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The Star Wars Conniption Fit Modus Operandi a la Cultists

#1 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:55 PM

True criticism, skepticism and satire are three things that seem to be missing from the minds of those who post on Chefelf boards, but more specifically in the Star Wars Fan Convention. What I see mostly here is arrogant smug put-offs by pretty much the whole "veteran" crowd. For the newbies, there is hope. Intelligent minded newbies have finally arrived, and their contributions are magnificent. As for the regular old folks, the situtuation is clear and obvious: this isn't your private little pissing ground anymore. With that said, on to the dead-center of this topic...


Star Wars has brainwashed a great many, with its poilitcal vagueness and its mythological nonsense, as well as its oversimplistic pseudoreligiosity. The only people I've noticed who remain clear headed about Star Wars are the younger ones who didn't see it in the theater when it first came out, and didn't obsess over it to a great degree in their childhoods, as many of us old folks did. Good for them, on the other hand, many younger filmgoers have fallen into the trap of forced nostalgia (just like that 60s crap that so many drug enthusiasts like to push on people these days)...Lining up for movies these days is no longer what it once was...anyway...those old fans who cling to their Obiwan Kenobi truisms like Bible Thumpers and the elitist gamers who gush about the technical stats of hyperdrives and Boba Fett weapons as well as the fantasy-freaks who drool on about Joseph Campbell and how George Lucas is like a prophetic mystic who somehow has gained gnosis and has imparted this divine knowledge to the masses: isn't it about time you all realized how you have been tricked?

You can enjoy whatever films you want, but this obsessed defending of the almighty Baron Papanoida and his holy writ is nothing less than cultish behavior.

Who am I referring to on these boards? The usual crowd, the ones who even today attempt to criticize Lucas for bad filmmaking and curse him for ruining their mystical fantasies which he originally gave them...yeah...I do mean you hofmarn, barend, jariten, jordan, and the rest...you have dissed your Sci-Fi Pope, but truly you are still the faithful, albeit schismatic, and you still hold in adoration, your Jedi Saints and the mystical foundations of which they so inspired you. You complain about the pseudoscience revisions of midichlorians and nitpick the new powers of the Force...but ultimately, its not about bad filmmaking, or true resentment for being hustled...its fundamentalism pure and simple.

That's right, you are FUNDAMENTALIST STAR WARS fans...you are still believers, and you know it. You hate the idea that Lucas could have imparted certain ugly fascistic idealogies in his "original" scriptures...and you can't see the truth contained in the New Star Wars Testament...so you blame these heresies on things like 'bad direction' and 'he sold out.' Perhaps it was there all along. Interesting to note that while you fundamentalists criticize your Pope and prophet, for his "new" sermons, you defend him against not merely claims of fascism, but also claims of plagiarism. I find this interesting.

Ladies, and Gentlemen, I find it fascinating to see just where your "criticism" is coming from, and how you still hold on to your cherished traditionalist doctrines and why you truly hate the Prequel Trilogy. Its not about how star wars really sucks at all, its about how your mystical obsessions were "contaminated" rendered "impure" by these new heretical ideas of the VERY creator of the shit you so reverently worshipped in the first place. The Force, Jedihood, Yoda's truisms, leaving home to find your way in the cosmos and fighting an evil empire, heroic and "mythological" underpinnings...for the others, the fascist uniforms and spaceships and guns of course...but neertheless this has all come apart for you I can tell, and not merely because you feel you have discovered "flaws" in your childhood cult, but because you fight against aparent heresies which seem to be usurping it...even if it is from the Lord baron himself...

Motivations ladies and gentlemen, tell more about a person than the drool flailing from his lips, or even the crowbar in his hands.

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 11 April 2005 - 02:00 PM

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#2 User is offline   rock_dash Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE (Hannibal @ Apr 11 2005, 10:55 AM)
Motivations ladies and gentlemen, tell more about a person than the drool flailing from his lips, or even the crowbar in his hands.


What about the drool on someone's hands, or the crowbar in thier lips? I think that would say a lot about a person. mellow.gif
I finally got a sig!

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Oh God, I had no idea! How can they keep it going? You mean, Return of the Children of the Corn etc? Children of the Corn 2? Children of the Corn and the Prisoner of Azkaban? I Know What You Did With The Children Of the Corn???? Yes, it's horrible!!!!
-Some guy on IMDB.com just finding out that there was more than one Children of the Corn movie
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#3 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 02:39 PM

Only if the crowbar was full of drool and their hands were touching their lips.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#4 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 06:51 PM

If there's merit in a person's perspective, let them prove it with a good argument. I hear what you're saying. It's kind of like the way I feel about the pope: the conservative old guard has had the pulpit for 25 years, those who disagreed with the pope have remained silent for decades because it's not worth the hastle.

Humbugs and nay sayers are fine, too. Though I find a lot of the people here share a certain point of view simply by being in this forum. It leads to comfort among friends. We can all listen to each other rant.

On the other hand, there have been lots of rants. Most of it to my amusement. Ha ha! I'm always up for a good fight, but the bickering becomes more of a cat fight to me. Kinda silly, by impossible to stop watching.

I think you made some very nice points Hannibal. Regardless of whether people have become fuddy duddies cherishing their youth, I think neither you nor I will let them get away with sophist or circular arguments. People can go to theforce.net for that. It's a silly, often hateful place where people's feelings get hurt when you basically argue that they're ignorant, prejudiced, unsophisticated, or just dumb.

These forums are supposed to be for the exp​ression of free speech. I think part of that means the freedom to express how sentimental, racist, fascist, dumb, intelligent, or nice we are. It's great we can say fuck, shit, and asshole without having to self-censor (sp?). Lousy arguments stand out on their own, and they're usually forgotten immediately. Great arguments stand out on their own as well.
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#5 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:07 PM

hehe satire is missing on these boards eh? I would ask you to go look in the screening room but frankly noone wants you there. Have a nice day! =)

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#6 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:09 PM

so wait a second, if we only accept the Old Testament of the OT and reject the New Testament of the PT....that means we bashers are really the Star Wars Jews?

Mazaltov Hannibal.
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#7 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE (Hannibal @ Apr 11 2005, 01:55 PM)
That's right, you are FUNDAMENTALIST STAR WARS fans...you are still believers, and you know it. You hate the idea that Lucas could have imparted certain ugly fascistic idealogies in his "original" scriptures...and you can't see the truth contained in the New Star Wars Testament...so you blame these heresies on things like 'bad direction' and 'he sold out.' Perhaps it was there all along. Interesting to note that while you fundamentalists criticize your Pope and prophet, for his "new" sermons, you defend him against not merely claims of fascism, but also claims of plagiarism. I find this interesting.


So you're saying we're the star wars Jews? laugh.gif

Again, however, i can't help but totally notice you have missed the point. For what i have been saying is that three films were made in my childhood that i enjoyed, that was the collective work of all involved. and what failings it may of had in it's day were easy to overlook, as the story wasn't too bad (being ripped off LOTR and all) and the characters were likable (even if, and especially, because they shot first).

the only things that 'mystifies' me is the GL was able to take any credit for the OT when what he produces on his own shows no real talent for substance, thus exposing him for the fraud he is...

for me this is about poor film making, and dropping the bar for everyone. So please refrain from ‘your’ lame theories about who any of us are. You are not in a position to make that claim.

that being said...

"True criticism, skepticism and satire are three things that seem to be missing from the minds of those who post on Chefelf boards"

Only from your posts...

Tell me, what is your definition of 'criticism', 'scepticism', and 'satire'?

criticism: n 1: disapproval expressed by pointing out faults or shortcomings; "the senator received severe criticism from his opponent" [syn: unfavorable judgment] 2: a serious examination and judgment of something; "constructive criticism is always appreciated" [syn: critique] 3: a written evaluation of a work of literature [syn: literary criticism]
scepticism: n : the disbelief in any claims of ultimate knowledge [syn: agnosticism, skepticism]
satire: n 1 : A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.2 The branch of literature constituting such works. See Synonyms at caricature. 3. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.


Where are those things found in the constant barrage of posts poorly attempting to synonymize George Lucas with Hinrich Himmler? Especially when using, as examples, the things that are vilified in the films themselves. It really does require a level of juvenile puerility so low it would make a twelve year old blush.

”you have dissed your Sci-Fi Pope, but truly you are still the faithful, albeit schismatic, and you still hold in adoration, your Jedi Saints and the mystical foundations of which they so inspired you. You complain about the pseudoscience revisions of midichlorians and nitpick the new powers of the Force...but ultimately, its not about bad filmmaking, or true resentment for being hustled...its fundamentalism pure and simple.”

It’s called: ‘being critical’
Now, you’ve already contradicted your own statement. But underneath all that infantile drivel I can see your point. You’re questioning our motivations. Good for you. As the paying public who ultimately finance films by paying to see them, who are we to question sequels, prequels, and special editions that destroy an enjoyable film we had once hoped to relax and watch in the comfort of our own home from time to time?

“Cultish” behaviour is not something I see too often here from the “old folk” here at chefelf.com…

“Cultish behaviour is the repetitive and ritualistic or habitual, compulsive need to revisit something ad nauseam. You know, like your Nazi threads…

”Its not about how star wars really sucks at all, its about how your mystical obsessions were "contaminated" rendered "impure" by these new heretical ideas of the VERY creator of the shit you so reverently worshipped in the first place. ”

Again, thankyou so much for trying to belittle us with your wonderfully unoriginal sentiments. But once more I must apologise for enjoying a space adventure film I watched as a child. What is the purpose of fiction if not to entertain, and encourage imagination? When I saw ‘Highlander’ I thought it was a fun little film… when I saw it’s sequel which horrifically undermined everything by changing what the story was about to excuse a sequel I was equally horrified. So I guess that makes me more a highlander cult freak than a film connoisseur…
Finally allow me to thank you once more for your entertaining attempt to be condescending to people who have the intellectual capacity to formulate real opinions and discussions without resorting to repetitive conspiracy theory recycling.
But, I must admit, this is the closest you have ever come to an original thought.

Should we vacate the “pissing grounds” for the next generation?
Honestly man, you are such a joke sometimes… I can’t believe you think you’re so hard hitting, on the edge, and revolutionary in your “ideas”.
You really can be full of shit sometimes. Please leave me out of your lame ass theories…

This post has been edited by barend: 11 April 2005 - 08:42 PM

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#8 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 09:49 PM

Ok, Because Barend made a valiant effort I'm going to attempt to do the same thing and for the umpteenth time actually try to act as though Hannibal adheres to some model of logical thought.

QUOTE
True criticism, skepticism and satire are three things that seem to be missing from the minds of those who post on Chefelf boards, but more specifically in the Star Wars Fan Convention.


We're all pretty critical of George Lucas. In fact criticizing him is what this board is pretty much about. Most of us are highly skeptical of you. And if you hadn't noticed there is an entire forum here largely devoted to satire. Satire, by the way, is not posting a picture of Steve Martin. It takes a bit more thought.

QUOTE
Intelligent minded newbies have finally arrived, and their contributions are magnificent. As for the regular old folks, the situtuation is clear and obvious: this isn't your private little pissing ground anymore.


Yes Hannibal! You must lead the younger generation in a heroic revolution against our fascist oppression! No longer should I be allowed to force people to ummm... ummm... help me out here? Your attempt to try to cause conflict between the new posters and the old regulars might actually have merit if there was any basis at all for such a conflict. I'm embarassed for both of us.

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You can enjoy whatever films you want, but this obsessed defending of the almighty Baron Papanoida and his holy writ is nothing less than cultish behavior.


No, cultish behavior is what would end up happening if people started listening to you. Namely a bunch of crazy asses in white robes trying to jump the fence at Skywalker ranch and hang George Lucas from a lamp post.

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you have dissed your Sci-Fi Pope, but truly you are still the faithful, albeit schismatic, and you still hold in adoration, your Jedi Saints and the mystical foundations of which they so inspired you.


THE NERVE OF PEOPLE! STAR WARS FANS HAVE NO BUSINESS COMING TO A STARWARS FORUM! WHAT CAN THE WORLD BE COMING TO!? EVERYONE KNOWS THAT STARWARS FORUMS ARE ONLY FOR THE DISCUSSION OF HEINRICH HIMMLER!

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you can't see the truth contained in the New Star Wars Testament


Havn't we Starwars Jews been persecuted enough? Or is that the whole idea? You're a fascist nazi budhist massage parlor. ADMIT IT! ADMIT IT!

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you defend him against not merely claims of fascism, but also claims of plagiarism. I find this interesting.


You accuse him with not merely claims of fascism, but also claims that he is Heinrick Himmler. I find this insane.

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Its not about how star wars really sucks at all


No, it's about how the OT were good films. And how some argue that the PT are good as well. This is a board where some people who like apples discuss reasons why we like apples and debate with people who like oranges. And all of a sudden you pop up and start screaming "TEH APPLES AND ORANGES ARE GROWED BY TEH HIMMLER!!!!11111" That's just not cool...

QUOTE
Motivations ladies and gentlemen, tell more about a person than the drool flailing from his lips, or even the crowbar in his hands.


Yes, much as our motivations are to discuss Star Wars in an intelligent fasion yours seem to be to beat people with a crowbar until they agree with whatever craziness you spew forth from your drool flailing lips.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#9 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 10:45 PM

mmmmmmmmmm .... apples.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#10 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:37 PM

No Apples in the Vending Machine, Please.
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#11 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:42 PM

i still can't get over the fact that we're jews! kick ass!
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#12 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:45 PM

We're Jews
We're Jews in spaaa-ace
always on guard
defending the Hebrew race!

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#13 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 12:12 AM

first we're nazis, now we're jews... laugh.gif
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