[Helena]

We should do this rewrite discussion more often.

Oh, we do it every now and then.

I had planned to have Owen as Anakin's friend as well. I thought of making Anakin a smuggler who's helping the Seperatists, not out of any particular sympathy to their cause but just in order to make a living. At the beginning of the first movie he would be captured by Obi-Wan, who spots his exceptional strength in the Force and offers him the chance of a new life as a Jedi. At first he's happy to accept, but as the war etc. take their toll he becomes more and more disillusioned with the Order.

As for Padme (or whatever Luke and Leias' mother is called), she would be the daughter of the king of Alderaan. Anakin could be assigned to guard her along with Obi-Wan (as in AotC) and they would gradually fall in love, but for a reason this time. (Maybe he could save her from some kind of danger - yeah, I know it's clichéd, but that's the best I can think of for the moment.)

Anakin then leaves to fight in the Clone Wars, during which Padme's father dies; she accedes to the throne and is pressured into an arranged marriage with Bail Organa, another important noble. Anakin gets to hear of this and secretly visits her just before her marriage to beg her to reconsider. They spend the night together and he wants her to run away with him, but she insists that she must do her duty. He leaves, bitterly angry and disappointed, and she then discovers she's pregnant...

With the Sith, I prefer to have them as the anti-Jedi, followers of the Dark Side (as in KOTOR). But it could be that Palpatine has discovered how to resurrect the original Sith species by cloning their DNA, and that these are the clone army. (We never get to see what they look like under their uniforms, after all.)

[CowboyCurtis]

Brilliant, Helena! I think that's a very apt and appropriate way for Palpatine to gain his power, and certainly has the more grander/epic feel to it than the PT crap.

I had planned to have Owen as Anakin's friend as well.

At what point, though is Owen objectionable to life and adventure? I see a lot of people like Owen in the real world, they never go far, they don't have any desire to be part of anything bigger, that we should stay home and "mind the farm." I really don't think Owen should be in this capacity. See, this is one of the reasons why I thought that making a separate "Vader" character would be useful. He would be a friend, he shares in the adventures, but there's a dark side to him, and like a bad influence, he slowly leads Anakin down the wrong path because it's peer pressure... anyway...

I like the Padme ideas. Her marrying Bail isn't something I've considered before. Very interesting, and it has that classic feel to it, especially with Anakin feeling jilted and growing bitter. Nice.

And, I definitely like the Anti-Jedi Sith. I always--ALWAYS---believed the Sith would be this way in the prequels. Damn... Lucas was just to chickenshit to deal with it.

Anakin is captured by the Sith at one point, tortured for information and told that the Jedi massacred them in the centuries before for inhumane reasons. This leaves an infectously bad taste in Anakin's mouth, torn between ignoring it as a lie and believing it as possibly the truth, and then he has a nasty showdown with Palpatine/Sidious, which results in having his hand blown off by the Force lightning....

This doesn't work for me. Evil or not, why would you join someone who has tortured and maimed you? Anakin's turn to the dark side has always been described as a "seduction." To me Anakin and Vader are one in the same, that he chooses to be Vader because, possibly, he has nothing left to live for (Amidala is dead), and it gives him the control and power he's always sought. I guess I just don't like the "split personality" angle.

BTW: I'm 36. Yes, old enough to have seen ANH in its original run! So nice to see someone as young as Helena defending the OT, and make far, far better cases than a codger like me.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 07 March 2005 - 02:58 PM

[Helena]

I had planned to have Owen as Anakin's friend as well.

At what point, though is Owen objectionable to life and adventure?  I see a lot of people like Owen in the real world, they never go far, they don't have any desire to be part of anything bigger, that we should stay home and "mind the farm."  I really don't think Owen should be in this capacity.  See, this is one of the reasons why I thought that making a separate "Vader" character would be useful.  He would be a friend, he shares in the adventures, but there's a dark side to him, and like a bad influence, he slowly leads Anakin down the wrong path because it's peer pressure... anyway...

I don't see that these things are mutually exclusive. You could have Owen as a restraining influence on Anakin, trying to persuade him to 'settle down' as it were, and then after Anakin joins the Jedi he would meet this 'Vader' character. (I don't particularly want a character like this, but that's mainly because he wouldn't fit very well into my own plot ideas). Regardless, I think Owen does need to have a fairly close relationship with Anakin - otherwise why would he have any opinions on whether Anakin should 'stay here and not get involved', and why would he agree to bring up Anakin's son later on?

BTW: I'm 36. Yes, old enough to have seen ANH in its original run! smile.gif So nice to see someone as young as Helena defending the OT, and make far, far better cases than a codger like me. smile.gif

I just like a good argument

This post has been edited by Helena: 07 March 2005 - 04:47 PM

[CowboyCurtis]

I wrote a really bad paragraph there. In essence, I agree with you Helena.

Here it is put simply what I was trying to say:

For the prequels, Tatooine needed to be seen again.

Why?

Because Obi-Wan says (paraphrasing), "...your uncle said your father should've stayed here, should not have gotten involved..."

and the way Owen speaks about Anakin:

Beru: "...he has too much of his father in him..."
Owen: "That's what I'm afraid of..."

What did Owen see? What does he know? The way he says it, he has some firsthand knowledge of what Anakin/Vader is capable of.

I don't see Anakin as a waif on the street with an artful dodger-type setting (this would be more fitting for a young Han). As much as some people don't like it, he was raised on Tatooine, his life nearly mirrored that of Lukes. Ultimately, he made the wrong choices as Luke made the right choices.

Can we at least agree that part of the Prequels should've taken place on Tatooine? That Obi-Wan found him there?

Can we have a consensus that Anakin & Amidala should've been between the ages of 14-17?

If we can get that much, I'd be happy, then we can move onto the next question:

Can we agree that Alderaan should've been the planet of focus?

[CowboyCurtis]

The other thing I want to say is this....

I think ANH & ESB are the high points of the Saga. If I could change things, it would the prequels, and portions of ROTJ. I guess that's where I'm writing from. My question I guess, is everyone else writing from the viewpoint that the OT is solid, don't change a thing, match the prequels.

I figure, as long as I'm fantasizing about changing the prequels, I might as well fantasize about changing ROTJ, too.

(I was dreaming of changing ROTJ long before the prequels came out).

[Lord Aquaman]

I guess that's where I'm writing from.  My question I guess, is everyone else writing from the viewpoint that the OT is solid, don't change a thing, match the prequels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to change a certain line from ROTJ. The line is Leia's response to Han after she thaws him out and he's blind.

HAN: "Who are you?"
LEIA: "Someone who loves you."

That line bugs me for some reason. I kind of wish Leia had said something more... I dunno, cynical I guess, not a line out of a bad romantic trash novel.

HAN: "Who're you?"
LEIA: "Take a guess, flyboy."

And while we're on the subject of altering ROTJ, if only in our minds, how should Han Solo have died? Should he have died on Tatioone at the hands of Jabba or one of Jabba's thugs, should he have died on Endor sacrificing himself to save one of his friends (who's bright idea was it to put the Death Star's shield generator so far away from the actual Death Star?) or should he have been slowly dying over the course of the film as a result of the carbon freezing having left a bad side effect on his health?

[Just another wretched fan]

And while we're on the subject of altering ROTJ, if only in our minds, how should Han Solo have died? Should he have died on Tatioone at the hands of Jabba or one of Jabba's thugs, should he have died on Endor sacrificing himself to save one of his friends (who's bright idea was it to put the Death Star's shield generator so far away from the actual Death Star?) or should he have been slowly dying over the course of the film as a result of the carbon freezing having left a bad side effect on his health?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A. Keep Han Alive, kill Lando, destroy the Falcon, as originally intended.

B. Han and Leia hook up, Han settles down, as in EU

C. In an Episode 7, Han is absolutely miserable at being a family man instead of a rogue. Major midlife crisis ensues.

[Just another wretched fan]

Because Obi-Wan says (paraphrasing), "...your uncle said your father should've stayed here, should not have gotten involved..."

and the way Owen speaks about Anakin:

Beru:  "...he has too much of his father in him..."
Owen:  "That's what I'm afraid of..."

Can we at least agree that part of the Prequels should've taken place on Tatooine? That Obi-Wan found him there?


Can

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ykno, we don't necessarily have to go to Tatooine in the PT. It would keep the OT fresh and new if all 6 movies were viewed in cronological order.

Simply put, the character of Anakin is introduced, and described as a farmboy hailing from a backwater desert world. The audience could learn this information from a conversation between Obi-Wan and someone else

OTHER CHARACTER: That young apprenctice of yours put on quite and impressive proformance. Who is he?

OBI-WAN: His name is Anakin, (If we omit skywalker, then ESB could still be a shock?) He comes from a backwater desert world on the outer rim....

Another thought I had involved Anakin returning home and briefly settling down only to be picked up by Obi-Wan to go on a damn idealistic crusade.....stopping the Clone Wars?

Finally, Owen and Beru Lars don't need to have any blood relation to Anakin or Luke. My cousin has a Crazy Uncle Bob who is just my Uncle's college buddy. It doesn't even need to be mentioned that Vader's child will be hidden in the last place Vader would expect. Maybe there could even be a discussion over killing the baby because its too much of a potential threat if discovered.

Also I think there is a dilemma between Owen and Anakin being acquaintences because he would be one of the people to look up. The idea that Owen knew Anakin could be another white lie. Better yet, they could just not expain it. Just leave it that Anakin came from a desert planet and focus on the more important parts of the plot. Less is More.

[Just another wretched fan]

Regardless, I think Owen does need to have a fairly close relationship with Anakin - otherwise why would he have any opinions on whether Anakin should 'stay here and not get involved', and why would he agree to bring up Anakin's son later on?
I just like a good argument

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In theory Owen could be a good man with no relation who knows what needs to be done and agrees to lie to protect Luke.

I honestly like your idea better I just don't know how to reconcile it with Vader, in orbit over tatooine, thinking "hmm...i better tell my stormies not to blast my old friend Owen"

Or at least a "TK-142, you failed me for the last time by vaporizing my old buddy, ::choke::"

I'm positive we can come up with a really nice resolution, one better than whever GL did in ROTS

[Helena]

Can we at least agree that part of the Prequels should've taken place on Tatooine? That Obi-Wan found him there?

I agree that Anakin should come from Tatooine, but he has to be a pilot rather than a farmer, because Obi-Wan talks about what a great pilot he was when he first met him. I always assumed it was his piloting skills that made Obi-Wan notice him in the first place.

Can we have a consensus that Anakin & Amidala should've been between the ages of 14-17?

For Anakin, I'd have said 18-20 - in other words, about the same age as Luke in ANH. Amidala, maybe about 17, otherwise she's really too young for any kind of serious romantic stuff. (Yeah, I know Juliet was 14, but that was in the Middle Ages... ;) )

Can we agree that Alderaan should've been the planet of focus?

Absolutely.

Also I think there is a dilemma between Owen and Anakin being acquaintences because he would be one of the people to look up. The idea that Owen knew Anakin could be another white lie. Better yet, they could just not expain it. Just leave it that Anakin came from a desert planet and focus on the more important parts of the plot. Less is More.

But in my version of the story, Anakin doesn't realise he has children by Amidala, so he has no reason to 'look Owen up'. Let me explain:

Like I said, Anakin sleeps with Padme just before her wedding day. He then storms off and she discovers she's pregnant with twins. In desperation she confesses all to Obi-Wan, who advises her to keep the pregnancy secret until after her marriage and pretend the children are her husband's.

During the following nine months, however, Anakin leaves the Jedi and falls to the Dark Side. When Obi-Wan tells Amidala this, she is terrified of what Anakin will do if he realises the children are his. Obi-Wan suggests they be hidden after their birth, and she agrees.

Bail Organa is still away fighting in the war when the twins are born, and Obi-Wan arrives to take them away - but Amidala can't bear to give up both of them, so he takes only Luke. When her husband arrives back, Amidala pretends that Luke died and Bail believes Leia is his own daughter. Obi-Wan takes Luke to Tatooine and then goes off to confront Anakin one final time, leading to their duel; Padme brings up Leia and dies a couple of years later (probably suicide) after the fall of the Republic.

I honestly like your idea better I just don't know how to reconcile it with Vader, in orbit over tatooine, thinking "hmm...i better tell my stormies not to blast my old friend Owen"

Or at least a "TK-142, you failed me for the last time by vaporizing my old buddy, ::choke::"

Remember that at this point Anakin has a) not seen Owen for over twenty years and b) gone to the Dark Side. He probably doesn't care in the least what happens to his 'old friend' - in fact, he probably doesn't even think about him at all. He simply orders his stormtroopers to search for the droids and kill anyone who's been in contact with them.

[CowboyCurtis]

I agree that Anakin should come from Tatooine, but he has to be a pilot rather than a farmer, because Obi-Wan talks about what a great pilot he was when he first met him. I always assumed it was his piloting skills that made Obi-Wan notice him in the first place.

Good, good. I absolutely agree. One of my thoughts for Anakin is that he is a pilot. In fact, a bit like "Catch Me if You Can," Anakin sneaks on board freighters, but is brought back home to his angry "father," Cliegg (this would be narrative more likely than seen on film). Cliegg is a farmer, he's trying to force Anakin into being a farmer, but Anakin is always tinkering with the machinery, etc. Anakin ought to have a ship not unlike Luke's Skyhopper on Tatooine, to indeed, reveal his piloting skills.

So, I think we're on the same page so far.

Like I said, Anakin sleeps with Padme just before her wedding day. He then storms off and she discovers she's pregnant with twins. In desperation she confesses all to Obi-Wan, who advises her to keep the pregnancy secret until after her marriage and pretend the children are her husband's.

During the following nine months, however, Anakin leaves the Jedi and falls to the Dark Side. When Obi-Wan tells Amidala this, she is terrified of what Anakin will do if he realises the children are his. Obi-Wan suggests they be hidden after their birth, and she agrees.

Bail Organa is still away fighting in the war when the twins are born, and Obi-Wan arrives to take them away - but Amidala can't bear to give up both of them, so he takes only Luke. When her husband arrives back, Amidala pretends that Luke died and Bail believes Leia is his own daughter. Obi-Wan takes Luke to Tatooine and then goes off to confront Anakin one final time, leading to their duel; Padme brings up Leia and dies a couple of years later (probably suicide) after the fall of the Republic.

I like this! This really works well, and clears up a lot of questions in the OT. Good! Very good!

[barend]

I posted an idea ages ago...

do some searching and quote it, someone... i think you'd like it.

the only new idea i have for a rewrite is this:

a carzy industrialist mandolorian apocalypse nut called Nieba Pasyd constructs a countless arsenal of 400kGigaton- TISNMs (Tactaical Ineter Stellar Nuclear Missle) [AKA planet poppers] and destroys all life in the galaxy right before anikan is born, and survives in an isolated excape pod with 12 minutes of oxygen left to record 12 minutes of crazy laughter onto his black box recorder before asphixiating and crashing into a sun.

TA_DA!!!!

well, what do you think? it reduces the trillogy to a 15minute depressing yet comical short film, but i think it hits the desired affect.

[use the force]

Here is what I think TPM should have been like:

THE PHANTOM MENACE

Several hundred star systems have declared their intentions to leave the Republic. Hoping to draw the most vocal of the separatist systems back into the Republic, the Supreme Chancellor secretly dispatches two Jedi Knights, OBI-WAN KENOBI and QUI-GON JINN to resolve the issue.

When the Jedi arrive they discover a large army and are attacked by planetary (A) guards. They go into hiding and are helped by a young boy named ANAKIN to escape to the nearby star system of NABOO that has been forced into the Separatist crisis by PLANET A. ANAKIN’s mother is killed in the process and QUI-GON takes the boy into his care until he can find him a safe haven. When they arrive on the planet they soon learn that the people of Naboo have been supressed by the Separatists.

The group are able to meet with the local GUNGAN tribes and are helped to reach the leader of NABOO. They meet a young girl in one of the camps - PADME NABERRIE. Padme was once a handmaiden to the QUEEN before the invasion of her planet and tells the group she is able to help them get into the palace and free the Queen so that the Queen can return to Coruscant and request assistance from the REPUBLIC GUARD.

They secretly enter the palace and save the Queen , safely stowing her aboard a Royal Starship. However, the starship is fatally wounded on departure from the planet by the Separatists. The group head for the nearby star system of PLANET B. They land but do not have enough money to trade for the parts they need to fix the ship. ANAKIN tells the group that he can race in the local pod race if they front the fee. The group agree to it. ANAKIN enters the race and wins. QUI-GON suspects the boy has JEDI abilities.

On board the starship ANAKIN and PADME talk about the crisis and their families and comforts ANAKIN after the loss of his mother. PADME tells ANAKIN she wishes there was a more peaceful solution to this crisis.

The group fix the starship and head back to CORUSCANT where they are immediately met by SENATOR PALPATINE who has been representing her system in the senate. The Queen is asked to plead her case to the Senate to request the Chancellor to have the REPUBLIC GUARD drive out the invading forces.

ANAKIN is taken to the JEDI COUNCIL and given a test to see if he could be trained to be a JEDI. One member of the council, MASTER DOOKU is vocally opposed to training the boy and the Council refuse to train ANAKIN.

Meanwhile, QUI-GON reports that the separatists have begun building their own droid armies. MASTER YODA immediately goes to the CHANCELLOR and the LOYALISTS. The crisis is brought before the Senate but is stalled. QUEEN JAMILLIA makes her plea and through chance, the peaceful CHANCELLOR is voted out of office. Senator PALPATINE is nominated, and succeeds, at taking his place.

Meanwhile, the limited amount of REPUBLIC GUARD is sent to NABOO under the guidance of the JEDI to drive out the invading forces. ANAKIN is a key member when he knocks out the droid control ship that orbits the planet rendering the ARMY DROIDS useless. QUI-GON is killed and OBI-WAN takes on ANAKIN as his apprentice. MASTER DOOKU leaves the JEDI ORDER over ANAKIN's training. The planet is freed and the separatists are dealt a major downfall in their campaign against the Republic

[Despondent]

Luke says in ESB "There's something familiar about this place."

I liked that part, Lord Aquaman. And the No last name mention of A.S. would be nice.
Anything to heighten the familiarity so prevalent. (yawn.)

Great job everyone.

[CowboyCurtis]

That's the spirit, UTF!