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How to Change Your Government And not have a war or kill a million?

#1 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE
Kyrgyzstan Gov't Collapses After Protest
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Mar 24, 4:50 PM (ET)

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA

(AP) A Kyrgyz man shouts anti-President Askar Akayev slogans as he and other opposition protesters rally...
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BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan (AP) - President Askar Akayev's government collapsed Thursday after opposition protesters took over the presidential compound and government offices, throwing computers and air conditioners out of windows in a frenzy of anger over corruption and a disputed election.

The popular uprising in this impoverished Central Asian nation of 5 million forced Akayev to flee, was breathtaking in its speed and resulted in only a few dozen injured. The government was the third in a former Soviet republic - after Georgia and Ukraine - to be brought down by people power over the past year and a half.

One immediate challenge for the new rulers was rampant looting in government buildings and shops in the capital, Bishkek.

Whooping and whistling protesters took over the Soviet-era presidential headquarters, and groups of them took turns sitting in Akayev's chair. Outside, people tore up portraits of Akayev and stomped on them.

"It's not the opposition that has seized power, it's the people who have taken power. The people. They have been fighting for so long against corruption, against that (Akayev) family," said opposition activist Ulan Shambetov, one of the protesters who sat in the president's chair.

The upper house of the parliament that held power before a disputed election met Thursday night and elected a former opposition lawmaker, Ishenbai Kadyrbekov, as interim president until a new presidential vote, perhaps as early as May or June.

Two prominent opposition leaders, Kurmanbek Bakiyev and Felix Kulov, were named to top posts in an interim government, lawmakers said. The lower House of parliament early Friday appointed Bakiyev acting prime minister, and the upper House tapped Kulov, who was released from prison Thursday, to take charge of all law enforcement agencies.

The whereabouts of the 60-year-old Akayev - who had led Kyrgyzstan since 1990, before it gained independence in the Soviet collapse - were not known. U.S. officials said they could not confirm reports by the opposition and Russian news agencies that he had left the country.

The takeover of government buildings and state television in Bishkek followed similar seizures by opposition activists in the impoverished southern region, including the nation's second-largest city, Osh. Those protests began even before the first round of parliamentary elections Feb. 27 and swelled after March 13 run-offs that the opposition said were seriously flawed.

Politics in Kyrgyzstan depends as much on clan ties as on ideology, and the fractious opposition has unified around calls for more democracy, an end to poverty and corruption, and a desire to oust Akayev.

There was no sign the new leadership would change policy toward the West or Russia. Unlike the revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine, foreign policy has not been an issue.

Both the United States and Russia have military bases near Bishkek. About 1,000 U.S. troops are stationed at Manas air base outside the capital. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Thursday he didn't believe they would be adversely affected by the turmoil.

Kyrgyzstan's role as a conduit for drugs and a potential hotbed of Islamic extremism, particularly in the south, makes it volatile. There is no indication, however, that the opposition would be more amenable to Islamic fundamentalist influence than Akayev's government has been.

"The future of Kyrgyzstan should be decided by the people of Kyrgyzstan, consistent with the principles of peaceful change, of dialogue and respect for the rule of law," U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said.

Neighboring regimes in Central Asia studiously ignored Thursday's uprising but their opposition parties were jubilant, hoping the seeds of democratic change had been sown in the region. After the "Rose Revolution" in Georgia in 2003 and the "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine last year, authorities have been increasingly nervous about their grip on power.

The takeover in Kyrgyzstan began with a rally Thursday morning on the outskirts of Bishkek, where about 5,000 protesters roared and clapped when Bakiyev said they soon would control the entire country.

Interior Minister Keneshbek Dushebayev urged demonstrators to obey the law, but he said no force would be used against peaceful protesters.

About 1,000 people surged toward the building housing Akayev's offices, meeting little resistance from helmeted riot police standing next to a protective fence with truncheons and shields. About half the crowd entered through the front. Others smashed windows with stones.

Some demonstrators were injured during a clash with a group of truncheon-wielding men in civilian clothes and blue armbands - the color of Akayev's party. One protester had a serious head injury and a broken leg, and another had broken ribs, said Iskander Shamshiyev, leader of the opposition Youth Movement of Kyrgyzstan.

Vincent Lusser, a Red Cross spokesman in Geneva, said its staff saw "a few dozen wounded" in Bishkek hospitals - most with injuries from falls or fist-fights.

Hundreds of police watched from outside the fence, where thousands more protesters remained. Neither side visibly carried firearms.

Officials left through a side door, protected by Interior Ministry troops. Some camouflage-clad troops also left peacefully.

Many demonstrators wore pink or yellow headbands signifying their loyalty to the opposition - reminiscent of the orange worn by protesters who helped elect a pro-Western president in Ukraine and the rose hues worn in the Georgian revolution.

At one point, a protester charged through the square on horseback, a yellow opposition flag waving, and protesters chanted, "Akayev, go!"

Dozens of youths rampaged inside the building, some smashing furniture and looting supplies, ignoring protest organizers who urged them to stop. Broken glass littered the floors and a drugstore in the building was ransacked.

"It's the victory of the people. But now we don't know how to stop these young guys," said Noman Akabayev, an unsuccessful legislative candidate.

Several hours after the takeover, thick plumes of black smoke rose from two burning cars nearby.

After nightfall, thousands milled peacefully in Ala-Too Square outside the presidential headquarters, occasionally breaking into cheers. A large store on a main street was looted, with mostly young men carting out crates of food, juice and cookies, as well as mattresses, mirrors and coat hangers.

"You have to understand, people are living in poverty," Kulov said.

Kulov's release from prison could be a key element in unifying the opposition, which until now has lacked a single clear leader.

He had been serving 10 years for embezzlement and abuse of power - charges he says were fabricated by the Akayev regime. A former vice president, interior minister and mayor of Bishkek, Kulov was arrested after announcing his candidacy for president in 2000.

"It is a revolution made by the people," Kulov said on state television, adding, "Tomorrow will come, and we must decide how to live tomorrow."

Akayev was long regarded as a reform-minded leader, but in recent years he turned more authoritarian. In 2002, his reputation was tarnished after police killed six demonstrators protesting the arrest of an opposition lawmaker.

"I am very happy because for 15 years we've been seeing the same ugly face that has been shamelessly smiling at us," said Abdikasim Kamalov, holding a red Kyrgyz flag outside the presidential building. "We could no longer tolerate this. We want changes."

On Thursday night, thousands stayed on the main square outside the presidential headquarters. An elderly man and woman in a clearing in the crowd danced to imaginary music as a man pretended to beat drums.

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
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#2 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:01 PM

Get the people's suffering to outweigh their fear of authoritarian rule and then revolt... Yep, it's the standard way it happens.
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#3 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:06 PM

Well, yeah, that works very well if there actually is a national dissatisfaction with the governmnent and if the government is as small as that of Krygzstan. Revolution in the US would be a far different affair.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#4 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:07 PM

Given my new position as head forum nazi bestowed upon me by Hannibal, I feel that I should comment on this article. Previously I felt that there was no way it could possibly be debate worthy but I've given up some though and come up with a thesis.

My theory: Kyrgztan sucks.

Quote

I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#5 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:38 PM

That would just be like the fascist consumerist whore hypocrite jewish bmw conformist dishwasher you are.

Kyrgyzstan excersized its right of nature to overthrow a government that did not meet any needs but those running the state. For that they must be applauded and assisted by the international community in retaining soverignty.
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#6 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:42 PM

I counter your argument with the Hannibal defense: You are wrong. Admit it! Admit it! You are! Fuckin hippie! Admit it! Who does number two work for!? Who... Does... Number Two Work For?

Kyrgyzstan is hard to spell, and therefore full of terrorists. Admit it! Admit it!

Quote

I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#7 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:46 PM

fine. I admit it. I am a hippie. I support peace, love, and tolerance of all human beings by all human beings. I hug trees and I also fuck squirrels on Tuesdays. Are you happy?

At least I'm not a fucking hypocrite like you.
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#8 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:51 PM

Stop making fun of me! Just because my only debate tactic is to either call you a nazi or demand that you admit to... something dosnt mean you get to satirize me! And another thing, you're a nazi.

You know why? Because you're supporting Kyrgyzstan. Loook at the article! It's all there if you read it with the right slant!

QUOTE
Dozens of youths rampaged inside the building, some smashing furniture and looting supplies... Broken glass littered the floors and a drugstore in the building was ransacked.


Remind you of anything? Maybe the night the brown shirts broke into Jewish owned stores in Berlin? Nazi.

To quote Office Space: "The Nazis had pieces of flare, that they made the Jews wear."

Think about it, man.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#9 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:52 PM

You're clearly suffering from anti-social tendencies and a borderline personality disorder stemming from a disassociation with reality that exists due to the distance of internet forums to the people who post. I have no need to refute what little argument you put forth.
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#10 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:53 PM

to hell with both of you... where can i get one of those 'bmw conformist dishwashers'.

clean dishes with german engineering and none of the fuss?
count me in!!!
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#11 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:54 PM

woooooo! Booyah! I win! I do a dance of joy!

Quote

I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#12 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:55 PM

Heinrich Himmler gave me mine. I think Slade got his from George Lucas. You mean you dont own one yet?

Quote

I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#13 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:56 PM

i purchased mine from a guy who said that he stole it from Michael Jackson's Head-on-a-Chicken.
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#14 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:00 AM

Damn you, Slade, Michael-Jackson's-head-on-a-chicken always did like you better than me. I work ten times as hard as you in this conspiracy and I don't get half the props!

Quote

I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#15 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:02 AM

Hey, don't mention the you know what! Shut the fuck up.
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