[jariten]

Well, you used the word "kiddie", I used the word "children". Star Wars was written with a 10-15 year old boy fanbase in mind. Now then, that doesn't mean that younger or older people can't enjoy, or didnt enjoy these films, but the fact remains that it just wasn't written for them. Lucas knows that little kids, younger than his intended audience might want to watch Star Wars too, hence his "warnings" (a.k.a publicity) for Revenge of the Sith. Lucas has never ignored any fancase, hes always just written for the same one. This was the plan all along. Thats the obvious heart of Star Wars that all the "Lucas raped my childhood!" dorks (amusingly) failed to realise.

You were surprised that Maul was used as a marketing strategy which was disproportianal to the amount of screen time he got? That does seem a bit naive. Perhaps you're right, but at least Lucas has never tried to twist SW into something its not (unlike Kurtz).

[barend]

Perhaps you're right, but at least Lucas has never tried to twist SW into something its not (unlike Kurtz).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

who tried to make it something good!

[Despondent]

A 10-15 year-old mindset would be acceptable. A PG-13 rating (mean demographic) would be a nice consolation.

When I was 10-15 and SW came out, it was adult enough for me. I certainly didn't need Salcious P. Crumb and the path to which he was pointing.

(unlike Kurtz).

who tried to make it something good!

Lucas: do or do not. "Exact words, Greg."

[barend]

Raiders of the lost ark was a great film when i was a kid...

you see heads melt, alot of corpses with snakes crawling in and out of them, a poisoned moinkey, a group of soldiers tazered to death by god, people blown up, diced by a propeller, etc.

if kids today need to be protected from a good guy killing a bad guy before the bad guy gets a chance to off him but after saying he's going to kill him...

then the kids of today can get fucked!!!

a G rated film about a bunch of guys who can choke people with thier minds and slice people open with energy swords is a pretty fucking lame project... when you think about it.

there's no kiddy bullshit in LOTR, but it's really popular with the kiddies...

George Lucas, like him or not, underestemates children to an appallingly boring extent...

[Just another wretched fan]

jariten, you will never be able to avoid the fact that TPM and AOTC were terrible, terrible, movies.

Also, how can you claim to be an expert on what GL was thinking. His quotes constantly contradict each other, anyway. The dude is a mess.

And yes, if its any consolation, when i first saw the OT, ESB scared me and i loved ROTJ. I thought the ewoks were cool...but I was 7 or 8 and I grew out of them fast. Now i love ESB and think ROTJ was 50/50 lame/brilliant.

My bottom line though is that yes, you may scare really young kids with an ESB, but you annoy adults with the bad parts of ROTJ and all of the PT.

ANH is just unique in how it hits the sweet spot between the generations perfectly.

[barend]

exactly

[jariten]

jariten, you will never be able to avoid the fact that TPM and AOTC were terrible, terrible, movies.

And it seems like you'll never be able to comprehend (or accept) the fact that millions of people like the prequels.

Also, how can you claim to be an expert on what GL was thinking

well we shared a couple of drinks, then one thing led to another...you know how it is.

[ernesttomlinson]

Millions of people like Barbara Cartland, too. What's your point?

[jariten]

Millions of people like Barbara Cartland, too.  What's your point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was that millions of people like the prequels. If you'd like me to repeat it for a third time, you've only to ask.

[snaithbert]

Gentlemen, forget it.

You're never going to convince Jariten that the PT is utter garbage.

Especially since he's got that built in excuse that all PT supporters fall back on, which is to say that people who hate the PT are "Star Wars dorks" who feel they're having their childhood raped, etc.

Man, that excuse is so old, it's got whiskers.

Yeah, I love Star Wars, but my dislike to the PT has nothing to do with my feeling that Lucas shit all over my childhood. Um, I did a lot more during my childhood than watch 3 movies.

It's possible (just maybe) that the reason we hate the PT is simply because they're bad movies. No matter WHAT generation you're from, you're still allowed to be critical of movies that suck. No matter who Lucas intented these new films for- they're just plain bad. Lucky for him that the majority of the "millions of people who love the PT" (according to Jariten) are under 10 years old and don't read movie reviews or care about the opinions of those who do.

In any case, I'm getting tired of hearing PT lovers claim that anyone (over 10) who hates the PT is just stuck in the 70's, etc. It's almost as lame as hearing people who hate the PT say that anyone who loves it is just a George Lucas zombie who loves anything he does, etc.

I have to admit that it's entirely possible that people might actually LIKE the PT.

I'd say they're utterly out of their minds and that history will prove them very incorrect, but in the meantime- they're entitled to their opinions.

[jariten]

That wasn't my argument at all, if you want to read my post again.

I was referring to the way that KURTZ twists Star Wars into something it isn't, which is then used as proof that Lucas has lost it etc. I maintain that Lucas has always had one audience in mind, thats all.

The "Lucas raped my childhood!" mob (I read that again and again after TPM was released) was the sound of a lot of adults suddenly waking up to that fact. At any rate, I wouldnt lump anyone from these boards in with them, i've heard plenty of logical and interesting arguments as to why you lot dont like the PT. Some I agree with, some I don't.

Just dont expect me to take a comment like "face it Jariten, the prequels suck and you know it!" seriously.

[snaithbert]

I was referring to the way that KURTZ twists Star Wars into something it isn't, which is then used as proof that Lucas has lost it etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm.

Well okay then.

Allow me to restate my position on this.

I think a LOT more people like Kurtz's twisted take on Star Wars than Lucas' straight one.

Because when Kurtz was on board the movies were good.

And when he left- they sucked.

Maybe Kurtz's take on the movies isn't "real" Star Wars, but I'll take Kurtz's unreal Star Wars over Lucas' "real" Star Wars any day of the week.

Real or not- Kurtz's Star Wars is entertaining.

Lucas' is just a big mess.

[jariten]

I think ESB was in line with Lucas' game plan. I was really refering to the post-SW Kurtz, the man who spouts nonsense like "Han was supposed to die in Jedi" (italics my own) and "the Emperor wasn't supposed to appear until the ninth one" (same again). His real goal is to wrestle all the glory away from Lucas, who has become an easy target for the aged 30-plus "Star Wars is a complex, dark adult drama dont you know" SFX magazine editors. He's also part of a gradual repackaging of Star Wars over the years. Somehow its gone from being a throwaway, knockabout space fantasy for kids into some form of Serious Cinema. Bleh.

I can't wait for the day that one of your kids is watching the OT and says "you know, what this one needs is Jar Jar".

[CowboyCurtis]

I was referring to the way that KURTZ twists Star Wars into something it isn't, which is then used as proof that Lucas has lost it etc. I maintain that Lucas has always had one audience in mind, thats all.

I don't believe for a second that Kurtz is 'manipulating' the thought on Star Wars---the question is WHY would he do that!? Everything he had said about the original ideas for say, ROTJ, were all LUCAS' IDEAS!!! The question shouldn't be why is Kurtz manipulating (which he ISN'T--you make it sound like a bloody conspiracy!), but WHY did Lucas change his mind on these far more fascinating ideas---IDEAS THAT WERE HIS!!!!<<<<HIS!!

And if anyone can deny or manipulate that sort of information, it's the one who holds the cards---Lucas.

I can't wait for the day that one of your kids is watching the OT and says "you know, what this one needs is Jar Jar".

Oh, god, help us all. Well, I will raise my kids not to be that stupid. It's like saying, "Hey, you know what Godfather could use---Barney."

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 28 March 2005 - 05:24 PM

[snaithbert]

I can't wait for the day that one of your kids is watching the OT and says "you know, what this one needs is Jar Jar".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So basically you're assuming my kids will be complete idiots then.

Actually I like to think that I'd have the kind of kid who would say "daddy, demographically speaking, the OT could use some poorly written, stereotypical, ethnically insulting, one dimensional characters that basically serve as nothing more than cheap marketing ploys to sell toys to customers who are too young to realize they're being played for chumps."

Jariten, you seem like a nice enough bloke, but you really do sound like a typical Lucas apologist sometimes. When people say the films aren't mature enough, you say "they're not supposed to be." When people say adults can't enjoy the PT, you say "well they're for kids." Basically your counter to every arguement is that this is George's vision and not the vision of the kids who grew up with the OT, etc.

I don't think anyone's disputing the fact that Mr. Lucas calls the shots on the franchise. Or that it's NOT a dark, adult drama, but rather a silly, insignificant waste of time (these days anyhow). I think what me and my fellow 30 something's feel bad about is what Star Wars COULD have been. Especially considering the direction it was headed in 1981. Lucas took a "knockabout space fantasy for kids" and turned into something that appealed to everyone, young and old. It transcended it's silly origins and became something special and unique, without ever forgetting where it came from.

And then in 1999, Lucas reversed all that- and then some. He turned the films back into silly saturday morning serials, except this time he removed all the heart and and soul and replaced it with bland, boring characters and uninteresting situations. Everything grinds to a halt when there's no special effects and when there ARE special effects- somehow it's even worse. The OT brought genuine humanity to those dumb, "knockabout" movies, but the PT stripped away all the humanity and exposed the saga for what it really is- a giant marketing ploy to rob 9 year old kids of their candy money.

In any case, since you're tired of hearing us whine about what Star Wars is "supposed" to be, allow me to tell you what it IS- a total waste of time.

And I bet I could find some people UNDER thirty who feel the same way.