[Helena]

Does it really matter where Obi-Wan came from? I don't see that it's very important. But yes, having him come from Alderaan would explain why he 'served' Bail Organa during the Clone Wars.

[CowboyCurtis]

Okay, where Obi-Wan comes from is irrelevant, but I'll just keep him as originally being from Alderaan in my rewrites.

Okay, I know I'm covering old ground here.

How do the clones fit into your rewrites?

In mine, they don't exist yet. Iin fact, this is the reason for the Mandalores' invasion of Alderaan. Alderaan holds technology that will allow rapid cloning. The practice of cloning has been banned for centuries, as it is an abomination, and the Jedi are equally find cloning distasteful as the Force does not flow through them as it does through natural things which generate it. (So, I would adapt Obi-Wan's line in AOTC about not trusting politicians to not trusting clones).

So, why would the Mandalores pursue the Queen? Why would the Sith? In my rewrites, the Queen is a clone of a beloved Queen. In fact, she is the only exception to the cloning rule, but Obi-Wan still doesn't quite trust her (see this concept was bantied about in the earlier drafts of ESB where Lando Calrissian was a clone, and Leia didn't trust him for that very reason... it could have been reused for the prequels).

In my rewrites, Obi-Wan helps the Queen escape. The Mandalores get the cloning technology, but discovers that they can't activate it. It needs a code.... now, this code could just be something that Amidala knows... or it needs her genetic code to activate it. THIS is why she is pursued. Once they learn this, Lord Maul is sent out to get her....

more on that later.

[Helena]

The Mandalorians aren't really involved at all in my version, except peripherally - that would be too similar to KOTOR. (Sorry, I know you haven't played it.) The clones would be created by Palpatine, ostensibly to help the Seperatists, but really in order to give himself a huge army of what are basically mindless automatons. It could be a Mandalorian who was cloned, though... maybe the Republic could capture him later, only for Palpatine to arrange to have him killed before he agreed to tell them anything.

I also thought it would be good to have a scene with Palpatine (in his Sith Lord guise) inspecting the clone factory, and ordering any 'deficient' clones to be summarily disposed of. Then we would see them being led into a disintegration chamber or something. If done right, it would be very creepy and would really emphasize Palpatine's evil and the 'Nazi' overtones around the Sith.

The Queen (or, in my story, Princess) and her family would just be targeted by the Separatists because they're important political figures. They might try to take her or her father hostage to use as a bargaining chip.

I really should try and write these prequels... I've actually got the basic structure pretty well planned out now. But there are still a few major gaps, and besides, I'm hopeless at screenwriting. Maybe I could just write down an outline somewhere...

[Just another wretched fan]

Mandalores' invasion of Alderaan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A. Personally I think the Mandalorians should never be seen in a star wars movie. Boba Fett was enough, and he just had their armor. Jango Fett should have never appeared. When I saw the famous fake episode II trailer using sceneces from Braveheart and last of the mohicans, the author used some sort of clip involving three guys in mandalorian armor coming through a door. It looked awesome and I liked it, but after seeing what GL did with Jango Fett i've just been completely turned against the whole idea. Canderous Ordo is the only good thing to come out of Mandalore recently, imho.

B. For an EU sidetrack. Did any of you KOTOR I players expect the mandalorians to have a Fett-style helmet instead of the one seen in the game? I wonder what the issue was there. I guess if you make KOTOR canon, Boba Fett (once again i refuse to acknowledge JF's existance) just had the armor and a unique helmet.

C. I found a retarded EU comic book about the origin of Jango Fett, how he lead a group of noble mercenaries called the mandalorians, who attack bad guy planets for money. The Jedi, lead by Dooku, destroyed them because of a misunderstanding with some 'bad' pseudo ex-mandalores or b/c Dooku was evil. I forget. Because of this, Jango, "who is really a good guy", hated the Jedi blah blah - bah. It was total fanboy trash in total opposition to the beautiful seemless KOTOR story.

D. Anyway, what am i rambling about? I've seen the mandalorians abused enough that i think they should be left alone as is, with a golden age 4000 years earlier in the KOTOR universe. All that's left is they're technology that guys like Fett get ahold of.

Maybe I could just write down an outline somewhere...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

go for it!

[CowboyCurtis]

You're absolutely right. See, in my rewrites, there are Mandalore Clones... Boba Fett comes out of them... eventually... There is no Jango, and there is no Boba Fett in my rewrites. So, yes, I agree with you, but I think we needed a villainous group far better than the TF/Neimodians, and the Mandalores, since they were "established" in the ESB novelisation already, I figured they were the best choice, and the best choice for a good villainy. We can still play with the idea of them being unsuspecting pawns of Sidious', too.

[Just another wretched fan]

You're absolutely right.  See, in my rewrites, there are Mandalore Clones... Boba Fett comes out of them... eventually... There is no Jango, and there is no Boba Fett in my rewrites.  So, yes, I agree with you, but I think we needed a villainous group far better than the TF/Neimodians, and the Mandalores, since they were "established" in the ESB novelisation already, I figured they were the best choice, and the best choice for a good villainy.  We can still play with the idea of them being unsuspecting pawns of Sidious', too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A. all i'll say to that is "IF done right..."

B. I really need to reread the novelizations of the OT

C. Personally, I'd rather see a new and original group fill the villian/thug void and be sidious' unsuspecting pawns. I was even thinking of Black Sun and Xizor's predecessor. But once again, see A. The Neimoidians could have been awesome "IF done right." They were a new and original concept. I mean, their concept may have had as much potential as mandalorians or Black Sun thugs if A. Can't you see GL reading your script saying "Curtis, this is great" then totally ruining it by giving them (your mandalorians) ridiculous offensive accents and stupid antics? I mean, The Battle droids could have been awesome, IF DONE RIGHT. Think about it: Genndy Tartakovsky's animated non-stupid battle droids vs GL's battle droids. If GT's droids were in the movie, it would have been "cool" instead of another reason on chef-elf's list. I mean, in GT's animated clone wars, when a droid says "Roger Roger" you don't want to puke.

D. Just thinking of all this right now, Episode I is much more salvageable than Episode II because film students can always digitally edit the dialogue (instantly solving the neimodian and droids, among other things), erase Jar Jar and Boss Nass and maybe even digitally superimpose a CGI 18 year old anakin over that damn sixth sense kid. The space battle can be edited as well. AOTC is beyond hope.

E. Damn you George Lucas!

[CowboyCurtis]

Yep, you're absolutely right, JAWF... It's all in the execution.

Many of the ideas on TPM sounded good on paper.

A reptilian sidekick? That sounded kind of cool at first.
Greedy megacorporation aliens taking over worlds for their own means... Yes, it sounds cool on paper...

Execution. That is where Lucas failed.

[CowboyCurtis]

Okay, here's my question for your rewrites.

Obviously, we think the Rule of Two is a ridiculous concept, but how many Sith Lords do you have in your story, and what is it that they do?

I have three, including Sidious.

All of my Dark Lords wear masks.

Two Sith Lords come in to "assist" my Mandalore characters after they've lost the Queen. Lord Cise remains to oversee the invasion while Lord Maul pursues the Queen. Maul proves his deadliness by killing Obi-Wan's student (the last known Jedi in the galaxy), Qui-Gon Jinn. Maul inadvertently grabs the Handmaiden posing as the Queen and Amidala escapes.

Obi-Wan has to fight back his feelings of revenge when he faces Lord Maul on Coruscant who is still after the Queen.

Sidious... well, he's still "hidden" but Palpatine is finally the one who secures what is needed from theQueen.


I'm planning in my Episode II script to have a few more, but we'll see... there are some issues to contend with...

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 20 March 2005 - 07:39 PM

[Helena]

Okay, here's my question for your rewrites.

Obviously, we think the Rule of Two is a ridiculous concept, but how many Sith Lords do you have in your story, and what is it that they do?

Mine would be a modified Rule of Two - one Dark Lord, one apprentice, and a few 'henchmen' who are less skilled in the Force. Promotion is achieved by killing (or at least comprehensively defeating) the person above you, before someone else does - so all of them have to be constantly watching their backs... Anakin, when he became a Sith, would eventually challenge Palpatine's current apprentice and take over his position (or maybe her position? Would be nice to see a female Sith for once).

[CowboyCurtis]

Interesting. Now, that's closer to what the Sith should be like. It's very "mobster" like, which I like.

[Helena]

I have to admit that I didn't come up with that idea of the Sith myself. It comes from (yes, you've guessed it) KOTOR. In that game the Sith are portrayed as being a bit like the Nazis, except with Force powers and a lot more in-fighting.

What do you think about the idea of a woman as Palpatine's number two? I'd like to see a bigger role for female Jedi as well.

[ernesttomlinson]

I've been reading some of the ideas for alternate prequel stories on this thread and it's all pretty fascinating. I've given the matter a little thought myself, not much, and I'd like to throw this idea out to be chewed on and ripped apart: a lot of time should pass between Episode III and Episode IV. The way things are written now it bothers me that, when Ben Kenobi is talking with Luke in their first conversation in STAR WARS, he talks about the days of the Republic as though they were long in the past. That's the feel of the scene. When Motti and Tarkin needle Darth Vader for his "sad devotion to [an] ancient religion" again there's the feel that the days of the Republic and the Jedi are long past. But Lucas's prequels take place scarcely twenty years, by my estimation, before Episode IV. I don't think it works.

We get clues that Jedi can live a long time and it's their "strength with the Force" that does it. Why not make Obi-Wan a century or two old? We already know that Yoda is older than Methuselah. The chief difficulty with my idea is that now I have to explain how Anakin Skywalker manages to father a couple of adolescent children after he becomes Vader. But then there's no need to assume that Vader is missing the proper equipment, know what I mean?

[Helena]

I've been reading some of the ideas for alternate prequel stories on this thread and it's all pretty fascinating.  I've given the matter a little thought myself, not much, and I'd like to throw this idea out to be chewed on and ripped apart:  a lot of time should pass between Episode III and Episode IV.  The way things are written now it bothers me that, when Ben Kenobi is talking with Luke in their first conversation in STAR WARS, he talks about the days of the Republic as though they were long in the past.  That's the feel of the scene.  When Motti and Tarkin needle Darth Vader for his "sad devotion to [an] ancient religion" again there's the feel that the days of the Republic and the Jedi are long past.  But Lucas's prequels take place scarcely twenty years, by my estimation, before Episode IV.  I don't think it works.

We get clues that Jedi can live a long time and it's their "strength with the Force" that does it.  Why not make Obi-Wan a century or two old?  We already know that Yoda is older than Methuselah.  The chief difficulty with my idea is that now I have to explain how Anakin Skywalker manages to father a couple of adolescent children after he becomes Vader.  But then there's no need to assume that Vader is missing the proper equipment, know what I mean?

I've heard this idea before, but there's another major problem with it: Owen Lars remembers the Clone Wars and Anakin as a Jedi, and he is not a Force user. I sympathise, but I really don't think it's possible to make that idea work while remaining consistent with the OT.

Besides, the idea of Vader fathering children is pretty disgusting. Even if it were physically possible now that he's 'more machine than man', how could any woman be attracted to him? Unless she was raped... but I really wouldn't want to go there.

[CowboyCurtis]

(Agree I do with you, Helena)

It would have been nice to see a female Sith. When I had heard of the "Sith Witch" rumors oh-so-long-ago, I was pretty excited by the concept (especially with the Iain McCaig artwork), but that went no-where.

Yes, let's have some female Sith.. some alien Sith... something bizarre or unique.

I think we could play with an older Obi-Wan (like I had proposed at one point) character, but Vader would have to remain roughly 40-50 years of age in ROTJ to make it work and be the father of Luke. But, whether Obi-Wan is a 100 years old or 30 years old in the first episode, I think the Jedi should already be on the decline. That's why I have in script ideas that no new Jedi have been born for some time (at least 15 years--or the age of Anakin, i.e., no more Jedi were born after Anakin's birth).

There are fewer Jedi, and the Jedi are a bit desparate to fill out their ranks, they also can't figure out WHY no new Jedi have appeared (this is the work of Lord Sidious). So KOTOR would be the time when the Jedi when they were at their strongest. Ep. I is but a shadow of their former strength.

[Just another wretched fan]

this is strange, i'm agreeing with curtis more and more

oh well it will pass, i'm sure.

That's why I have in script ideas that no new Jedi have been born for some time (at least 15 years--or the age of Anakin, i.e., no more Jedi were born after Anakin's birth).

now there can't be a scene where Vader can't kill little jedi kids. oh well. not much of a loss.

I've heard this idea before, but there's another major problem with it: Owen Lars remembers the Clone Wars and Anakin as a Jedi, and he is not a Force user. I sympathise, but I really don't think it's possible to make that idea work while remaining consistent with the OT.

you know i'm an advocate of this idea, so i'd get around the lars problem by making the clone wars last forever, like 50+ years and ending maybe 20 years before luke was born?

Besides, the idea of Vader fathering children is pretty disgusting. Even if it were physically possible now that he's 'more machine than man', how could any woman be attracted to him? Unless she was raped... but I really wouldn't want to go there.

what about other sci-fi alternatives like cryogenics.

random creative burst: Padme is critically wounded, put into a Bacta statis or something for a few decades until they find a cure or she slowly heals or whatever. Twins stay in womb in suspended animation.

a few decades later somebody (obi-wan? a rebel?) pulls the plug to prevent the children from falling into vader's hands. pissing off vader and forcing the twins to be born 20 years before ANH.

More of the Vader age problem could be solved if the romance occured between a middle aged vader and a young padme, sort of like in braveheart with the older wallace and the young princess. just a thought