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If George Lucas was poor would the PT be better?

#1 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:15 PM

I had this thought in another thread but thought the discussion might warrant a new topic. It occured to me that Lucas is depending on special effects, highly paid actors, and name recognition to make his films good.

Now granted we cant take the name recognition, but lets say that Lucas were only allowed to spend so much money on the PT. Do you think it would have changed things? The way I see it actors and special effects cost money, but a good story and great jobs by the actors involved dosnt cost a thing. With little money involved you either get a B movie or you get something out of left field that is stunning (OT)

The thing of it is, I think that Lucas might have done better with less funds. He'd have been forced to get a good director and producer to help draw out the good qualities of his actors, rather than just assuming that since he'd paid them so much that they would display their good qualities automatically. (I don't mean the kind of "qualities" padme was displaying.)

So what do you all think? Would they be OT quality or would they be low budget versions of the current PT?

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#2 User is offline   snaithbert Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:31 PM

I agree 1000 percent, J m HofMarN.

Not only would less money force Lucas to work harder, with less money Lucas wouldn't have turned out the way he did. With less money he'd be more like he used to be, i.e. in touch with audiences and making movies people can connect with. But his money has made him so insulated that there's just no way he could ever make a film that anyone but George Lucas would want to see. He's so out of touch with regular people that I find it laughable that he thinks he can make a film that regular people will connect with. His money guarantees that his lickspittle yes men will never be honest with him and always verify his twisted, incorrect opinions. Basically his wealth insures that he'll always be right and everyone else will always be wrong. His money insures that he doesn't NEED his audience, so why should he bother working to please them? Lucas just doesn't care about the people he's making his movies for- and it shows in his work. Sloppy, poorly written, poorly acted and full of special effects he probably assumes will distract people from the fact that the rest of the movies blow. If Lucas had a budget, or if someone else were footing the bill, there would be someone else there, someone who might actually stand a chance of making Lucas listen to reason, etc. But as it stands, he calls the shots. And the result is that his movies suffer greatly for it, because George Lucas lives in a fantasy land far more unbelievable than the Star Wars galaxy. In George Lucas-land, the new "Star Wars" movies are good. And if that ain't a fantasy- nothing is.
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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:56 PM

Exactly what snaithbert said. I can't think of anything to add at this point in time.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

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#4 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 09:42 PM

Of course!!!!

He was poor or going broke during SW (anh). And look how that turned out.

Money really is the root of all evil sad.gif Damn it Lucas, why couldn't you invest in Enron or some other stock like that. Or maybe just buy 90 million dollar magic beans, prior to making the PT.
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#5 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:10 PM

considering that a sock puppert would look better than Jar Jar...

yes i agree... money (and its close relatives; greed, apathy, etc) killed these films.

killed them to death!!!
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#6 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:30 PM

Agreed. thumbsup.gif
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#7 User is offline   littlejerryseinfeld Icon

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 07:47 PM

WRONG!

come one, everyone!

lucas is a cheap-ass filmmaker whether he's rich or not. his catch phrase is 'thats good enough'. he cuts corners wherever he can...

the reason he uses green screens and CGI are because they're CHEAPER!! trust me, if it was less expensive to use a puppet for yoda, he'd DO IT.

now, if he'd actually use some of his money to create some good sets, create some good puppets, and improve the makeup - that'd BE A GOOD THING. a better filmaker would use what he has to create a better movie.

lucas wants to get the maximum return on the minimum investment. and if you don't think that's how he operates... you are sorely mistaken.
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#8 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 12:23 AM

I think that's the thing of it. If he had less money to use on shiny things he'd have to make the plot and acting good in order for people to see his movie. Yes, he may want to save money, but give him so little money that he'd know that he couldnt sell the films on FX alone and he'd have to get people to with things that cannot be bought, such as creativity, vision and original ideas- all sadly lacking in the PT.

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- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#9 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 09:02 AM

Guys, I think the reason why GL used a CGI Yoda is because you can't make a Pupper fight very well. But you CAN make a CGI character do 'wonders'... like the amazing bouncing circus acrobat fighter who poses like a Kung Fu master at the age of 870 and passes away like nothing's happened in 30 years...
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#10 User is offline   Garth Vader Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 11:23 AM

to quote george, a million saved is a million earned.

he made the prequels so he wouldn't be finacially insecure, since his ex took somewhere between 35-50 million of his 100 million fortune in 1983. leaving him with the unstable and scant number of 50-60 million dollars, even though his merchandising and ILM company would make him even richer each coming year.
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#11 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 11:32 AM

Even if Lucas was forced to make these films on less, he still wouldn't be surrounded by the people who shaped and tempered his ideas into decent films.

I still think they'd be crap. Kasdan isn't involved, Marcia isn't involved, none of the original concept artists are involved, Kurtz, Katz, Kershner... all gone. Many of the original modelers, effects guys save for Muren are gone.

PT would've been flawed no matter what.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 31 March 2005 - 11:42 AM

Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#12 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 12:10 PM

I have to agree with those who said no. It would look more like the OT, it would have more of an OT feel to it overall, but the fact is Lucas wanted to do the writing and directing by himself on these prequel trilogies, and we saw what happened with the OT movie he had the most influence on. It's not a matter of wether he tries hard to make better characters or a better plot. He's incapable of that feat without help from talented people. He has a grand vision for Star Wars, and in the technical department he is a genius, but he can't write dialogue, characters or plot worth spit

This post has been edited by Michel Orla: 31 March 2005 - 12:12 PM

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#13 User is offline   snaithbert Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 02:18 PM

Yeeeeeeah, but I think the thing here is that if Lucas were poor, he wouldn't be the man he is today and thus the overall effect would be better movies.

Lucas' money has bought him the right to not need anyone's help, but the problem is that he DESPERATELY needs help. And his money has insured that anyone who IS helping him will just suck up and agree with whatever he says, even if they know (and some of them must) that Lucas is out of his mind and basically killing the saga.

But I think the real problem in all this is the mind of George Lucas. Because of his success, he's become convinced that he's the real genius behind Star Wars and that he alone can do what it took a lot of talented people to do on the original trilogy. He may be the guy who gave birth to Star Wars, but every fan knows that he turned the saga over to other people to help raise and nurture it. Now with his "second child," Lucas thinks that he's qualified to do it all himself. He can direct, he can write, etc. I think he assumes he MUST be able to do all that- after all, he's George Lucas!! But the problem is, these days the only person who thinks George Lucas is qualified to make Star Wars movies- is George Lucas. He's so deluded that he actually thinks he can do by himself everything he hired genuinely talented people to do 20 years ago. I think Lucas has basically bought into the hype that he's a brilliant storyteller who can do anything, as opposed to a good producer who had one decent idea (that other people mostly fleshed out). Yes he's the mind behind the saga and yes he's iconic in his way, but despite what he believes- he's not a good storyteller or director and no amount of special effects or box office take will change that.

If George had less money, he'd have to live in the real world. And in the real world, not one frame of the PT would ever have made it to the screen. In test screening number one, the negative comments would have demanded a retooling, etc. I'm not fan of studio suits coming in a taking movies away from directors, but god, if ever that was a good thing- this is that time. If Lucas had masters, people he answers to, the PT might not have been strangled in the cradle. Others could have stepped in and taken over, or at least give Lucas advice he couldn't just ignore. But sadly Lucas' money insures that he will NEVER have to listen to anyone but himself.

Maybe if Lucas was a little hungrier and a little more in the real world- he'd have incentive to try harder, to please someone besides himself. But he lives in a dream world where the only person that matters is George Lucas. He stopped caring about the fans of his movies a loooooooong time ago, if he ever did. He's making these movies for George Lucas and George Lucas alone. I guess these are the films HE'D like to see. Sadly for us, there's not the films anyone else wants to see.

Lastly, Paladin makes a VERY good point about Yoda being a friggin' ninja and then 30 years later being grandpa on his deathbed, etc. I never even thought about that. Nice work, Lucas!
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#14 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 02:55 PM

SW got him into orbit. OT took him to the moon.

back in orbit, Lucas gets provisions sent up at his command. (This year's re-release for example)

sure everything (inc. PT) looks pretty TO HIM. Delusional b@stard.

But he will never come back to earth.
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#15 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (snaithbert @ Mar 31 2005, 02:18 PM)
Yeeeeeeah, but I think the thing here is that if Lucas were poor, he wouldn't be the man he is today and thus the overall effect would be better movies.

Lucas' money has bought him the right to not need anyone's help, but the problem is that he DESPERATELY needs help. And his money has insured that anyone who IS helping him will just suck up and agree with whatever he says, even if they know (and some of them must) that Lucas is out of his mind and basically killing the saga.

But I think the real problem in all this is the mind of George Lucas. Because of his success, he's become convinced that he's the real genius behind Star Wars and that he alone can do what it took a lot of talented people to do on the original trilogy. He may be the guy who gave birth to Star Wars, but every fan knows that he turned the saga over to other people to help raise and nurture it. Now with his "second child," Lucas thinks that he's qualified to do it all himself. He can direct, he can write, etc. I think he assumes he MUST be able to do all that- after all, he's George Lucas!!  But the problem is, these days the only person who thinks George Lucas is qualified to make Star Wars movies- is George Lucas. He's so deluded that he actually thinks he can do by himself everything he hired genuinely talented people to do 20 years ago. I think Lucas has basically bought into the hype that he's a brilliant storyteller who can do anything, as opposed to a good producer who had one decent idea (that other people mostly fleshed out). Yes he's the mind behind the saga and yes he's iconic in his way, but despite what he believes- he's not a good storyteller or director and no amount of special effects or box office take will change that.

If George had less money, he'd have to live in the real world. And in the real world, not one frame of the PT would ever have made it to the screen. In test screening number one, the negative comments would have demanded a retooling, etc. I'm not fan of studio suits coming in a taking movies away from directors, but god, if ever that was a good thing- this is that time. If Lucas had masters, people he answers to, the PT might not have been strangled in the cradle. Others could have stepped in and taken over, or at least give Lucas advice he couldn't just ignore. But sadly Lucas' money insures that he will NEVER have to listen to anyone but himself.

Maybe if Lucas was a little hungrier and a little more in the real world- he'd have incentive to try harder, to please someone besides himself. But he lives in a dream world where the only person that matters is George Lucas. He stopped caring about the fans of his movies a loooooooong time ago, if he ever did. He's making these movies for George Lucas and George Lucas alone. I guess these are the films HE'D like to see. Sadly for us, there's not the films anyone else wants to see.

Lastly, Paladin makes a VERY good point about Yoda being a friggin' ninja and then 30 years later being grandpa on his deathbed, etc. I never even thought about that. Nice work, Lucas!


I also doesn't help he has a legion of gushers telling him he can't do anything wrong. Seriously, they act like he's a God who can do no wrong, when he has nothing but comtempt for what Star Wars fans think (unless it makes him more money Eg Boba Fet get's more screentime). Its a joke

This post has been edited by Michel Orla: 31 March 2005 - 03:48 PM

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