[Despondent]

I was looking for some info on the Wagner opera series: The Ring of the Niebelung. It's a powerful and deep story with some haunting music, sets, costumes and the like. All the stuff Lucas would trade for a green screen and his own genius.

Anyway, I was surprised to see on an official Wagner homepage mind you, A comparison between the 16 hour opera series and our once-favorite sequence of films. It's kinda lengthy, and I thought I was over my head when it compares musical themes, but you can click and play them. Here's the link, opera fans:

Star Wars and Wagner's Ring




then the author at the end of it all trashes the PT as I wish I might have



[1] This article disregards the most recent additions to the Star Wars series, Episode I, The Phantom Menace and Episode II, Attack of the Clones. As far as connections between the films and the Ring, Episode I and Episode II seem not to add anything of significance. In fact, in certain regards, these two episodes even detract from the overall mythical significance of the Star Wars series. An example of this is Jabba the Hutt, who in Episode I is seen together with a smaller Hutt, seemingly his wife. This collides with the more mythical (although less "physiological") depiction of Jabba in The Return of the Jedi, where he keeps the almost naked Leia seemingly as a concubine or sexual plaything. Neither will the added focus on political intrigue in the two "first" episodes on the part of the evil forces seem to confirm the mythical aspects of the original Star Wars trilogy, rather the opposite. Finally, the "mechanization" of the robots as well as the storm troopers (replaced by clones in Ep. II) reduces or even removes "mythical" aspects of these figures in these episodes. In the original trilogy, R2D2 and 3CPO are all but the only robots of importance, and of course they both behave more like persons than what we normally would expect of robots in this sort of film. In Ep. I and II there are thousands and thousands of really mechanical robots with practially nil personality. A parallel: The storm troopers of the original trilogy are easily perceived as figures manifesting real evil, while the clones of Ep. II are mere puppets with seemingly no inherent morality or even personality - they merely obey whomever should order them around.

[Chefelf]

(I split Hannibal's off-topic Anti-Semitism rant into a separate topic here: http://www.chefelf.c...?showtopic=1764 )

Regarding the topic at hand...

Those are some extremely interesteing points, particularly about Jabba's lady friend in TPM. However, that scene is stupid without excessive analysis as it apparently features a Hutt wearing lipstick. Why not just give her a pink bow to indicate that it's a girl?

[Despondent]

Why not just give her a pink bow to indicate that it's a girl?

My parents taped a bow on my older sister's bald, infant head I am told.

--

Re: Anti Semitism, I really wasn't aware of it. I just liked the grand scale of the work. Maybe I'd heard Hitler was a fan, but I'm sure he'd of liked the internet also.

I thought it interesting comparing the DS to the Ring, and other points. Searching further there's a page comparing the operas to the Tolkien work. There's a lot of bs, half proven points and then a resolution: there really is no comparison. Nice some can accept things for what they are. (e'en so, for the record: I love Jariten's posts!)

[jariten]

well heres another one for ya...

An example of this is Jabba the Hutt, who in Episode I is seen together with a smaller Hutt, seemingly his wife. This collides with the more mythical (although less "physiological") depiction of Jabba in The Return of the Jedi, where he keeps the almost naked Leia seemingly as a concubine or sexual plaything

no. Gardulla is just another Hutt, as in "my mom and I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt but she lost this betting on the pod races". at what point does it suggest the two Hutts are married? nowhere. i love it when critics invent things to justify their attacks.

Neither will the added focus on political intrigue in the two "first" episodes on the part of the evil forces seem to confirm the mythical aspects of the original Star Wars trilogy, rather the opposite.

she might explain why. if only she could I suppose.

In Ep. I and II there are thousands and thousands of really mechanical robots with practially nil personality.

this is just wrong. there are faceless droids and 'personality droids' in both trilogies.

A parallel: The storm troopers of the original trilogy are easily perceived as figures manifesting real evil, while the clones of Ep. II are mere puppets with seemingly no inherent morality or even personality - they merely obey whomever should order them around.

which is exactly like the stormtroopers!! i'm totally bemused. if theres a point to Evensens prequel criticisms, perhaps someone here can fill me in.

This post has been edited by jariten: 03 November 2004 - 11:48 AM

[Despondent]

I thought the point (a sidebar to the article, incidentally. A parting shot, I suppose,) was that the Prequels don't measure up to the mythical quality of the OT.

If you honestly disagree with that, I don't pretend to believe that even the greatest Epic undertaking could persuade you to change your mind.

[jariten]

it isnt that, so much as she felt it was acceptable to attack the prequels on the basis of little to no evidence and poorly thought out ideas. its that kind of hack criticism which annoys me. if someone can show me (or even better, write) a decent article accusing Lucas of watering down the mythological aspects of Star wars for the prequels (which i think people make too much of with the OT anyway) i'll be happy to read it.

[Despondent]

Well maybe it's the possibility that Lucas got lucky with the OT, and then his luck ran out?

That's the way I see it, and it's a strongly held opinion that many can understand without further explanation.

[Hannibal]

[Hannibal]

'All democracies turn into dictatorships-but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea ... What kinds of things push people and institutions into this direction?'
--George Lucas

THE ANSWER:

Movies like STAR WARS that influence people.

[J m HofMarN]

That's funny, since there WERE no movies in the time of Napoleon and Caesar. By the way, when Barend said you should find an old thread to post all your mindless rambling in he meant you should use one of your insanity threads, not that you should dredge up a largely unadulterated topic (or one that you'd already tried to sidetrack) and sully it.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 11 April 2005 - 12:00 AM