[snaithbert]

For my money the trailers have ALL been amazing and breathtaking, etc.

It's just the movies themselves that suck.

Maybe Lucas should just make the trailers, not the actual movies.

I remember being amazed by the Episode 1 trailer, then the movie itself blew. I was skeptical about Episode 2 after that, but the trailer was so cool that I decided to give it a shot. Big mistake, it blew as well.

Now I see the Episode 3 trailer and I think "damn that looks good" except by now I know that no matter how good the trailer looks- the movie will suck. I can't help getting excited when I watch the trailer, but still I know the movie will be bad.

One reason I know this (beside the obvious reason, which is that George Lucas is involved) is because I read part of the Episode 3 illustrated screenplay and boy was it bad. It reads like an instruction manual, so dry and colorless. Basically putting the information out there in the most clinical, uninteresting way. I knew Lucas was a bad writer but damn- he's outdone himself this time around. The part I read (basically it was as much as I could stand) was just so bland. You might as well be reading the phonebook. Yeah, it'll be better when you're actually watching the movie, but still, the story and dialogue should still hold my interest. I've read scripts that I couldn't put down, but this one I couldn't wait to drop. That should NOT be the case for a Star Wars movie. Not by a long shot.

Also I'm getting sick and tired of hearing Obi Wan give advice to Anakin. That's all he ever does in the PT, is lecture Anakin. No wonder Anakin goes to the dark side. I'd go too if someone was constantly nagging me. All Obi Wan ever does is solve very lame mysteries and say stuff like "be mindful of your feelings, Anakin." I guess the idea is that Lucas is trying to illustrate the point that Anakin fell to the dark side because he didn't listen to Obi Wan, but still- we get it. Enough with the lectures, it's getting old already. Lucas took the coolest movie character of all time and turned him into a crusty old professor from "The Paper Chase" or some such film. I'm surprised Obi Wan doesn't wear bifocals and a tweed suit and talk about how back in his day, Jedi respected their elders and movies were two for a nickle and you got a newsreel and cartoon, etc.

Lastly I wish Lucas would lay off the holograms. Those were cool back in the original movie, but in the PT everyone is sending everyone else holograms, left and right. It's Lucas' way of keeping something special effectly on the screen at all times. Any time anyone communicates with anyone, it's via hologram. A little of that goes a looooong way. People walk along with holograms, have them on their dashboards, they sit in at meetings of the Jedi council, etc. Just once I'd like to see someone pick up the space phone and just contact people that way, as opposed to sending a hologram. But I guess that's just Lucas' way- if something worked once in a limited capacity, it'll work even better when you use it every 15 seconds, especially where it's not necessary, etc.

Yeesh.

I just hope Lucas' kids make better Star Wars movies than he did.

Don't think for a second there won't be any more.

Greed and pride are the reasons the PT exists.

And greed and pride won't die just because George Lucas does.

If anything- they'll get stronger.

[J m HofMarN]

You know Holograms to me are just really stupid. I mean can you imagine someone calling on holo-phone when you just got out of the shower? Sure it works well a few times in the OT but you're right it is overused in the PT.

I really wouldnt have a problem with Obi lecturing Anakin if what he said had any bearing at all. "Your thoughts betray you" "be mindful of your feelings." etc etc. It's all just pointless psychobabble meant to sound deep and mystical.

[snaithbert]

Well said, J m HofMarN.

The lecturing isn't so bad, it's what he's saying that sucks. Just mindless exp​ressions that mean nothing. Basically he might as well be saying "have a nice day," for all the insight he brings to the table.

It's a real dissapointment, because we learn nothing about Obi Wan Kenobi throughout the course of the PT. The only thing we learn is that he failed to keep Anakin from turning the dark side, etc. There's absolutely no character development, other than the addition of a beard in episode 2. Though I guess that's not terribly surprising coming from Lucas though. He's not big on character development, hence the way he showed Anakin's fall by just giving him a total personality transplant between episodes 1 and 2. He could have eased us along and shown us how Anakin transforms, but that'd be too much work (and frankly would probably be beyond Lucas' skill as a writer) so it's easier just to have Anakin suddenly be an a-hole and never explain WHY he changed, etc. What a waste. I wanna know more about these characters, but all Lucas shows us is what we already know (and he does it poorly, at that).

[thrawn]

Lets just wait till the movie comes out, then we'll decide if its crap or good, its pointless to criticise a film we havn't seen yet. I know we've been through this before with the last two films, but we've only got 44days to go, so hold that thought till it actually comes out. All there is now is hope, hope that maybe Lucas, still may be able to conjure something up to please us, may it even be a little.

This post has been edited by thrawn: 04 April 2005 - 10:57 PM

[J m HofMarN]

Snaithbert- I definately agree about the lack of characterization. Even when he does it by accident it just creates inconistency. For instance, Leia, who we imagine would be a lot like her mother, defies Han's attempts to win her heart just because he's a smuggler. However Amidala gives into Anakin's designs on her even though he's a murderer and not at all romantic. And Obi Wan somehow seems completely neutral on Anakin. They're not good friends and Obi Wan never shows that he's glad to be training Anakin, nor does he dislike Anakin and feel ashamed of him.

Thrawn- If this movie is going to be like the last ones we need to start attacking it early so that we wont have as much work to do later.

[Despondent]

I knew Lucas was a bad writer but damn- he's outdone himself this time around. The part I read (basically it was as much as I could stand) was just so bland. You might as well be reading the phonebook. I've read scripts that I couldn't put down, but this one I couldn't wait to drop.

Also I'm getting sick and tired of hearing Obi Wan give advice to Anakin. That's all he ever does in the PT, is lecture Anakin. No wonder Anakin goes to the dark side. Lucas took the coolest movie character of all time and turned him into a crusty old professor from "The Paper Chase".

Lastly I wish Lucas would lay off the holograms. Those were cool back in the original movie, but in the PT everyone is sending everyone else holograms, left and right.  it'll work even better when you use it every 15 seconds, especially where it's not necessary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Snaithbert. I needed that.

[snaithbert]

Thrawn- If this movie is going to be like the last ones we need to start attacking it early so that we wont have as much work to do later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, well said J m HofMarN.

Thrawn, believe me I want to like ROTS, but given Lucas' track record I doubt there's much hope. Also I see no harm in criticizing, especially since that's what the internet is for (that and downloading porn of course). And anyhow this is what Lucas wants- he wants us talking and discussing and getting ourselves and others whipped up into a frenzy over the next month and a half. Sadly for him, most of the talk will be about how BAD the last film probably is, but if I know Lucas- any press is good press. So we're actually doing him a favor when we discuss his latest horrible movie. He oughta send us all free boxes of General Grevious cereal or a "Darth Slinky" or Count Dooku Radon Detection Kits or whatever the hell else they're shilling over at Lucasfilm today.

J m HofMarN, you're right about Amidala falling for Anakin, there's absolutely no believability there. I didn't even factor in the fact that Anakin's a murderer and Amidala has such high morals, but that's a damn good point. I was just thinking that Anakin's a dick and they have absolutely no onscreen chemistry at all. The only reason we the audience even care about them getting together is so Luke and Leia will be born. Lucas just doesn't know how to craft a story that draws the audience in, so we can't wait to see them end up together, etc. The end result is that when they do hook up, we don't care and there's absolutely no magic to it, the way there is when Han and Leia finally connect. Amidala and Anakin seem to have absolutely no business being together, they don't even seem to like each other all that much. Anakin may want to nail her, but beyond that they seem to have absolutely no connection. Which is why it's all the more bizarre when Amidala spouts that jazz about how she "really truly loves" Anakin, etc. Huh? Since when? That just came out of nowhere. And it's made even worse by the fact that NO ONE would ever say "I really truly love you." Yes they'd say "I love you" but the "really truly" part seems like Lucas' lame attempt to drive home their deep deep love without laying any of the ground work. I truly cringe when I hear Amidala deliver that line, because it really sounds like it was written by someone who has no idea what love is or how people in love talk. Maybe that's what Lucas would like someone to say to him, because he heard it said in a movie when he was growing up, etc. Who knows. But one thing's for sure- it's a toss up as to which is worse, Lucas' bad storytelling or his equally bad dialogue. Both make the PT nearly unbearable at times and it looks like we're just gonna get more of the same with the final film.

God I wish Lucas would just focus on his one true talent.

Which of course is opening office parks for his 10 zillion employees.

In the world of opening office parks- he is a GOD.

P.S. Despondant- since it's tough to tell whether people are being sarcastic when they post, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you completely agree with me 100 percent and also that you think I'm a genius and also quite handsome. Thank you.

[J m HofMarN]

Snaithbert- What really gets me is the circumstances of them falling in love. With Han and Leiah we have two people who are unlikely to fall in love. This is because they come from different economic and social spheres, you see. With Anakin and Padme we have two people who are also unlikely to fall in love. This is because one of them is a small boy.

This of course brings us to the next problem. Whereas Han and Leiah make a habit of saving eachothers lives, (he helps get her out of the cell, she helps get him out of the corridor, she goes off after him when he's frozen in carbonite, etc etc) the thing seems a bit one sided with Padme, who just sits in a tower waving her arms and screaming "help help" while some guy who might as well be bluto is blowing up her country or chaining her to a pillar for no good reason. With Han and Leiah you have an almost playful game of one-upmanship that we can tell has some definate affection behind it. With Amidala and Anakin we have "aggressive negotiations"

The circumstances under which they confess their love are also important. Leia only tells Han because she's afraid he'll die. This is a very powerful moment and quite believable. Hell, I'D be tempted to tell Harrison Ford I loved him if he were about to be frozen forever and I'm not even gay. But in the PT we get Anakin admitting his creepy infatuation to someone on a cloudless meadow while they frolic in the grass.

Their history is also important. Han is slowly caught up in the rebellion and we can imagine he has a lot of time to get to know Leia and she can gradually realize that he's not a "scoundrel". But in the PT we go from "cute kid" to "someone who's soul I am in tormenting him" in just one movie. At the start of 2 Padme says something like "you'll always be the boy I knew on Tatooine" or some such nonsense. By the middle of the movie they're boinking like rabbits.

The other thing is the anticipation factor. When Han makes his first sarcastic comment to Leiah we know that there's something there, but we also know that Luke is the designated hero. There's a bit of suspense there and we're eager to see how it will play out. In the PT there is no suspense. in the first movie Anakin isn't even of age and in the second film we all know that (no matter how little they seem to attract eachother) they're going to hook up. Somehow.

[Despondent]

P.S. Despondent- since it's tough to tell whether people are being sarcastic when they post, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you completely agree with me 100 percent and also that you think I'm a genius and also quite handsome. Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I didn't highlight 100% of your post, now, did I?

But I did laugh out loud several times, as indicated , and wish you well.

[Mnesymone]

The romantic development comparison is one place where PT fails again - Han and Leia have the attraction of opposites, and you can see in Star Wars their almost instant dislike/witty repartee (which was actually funny - as distinct from "couldn't find a speeder I liked" - blasted möngrel dög!), then at the end they have their mutual respect, then you see a degree of fondness at the start of Empire - then love. Time passes - they get to know each other better, they realise that their both pretty hand in a tight spot, both have the rebellion, and you have the in hindsight vaguely disturbing but as you watch it interesting presence of Luke.
PT's you have girl meets boy... and girl actually does meet boy - and just because the boy says "are you an angel" and the girl says "but my caring for you will never stop" doesn't mean it would be actually plausible for them to fall in love. Then, ten years later, boy still hasn't gotten over her - becomes her bodyguard and in spite of this spends most of his time taking her out in the open where she can be horribly murthered by nasty Sith and riding on a flea - then he starts making googly-eyes at her, but the "I want to follow you home and eat you" variety of googly-eyes, and then he utters the immortal line:
"I hate sand - It's coarse, and sticks to your butt when you go to the beach, and it's so hard to get it out of my stupid Padawan do... not like you... You're all smooth and soft and schmoopy schmoopy schmoopy ooh kiss me I'm evil" (again stupid möngrel dög Lucas writing)

[BinarySunset]

Then, ten years later, boy still hasn't gotten over her - becomes her bodyguard and in spite of this spends most of his time taking her out in the open where she can be horribly murthered by nasty Sith and riding on a flea - then he starts making googly-eyes at her, but the "I want to follow you home and eat you" variety of googly-eyes, and then he utters the immortal line:
"I hate sand - It's coarse, and sticks to your butt when you go to the beach, and it's so hard to get it out of my stupid Padawan do... not like you... You're all smooth and soft and schmoopy schmoopy schmoopy ooh kiss me I'm evil" (again stupid möngrel dög Lucas writing)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mnesymone, I am LOLWTIME - and my 2 bosses are in the next office over and both doors are open. I could lose my job, but that is the best laugh. I needed it, too!

As for the topic: Ignoring Ep 1 - DONE! BTDT! Began ignoring it on May 30th 2002 when I emerged from the theatre after my "why the hell not, it can't be worse than Ep 1" viewing of AOTC. I went into that with NO expectations - wouldn't allow myself to have any. And, despite the " 'I want to follow you home and eat you' variety of googly-eyes" [that is CLASSIC, btw ] I came away with less anger and disappointment than with Ep 1.

So on that day, Ep 1 "was dead to me". I don't own a copy of it in any form. My poor mother thought she was doing something nice when she bought the vhs of it. I hugged her and said, "there's still good in you; the emperor hasn't driven it from you fully". But that vhs resides at my parents' home, NOT mine.

I mentioned on another thread here, just recently, that my version of this saga is 5 Episodes (I guess I should add: this is presuming Ep III is halfway decent and not another total disappointment).

That's my 5 cents worth and I'm stickin' to it

[StarWarsIsUs]

Good idea. I hate TPM with a firery passion.

[BinarySunset]

Wordy McWord to the word (tm TWoP boards)

I'm with you all the way StarWarsIsUs! We'll have our own 5-movie marathon in about 18 months or so, 'kay?

[StarWarsIsUs]

I burst out laughing when you said:

I'm surprised Obi Wan doesn't wear bifocals and a tweed suit and talk about how back in his day, Jedi respected their elders and movies were two for a nickle and you got a newsreel and cartoon, etc.

I seriously had a good laugh! Thanks

[Mnesymone]

Nice to see a few laughs...
Not just Ep I - both prequels thus far are dead to me, at lest clinically.
If I had to edit the existing footage there wouldn't be much left.

I had the idea that since they were both very bad, massive changes would be required to transform them from bad movies to good - but only one change would be required to change it - for guys at least - from a bad movie to an enjoyable bad movie...
Change Anakin Skywalker's casting from Hayden Christensen to Keira Knightley.
It wouldn't improve the dialogue, or the deliveries, or make the romance more convincing - but nevertheless, it would make it more enjoyable.

And Binary - if Episode I died when you saw Ep II, is there a chance that Ep II will die when you see Sith?