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Rewrites Open Forum on the who/what/how/ifs

#1 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 08:51 PM

OK. the phrases "If I had done the PT..." and "I had thought the PT would have..." are common phrases on this site. A lot of people had their own ideas about what was going to be included in the PT and most of it was better than the tripe we got.

Does anybody know if there are any organized fan-rewrite efforts going on?

Would people be willing to share their ideas on a website or would people with the best ideas be afraid to post them?

Where are legal problems involved?

Could a rewrite page be started up where there are different forums and rooms discussing all things regarding possible PT plots and debates on which ideas flow best. People vote on plot pieces and sew different concepts together and post in another part of the site. Different users submit how they would write dialogue for a certain scene posted on the site. Artists post sketches of characters, etc.

I'm sure that if enough people posted their conceptions people would be able to frankenstein together some really amazing screenplays or internet novels.
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#2 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 09:21 PM

lucas killed star wars...its dead...don't beat a dead horse. write your own new novel, you could make money...
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#3 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 09:27 PM

i disagree, star wars isn't dead, because of stuff like KOTOR. Its still a great universe with the PT being a major major problem. But as Despondant said about the fan made trailer

QUOTE
If it's a leak, I believe it.
And that's being optimistic.


If it's original it speaks two things.

having the tools to create what we saw aren't just for the big time movie-makers anymore.

Lucas' audience ought come to the realization that their Master can easily be beaten in his own game.


I think that there is still enough fan love and nostalgia to resustitate star wars. Cmon, ignore the PT and SW is pretty damn cool.
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#4 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 09:30 PM

if you are more creative than George Lucas, why pay him homage? Why not start your own epic saga?
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
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#5 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 09:50 PM

QUOTE (Hannibal @ Mar 5 2005, 09:30 PM)
if you are more creative than George Lucas, why pay him homage? Why not start your own epic saga?


i'm not
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Posted 06 March 2005 - 12:21 AM

I like this idea. I know I've posted before about my ideas for rewriting the prequels, but things have changed and new ideas have crept in and illogical ideas have been weeded out.

I have a blog which discusses the "fixing" of the prequels, but I'll just reiterate some ideas here so no one has to slog through it all....

The obvious: No midi's, Jar Jar Binks total revamp, no "rule of two."


1) Alderaan should have been the featured planet.

Why: This would take care of many problems:

A) It would've introduced Senator Bail Organa earlier and shown the relationship between him and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
cool.gif It would intro a planet that we were already somewhat familiar with from the OT, and we would have a vested interest in it's well-being, or at least a curiousity about what kind of world it was before its destruction in ANH, and give a greater emotional impact when it is destroyed (this is why the Gungans and Jar Jar need to be revamped as we'd be cheering for Alderaan's destruction with the current incarnation of Jar Jar).
C) Alderaan in the early scripts was envisioned to be a world of advanced biological science. The plot device in the early script was that the characters were fleeing with the technology to keep it out of the hands of the enemy who needed it to advance their own civilization.
D) Padme would be the ruler of this world just as easily as she was of Naboo.

Note: The design of Alderaan and the 'capital city' Aldera would be more like what McQuarrie painted for in the first place.... not the Italian caricature Theed.

2) Obi-Wan Kenobi is older. He is a Jedi Master. He was trained under Yoda, not Qui-Gon Ginn (I'll discuss him later). Obi-Wan is actually much older than he appears. Obi-Wan was training another student before he was called in to investigate the loss of communication with his home world... Alderaan.

Why?

A) In the original scripts, Lucas wrote up a character named Kane Starkiller. He was described as being "older than he appeared." Also in the script, secondary characters describe the idea that Kane had been around for a long, long time. That the Force kept him young and strong. Lucas should have kept this idea. The reason I would do that is, is that even in the time of the PT's, the Jedi should be legendary, mythical. Not numbered in the thousands, but fewer. One Jedi could make a difference in any given situation. He is revered, respected, and feared by evil. Ben, on Alderaan, since he has lived a long life, is legendary, and this is why Bail Organa knows who is, and why Leia would seek him out. If one heard stories about a legendary hero all their life, and their father tells you that he met him (and saved the father's life?), it would only make sense that one would seek him out for assistance in a time of such dire urgency, wouldn't it?

cool.gif I truly believe Ben should've been from Alderaan. That Jedi, again, drawing from Lucas' early scripts, swear fealty to a planet, protecting it, guiding its leaders. Kane Starkiller also did this in the early scripts. He was entrusted with the security of the planet. In my rewrites, Ben had been away training a student before he is called back to his world which had seen a lifetime of peace before its communications were cut and its senator is missing.

Okay, this next one is going to be a little hard for some people---and I can't take credit for it---I almost rejected the idea at first, but hear me out....

3) Darth Vader WAS a student of Obi-Wan Kenobi's....

Why?

A) To make Obi-Wan an honest man. It's bad enough that Obi-Wan was a white liar in ROTJ, but he's a bald-faced lying sonofabitch according to the prequels... either that, he's got Alzheimer's (which will eventually become a gusher explanation). Obi-Wan said, with all earnestness... and I believed him back in '77!... that Anakin was "betrayed and murdered" by a pupil of his, Darth Vader. And, I know many have accepted the idea that "Darth" is a title for a Sith Lord---WRONG!! Darth has been a NAME throughout two movies. First, in ANH, Ben, when he's squaring off with Vader, says "Darth" likes it's a first name. Many have tried to convince me to think that it would be like saying, "Lord."

You're wrong! And, I have the proof. Before the SE's, in the credits, it says, "Lord Darth Vader." Yeah, Lucas changed it with his special editions, because he wants to revise history, but he missed something very important. Check out the scroll for ESB. What does it say... even AFTER the SE-ization.... "Lord Darth Vader."

HAH!! Gotcha! Lucas will have to revise, again, I guess.

Anyway, according to my rewrites, and borrowing from a very wise Basher, there is a Darth Vader. In my rewrites, he is the last known Jedi to be born in the galaxy. The number of the Jedi is at an end if no more Jedi are born. Obi-Wan has trained the rash youth, who is about 17-19 years old. He is ready to be donned a Jedi Knight, but first he has to help Obi-Wan on his investigative mission to Alderaan.

I know what you're asking, "But it's Anakin under the mask, he's Luke and Leia's father... how can he be Vader?"

Simple, an idea that Lucas had discarded again. In early scripts, the Sith Lords hid behind masks. They assume another identity. Yes, Anakin assumed Darth's identity. Everyone thought he was dead. He comes back claiming to be Vader. This is why Obi-Wan calls him, "Darth," and then only after he dies, does Obi-Wan, by becoming one-with-the-Force, does he know the truth about Anakin.

This would redeem the character of Obi-Wan, this would explain his earnest line about Darth 'betraying and murdering' Anakin and hit would explain why he thinks he's someone else rather than Anakin.

I have more ideas which I'll post later...
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#7 User is offline   use the force Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 12:41 AM

eh, i like the "certain point of view" explanation about how the good man who was your father died when he turned to evil and vader was born better.

but if ob1 is so old in this movie how long is it supposed to be b4 ANH?
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#8 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 01:42 AM

Chefelf would you consider opening up a separate rewrites forum?

That way we could have tons of individual threads following a particular could-have-been idea in stead of just one like this is turning out to be

This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 06 March 2005 - 01:42 AM

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#9 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 02:02 AM

Curtis - I too would have liked to see worlds only mentioned in the OT appear in the PT, like Corellia, Kasshyk, Kessel, Nar Shaddaa, and Alderaan. We'll see Kasshyk and Aldaraan in ep3 but probably not in a way i will have liked. Tatooine was waaay over used.

I disagree with you on Ben Kenobi, I see nothing wrong with him making a white lie. I don't see the reason for the creation of a seperate Vader character. The fall of a good man can make some of the most powerful stories ever. Come on, Shakespeares bests plays (aside from The Tempest,a romance) were all tragedies. While the OT was a fun comedy, the PT could surpass it as a tragedy.

On a separate note, Hannibal had a really cool idea where Palpatine/Sidious (correct me here) appears like a ghost while Anakin sleeps and whispers stuff to him, turning him against his friends.
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#10 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 02:08 AM

Here's where I'll start - The idea that the Republic has stood for millenia, and then briefly becomes an empire for 22 years only to return to a republic doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't believe it for a second. Galactic Historians wouldn't give it any attention at all, What's 22 out of 4000+ years of history? What's more believeable if you ask me, is to take a cue from Japanese history b/c that's where a lot of SW came from. The republic could have disintegrated several decades before episode I into a warring states period involving many "clone wars."

Basically we've be spared the political bullshit and get to focus on the characters. Still plenty of opportunity for palpatine to play one side off another and by episode III become the great peacemaker, presider over the Galactic Reunification like some sort of Bizmark (sp)
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Posted 06 March 2005 - 07:34 AM

CowboyCurtis - that's an interesting idea about Darth Vader, but like JAWF I don't think it's really necessary. Besides, Obi-Wan admits he told a lie in RotJ (unless you want to rewrite that as well).

JAWF - Obi-Wan states (or at least implies) that the Republic has stood for millenia in ANH: 'For a thousand generations the Jedi protected the Old Republic'. I suppose he could have meant several Republics, but in that case why wouldn't he say so? If you want to keep the prequels consistent, which is half the problem with Lucas's prequels in the first place, you'll have to take that into account.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#12 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 09:23 AM

Okay, I can live with the 'white lie,' too. I just wish we could explain the "Darth" and "Lord" thing a little better. If I could---I would rewrite ROTJ in many ways, but... alas that can't be done, and soon, I'm going to have to accept that the PT's are pure crap (well, I already do), and I have to leave this franchise...but what the hell keeps pulling me back!?!

Anyway... okay, I'll drop the Darth Vader is a separate person idea. I've been okay with the "good man turns to evil" thing for many years, I can go back to that again...

Regarding the 22 years=I think if a Republic is transformed from a Repubic to an Empire in that period of time, it ought be a notable... When I was younger I always thought the Republic was roughly a "1,000 years old." Obi-Wan's comment of a "thousand generations" really whacks this out of proportion.

but if ob1 is so old in this movie how long is it supposed to be b4 ANH?

I wouldn't say "so old." He could be 50-60 in chronological years and then appear to be only 30-ish. Again, these are all just ideas I'm kicking around for the time being until something clicks and remains solid, and I'm trying to use as many ideas as I can from Lucas' sources, so that seem more "Star Warsy."

The timeline would be a little longer than what is presented in the PT's thus far. Maybe very little difference at all.

I didn't get to my Anakin summation, so I'll do that now. Anakin, as many---MANY people (even some gushers I've noticed) agree that Anakin should've been between the age of 14-17, and Amidala should have been the same age. I'm okay with the ten years that transpire between Episode I and II, making Anakin & Amidala 24-27, which is the perfect age for two people to consider family, rather than having a silly high-school pregnancy storyline (though Amidala is older than Anakin in the PT's, this is how it appears to me---someone call Tori Spelling!)

After that, from Episode II to Episode III is still in the works for me, but if Anakin is thought to be dead at the end of Episode II and comes back as Vader in Episode III, and Padme gives birth, then we fast forward 19-20 years, that would make Anakin 44-47, which is about the age that Anakin appears under the helmet (more like 47---- I mean, really, according to the PT's now, can you accept that Sebastian Shaw is 39 there!?)

Anyhoot... back to the drawing board to revamp my rewrite... Thanks for the input, guys.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#13 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE
Regarding the 22 years=I think if a Republic is transformed from a Repubic to an Empire in that period of time, it ought be a notable... When I was younger I always thought the Republic was roughly a "1,000 years old." Obi-Wan's comment of a "thousand generations" really whacks this out of proportion.


I have to agree. Further more, how do you define a 'generation' anyway? If it's in human-style, then we could define a generation as when a formerly young segment of the population (the children who were born at a period of time) reach maturity and start to take care over, then you could say that a new 'generation' has started. In human reckoning, I guess that would be about 25 to 30 years (I know that there are exceptions, I have seen 14 year old kids start businesses and become more successful than most senior businessmen at the age of 19 or 20, but those are, after all, exceptions).

In alien years, that could be anything from near the human levels, to several hundred years! According to what I've read, Jabba is about 400 or more years old, and that even when he was a 100 years old, they described it as a 'tender age', meaning that the hutts have a very long life span, and thus the 'generation time' for them is much longer. So a thousand human generations is like 2500-3500 years, but a thousand hutt generations is somewhere between 40000-60000 years!!!

The 'thousand generations' part definately sounds cooler, but if you take into heart the proportions in which you're talking about, a thousand years sounds more plauseable.
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Posted 06 March 2005 - 01:09 PM

My prequel re-writes? If i was to work on it from what we've been presented in episodes one and two, I'd change:

the entire tatooine section in episode 1. it wouldn't be tatooine. anakin would be much older and it would centre around his conflictive relationships with his brother or family.

naboo would be called somthing else. the gungans would be believable warriors and the trade federation would have more sinister reasons for invading the planet (probably becuase they are under the guise of a galactic criminal organisation - hence explaining their driod armies).

the introduction of the sith and darth maul would be more central to the film, replacing pod races and such.

in attack of the clones, yoda wouldn't be CG, a different writer, director, editor and producer would overlook the film to completely mend the relationships between the main characters in obi wan, padme and anakin which weren't very good to say the least. needless stuff like the driod factory the asteriod fight or those big creature would be cut down or just cut completly.

no 50's diner or arena battle where federation driods kill jedi at ease. a complete shambles!!!! considering 200 jedi, so powerful and forceful that only a few hundred are needed to police an entire galaxy, get their asses whipped by a bunch of anorexic driods which were cut down like paper in TPM. a total cop out from lucas and totally ruins the mysticality of the jedi from the originals.

The clone war should have all the main characters fighting at least a gound battle at the end. was anyone disappointed that the clone war at the end of AOTC was basically just the viewer watching a computer game? there was no character involvment at all!


if you were to start again, i'd have episode 1 have the plot of episode II and the second episode be about the clone wars and the third basically be half of what's in ROTS be expanded on.
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#15 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Mar 6 2005, 06:20 PM)
I have to agree. Further more, how do you define a 'generation' anyway? If it's in human-style, then we could define a generation as when a formerly young segment of the population (the children who were born at a period of time) reach maturity and start to take care over, then you could say that a new 'generation' has started. In human reckoning, I guess that would be about 25 to 30 years (I know that there are exceptions, I have seen 14 year old kids start businesses and become more successful than most senior businessmen at the age of 19 or 20, but those are, after all, exceptions).

In alien years, that could be anything from near the human levels, to several hundred years! According to what I've read, Jabba is about 400 or more years old, and that even when he was a 100 years old, they described it as a 'tender age', meaning that the hutts have a very long life span, and thus the 'generation time' for them is much longer. So a thousand human generations is like 2500-3500 years, but a thousand hutt generations is somewhere between 40000-60000 years!!!

The 'thousand generations' part definately sounds cooler, but if you take into heart the proportions in which you're talking about, a thousand years sounds more plauseable.

According to KOTOR, the Republic is over 20,000 years old by the time of the game's events (4,000 years before the movies). So that would make it roughly 25,000 years old by the time of the movies, which fits in with the timescale of 1,000 human generations. (Which would make sense, as Obi-Wan is a human and humans seem to have a dominant role in the galaxy.)

I agree that this isn't hugely plausible, but to be honest, neither is 1,000 years - if you can accept that then 25,000 years isn't much more of a stretch. It is fantasy, after all. Besides, presumably the Republic didn't originally span the whole galaxy - it would have started small and then gradually expanded over millennia.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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