[CowboyCurtis]

the entire tatooine section in episode 1. it wouldn't be tatooine. anakin would be much older and it would centre around his conflictive relationships with his brother or family.

The only problem with this is that it HAS to be on Tatooine. After all, Obi-Wan says, "...he thought your father should've stayed HERE...should not have gotten involved."

HERE... where they were on Tatooine. Whether we like or not, it has to be on Tatooine, and it makes sense that Owen would be there, too. That he would stay, that he's the one who stayed behind... the one who thinks things should never change. We could spend very little time there, but Tatooine has to be a part of the prequels. I do agree, though, that Lucas spent too much time there. The pod-races, as cool as I thought they were, were so COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY!

I agree with the last part. In my rewrites, Shmi is already married to Cliegg Lars, in fact, Owen is her son. Anakin was kind of a mysterious "oops" I won't say a "virgin birth," but he was definitely unexpected.

Shmi is from the family of Skywalker, the Jedi's that basically discovered the Force, and aided in the materialisation of the early republic. In my rewrites, according to the backstory, 500 years ago, a Skywalker, I'll call Kane Skywalker (whom Yoda knew) fought and defeated an evil form of Sith long ago, imprisoning it on... Dagobah (only Kane knew this). Kane then took his family and vanished, never to be heard from again (they settled on Tatooine, keeping a low profile).

When Obi-Wan discovers Anakin, he's actually called "Anakin Lars." Owen, the older brother picks on Anakin, derisively calling him "Annie," but Owen is also afraid of Anakin and what he's capable of. He's seen Anakin do things, levitate items, react quicker, etc. And Cliegg knows of Shmi's past. He has forbidden her from telling the boys about their past. Shmi even has a broken lightsaber hidden away (it may even be the same one which is passed on to Luke).

Obi-Wan arrives, looking for a mechanic to fix his ship, which is Anakin. Cliegg is enraged and Owen stands by his father. Shmi encourages Anakin to go with Obi-Wan, to fulfill his destiny. Anakin turns back to and says, "I am a Skywalker..."

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 06 March 2005 - 04:57 PM

[Just another wretched fan]

Helena - it took me the longest time to figure out who or what JAWF was.

anyway. When you really think about it, a 24,000 year old galaxy wide republic falling at the drop of a hat doesn't make sense at all.

I think it wouldn't be bad to take a really artistic interpretation of Obi-Wan's words. Maybe the Republic was founded by non-humans and the humans have just sort of become the majority at this point in time?

I really like the idea of "a series of republics" over a 24,000 year period.

Look at Greece for example. Someone could say that Greece has been around for 3,000 years. But when you look at it, numerous kingdoms, city-states, dictatorships and republics have transpired. I suppose someone could say that something has protected Greece for 3,000 years and still make sense.

Also, as someone said, the Republic could have been a very small collective 24,000 years ago when some other race or force controlled the galaxy. It may have just rose to power several thousand years before KOTOR.

Obi-Wan doesn't have to know his history. He probably just meant "a freakin long time. "He could just be Waxing Poetic and we dont' need to pay to much attention to him. Obviously GL didn't.

Curtis- I have a ton of nitpicks with your plot, but i still have to say its better than what GL gave us.

[CowboyCurtis]

Please nitpick. I'm very interested to read what you have to say.

[Helena]

Helena  - it took me the longest time to figure out who or what JAWF was.

anyway. When you really think about it, a 24,000 year old galaxy wide republic falling at the drop of a hat doesn't make sense at all.

Well, it certainly doesn't make sense the way Lucas portrays it. But the way I imagine it, the Republic has come close to being destroyed by the Sith several times in the past, but always hung on by the skin of its teeth. Eventually the Jedi pretty much wiped out the Sith and the survivors went underground, attempting to undermine the Republic from within. (Think along the lines of the Nazis in pre-war Germany - terrorism, attempts to manipulate the democratic system and turn it to their own advantage, that sort of thing.) This wouldn't happen 'at the drop of a hat' but slowly and at first almost imperceptibly, until things started to fall apart...

I think it wouldn't be bad to take a really artistic interpretation of Obi-Wan's words. Maybe the Republic was founded by non-humans and the humans have just sort of become the majority at this point in time?

I really like the idea of "a series of republics" over a 24,000 year period.

Look at Greece for example. Someone could say that Greece has been around for 3,000 years. But when you look at it, numerous kingdoms, city-states, dictatorships and republics have transpired. I suppose someone could say that something has protected Greece for 3,000 years and still make sense.

I don't agree with you here, I'm afraid. Greece is a territorial area, not a political system. But it's your rewrite, so it's up to you...

Obi-Wan doesn't have to know his history. He probably just meant "a freakin long time. "He could just be Waxing Poetic and we dont' need to pay to much attention to him. Obviously GL didn't.

Obi-Wan's a Jedi; surely he would have at least a rough idea of the history of the Order? Waxing poetic or not, if he says a thousand generations then presumably he means a period in the order of a thousand generations (and this would have to be human generations; nothing else would make sense). As for GL, the whole point about him is that he's shown time and again that he doesn't care in the slightest about maintaining continuity between the two trilogies. If I were writing the prequels I'd want to do things differently.

[CowboyCurtis]

Oh, and how I wish someone who cared---and someone who knows the continuity---had written this instead of Lucas. It just staggers me that a "writer" would not do his research---ESPECIALLY ON HIS OWN CRAP!!!

It's laziness! LAZINESS! LAZINESS!! And if Lucas didn't want to do the work, he could've lured a bunch of Star Wars nerds in with the promise of merchandise, cameo appearances, White Castle Burgers, anything, to get all of the details straight!!!

It's pride! PRIDE! PRIDE! PRIDE!

[Just another wretched fan]

i guess all i'm saying is that in order to make a thousand year old republic changing its name to the galactic empire make sense one of two things has to happen.

Current conventions basically depict a timeline going from Old Republic to Galactic Empire to New Republic. It has to be a pretty huge event to cause a thousand generation old government to fall and get reincarnated as a new republic. If you ask me, a 20 year period of Empire wouldn't be anything in a 24,000 year history. Certainly not worthy enough for a name change.

I think the best way to rectify the problem is to make the empire's reign closer to a hundred years and make the old republic not that notable in the first place.

Ok so the greek analogy was a bad idea.

All my point is is that the whole politcal process of the fall of the republic should be long, drawn out, and frankly boring. It needs to start well before ep1 to be believeable. If the Republic were the roman empire, episode one would take place somewhere in the 400's as things are accelerating downhill.

[Just another wretched fan]

can anyone see how to resolve the dilemma of Vader knowing that he is orbiting his home planet? I want to see what people think before the see epIII

[CowboyCurtis]

In my rewrites I was going to resolve it that the death of a loved one is a traumatic experience on a Jedi... that it affects them Force wise. Being close to a place where it happened causes stress, almost to a physical point, which may be one good explanation to separate a Jedi from connections with people.

This idea I combine with the cave at Dagobah. It's not a person... it's a place... then why-oh-why is it so thick with the dark side? In my rewrites, the Sith demon which took Palpatine over was entrapped there, and all of that pure hatred and anger left something behind. So strong it can affect other Jedi.

Therefore, Vader's doesn't want to go down to Tatooine. It would be too much for him to handle. And whereever Padme died, that would be too much for him, too.

...just ideas.

[CowboyCurtis]

Which brings me to another point/question...

(if you're into spoilers on Episode III... don't read the following)

In Episode III, Yoda is defeated in their mano-y-mano battle, and he just simply... tucks his tail between his legs, runs off to Dagobah to hide out and wait for Luke? This really bugs me! I mean, it just seems so cowardly, and again, it's Lucas using his Force to push the characters along rather than giving the characters motivation or purpose.

What was everyone elses' ideas on how and why Yoda went to/or ended up on Dagobah.

My personal view is that Yoda was sent there against his will. I know I had mentioned this idea before, but never really got a response on it.

It's basically this, Yoda does face off with the Emperor, but not with sabers. They are more like wizards than knights. Yoda is close to defeating the Emp' when he suddenly opens up a darkside "wormhole" to Dagobah, depositing him on the hostile world (I'll explain why later, depending on how people are receptive to this idea), a world only Palpatine knows of. Not even Obi-Wan knew where Yoda was sent. In fact, from his viewpoint, he probably thinks Yoda is dead (and that is why Yoda is not mentioned in ANH).

Only by merging with the Force is Kenobi able to focus in on Yoda and find him, and then pass the information on to Luke in ESB.

[Just another wretched fan]

I think you're making something simple much more complicated. I always figured that when the Empire is exterminating jedi Yoda just leaves and hides out of Dagobah, simple as that. Obi-Wan hides on Tatooine because Lukes there.

In some EU novel maybe by Zahn, Luke travelled to another random world and found the hideout of a jedi, only the empire found him and he saw blaster scoring on the walls.

I never thought the Dark Side Nexus on Dagobah as ever being a big deal. Its pretty much all an EU construction and I don't see it as needing to be in the prequel trilogy.

Personally, I wouldn't even give Yoda that much attention in the PT. I would seriously just want to focus on building up a relationship between Anakin, Obi-Wan, "the girl", and an amazing villian.

[CowboyCurtis]

I generally don't read the EU... what's the "Dark Side Nexus?"

Otherwise, how do you explain the "cave" (which isn't a cave, it's an artifical structure that has been there for years).

I just thought this would be an interesting story idea. It doesn't conflict, and I don't see it as being all that complex.

Anyway, irregardless, I still don't feel what Lucas has given us so far is interesting, expository, nor exciting enough to be Star Wars. How I wish these prequels were never made, then we could leave it up to our imaginations as we wish.

I'll ponder your points and see what I can come up with. I could be agreeable to no Yoda in the prequels, then his appearance in ESB would all the more powerful and poignant. As long as he's not kung-fuing and swinging a lightsaber like a Japanimation character, I'm happy.

[Just another wretched fan]

I generally don't read the EU... what's the "Dark Side Nexus?"

Otherwise, how do you explain the "cave" (which isn't a cave, it's an artifical structure that has been there for years).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the nexus is the cave

i never knew it was artificial.

i also never thought yoda was the leader of the jedi council until the trailers for ep1 started coming out. I meant that he should be a bit character. but honestly im starting to like the idea of no PT yoda more and more

i also suggest that the word "younglings" never ever appear ever.

[Paladin]

(Think along the lines of the Nazis in pre-war Germany - terrorism, attempts to manipulate the democratic system and turn it to their own advantage, that sort of thing.) This wouldn't happen 'at the drop of a hat' but slowly and at first almost imperceptibly, until things started to fall apart...

Umm, Helena, there's something you should know about Nazi Germany. One of the main reasons Hitler got elected is due to the fact that the German people were not at all very enthusiastic about the Weimar Republic. Before World War 1, Germany was an Imperial state, and every German was loyal to the Kaiser. No German kingdom or state really had what could be called a democratic way of doing things (with an exception of German-speaking Swiss, but they were a part of Switzerland and considered themselves to be Swiss).

When Kaisers Germany fell apart after World War 1, the German people were very angry at the Allies, not only for their defeat, but for the fact that they replaced their form of government with another that they found to be alien. The Germans always looked towards a strong leader and did his bidding, the whole idea of any politican making it to office for a few years than retiring, or someone who could be voted out if some people don't feel he's doing a good job was bizarre to them.

That why Germany got to Hitler so quick. Hitler promised a better Germany, and to restore the old order, which he did (for a time, of course), this is why he was so popular.

Of course, the burning of the Reichstag and blaming it on the Jews did have a good deal to accelerate his plans...

Which reminds me... why do I have this sensation that the whole 'seperatists' idea of GL and having to give Palpatine special powers to deal with it was ripped off from Hitlers rise to power?

[Helena]

Paladin - I'm well aware of all this. That was exactly my idea - that you provide a reason for people to be dissatisfied with the Republic, making it all the easier for Palpatine to exploit that dissatisfaction. Let me explain my own favoured scenario:

Lucas's 'seperatists' idea is actually quite a good one in theory - if you give them some actual motivation (ethnic, political, religious, whatever) for wanting to secede from the Republic. Of course, the Sith - secretly led by Palpatine, the deputy Chancellor - would be manipulating them behind the scenes and providing them with resources, including the secret construction of a clone army which will allow them to launch a full-scale war against the Republic. Now imagine that they've become a real threat, launching large-scale terrorist attacks across the galaxy, and that the Republic's people are clamouring for their leaders to take decisive action against them.

The Jedi oppose this as they suspect Sith involvement in the Seperatist movement, but the Order has greatly decreased in power, influence and numbers over the last millennium. Since the Jedi apparently wiped out the Sith a thousand years ago, people believe they no longer exist, and therefore the Jedi are less important for the Republic's defence - victims of their own success. Nevertheless, they are desperately trying to find out the truth about the Separatists before it comes to war.

Palpatine claims to be in favour of 'tough action', i.e. war, against the Separatists - opposing the Jedi and many other Senators, who would prefer to avoid a war. He frames the current Chancellor for having links with the Seperatists, whilst publically defending him. The Chancellor is found guilty of treason and removed from office; at that point, Palpatine gives the go-ahead for the Seperatists to launch their clone army against the Republic. He takes over the role of Chancellor, declares a state of emergency, and declares war on the Seperatists (which everyone now accepts is inevitable).

The war drags on for several years, leaving everyone exhausted and desperate for peace, and the Jedi's numbers badly depleted. Finally, when a lot of clones have been captured, Palpatine integrates them into the Republic's army and turns them against the Separatists, as he planned all along. The war finally ends and Palpatine is a huge hero, commanding massive popular support amongst the Republic's citizens. Against the wishes of the Jedi and many Senators, he retains his army of clones and many of his emergency powers.

As time goes by, Palpatine enacts a series of populist measures whilst gradually tightening his grip on power - placing increasing restrictions on the media, regularly bypassing the democratic process for 'security' reasons, and ensuring that Senators who oppose him are threatened and intimidated. The Jedi are horrified and threaten to break off their millennia-long association with the Republic - but they have lost credibility amongst the general populace, with whom Palpatine is still enormously popular. Finally they discover the truth about Palpatine's links to the Sith and the Clone Wars, but few people believe them and they are forced to sever their connection with the Republic. Palpatine then claims that they are a threat to the Republic, and orders his army to forcibly break up the Order and arrest its leaders. The Jedi have no choice but to fight back, but there are too few of them and most are wiped out; the younger ones are supposed to be returned to their families, but in actual fact Palpatine secretly has most of them massacred.

With the last effective threat to his authority removed, Palpatine no longer has to hide his connection to the Sith or pretend to be a democrat. Backed up by his army, he declares himself Emperor and gives himself the right to force through or block any law in the Senate. People finally realise what's going on - too late. The prequels end here; over the next 20 years, Palpatine will gradually consolidate his power and a resistance movement will begin to develop.

Whew! Glad I've got that over with. Now all that's left is to work out how Anakin's fall to the Dark Side relates to all this...

[Lord Aquaman]

Whew! Glad I've got that over with. Now all that's left is to work out how Anakin's fall to the Dark Side relates to all this...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well done Helena.

If I had been in charge of writing Anakin, I would have written him as an emotionally repressed drifter working as a freighter pilot prior to meeting Obi-Wan, with Owen Lars as his longtime friend. Anakin's anger stems from a sense of rootlessness, of having no idea who his family is/was and no idea of what to do with himself. While bringing in his freighter one day an accident occurs on board and the ship nearly crashes but through sheer will power, Anakin taps into the Force to keep the ship aloft long enough to land it safely. This brings him to the attention of the Jedi, who are impressed that someone with no prior training in the Force could pull off such a ridiculously heroic feat. Obi-Wan approaches him and offers to train him to use the Force, but Anakin initially turns him down because he doesn't feel that he's cut out to be a Jedi; he is eventually talked into joining with the promise of possibly finding his place in the scheme of things. And personally his girlfriend/lover/mother of Luke & Leia should be a lady Jedi Knight. Might give more weight to the idea of the Force being strong in the Skywalker family.

I agree with anyone that the Sith should have been a race of creatures rather than the title applied to "Dark/Evil Jedi". The Sith should have been using the cloning technology to keep themselves alive and to breed a massive army with with to take over the universe, with only the Jedi standing in their way. And over the course of the war many Jedi get snuffed.

Anakin is captured by the Sith at one point, tortured for information and told that the Jedi massacred them in the centuries before for inhumane reasons. This leaves an infectously bad taste in Anakin's mouth, torn between ignoring it as a lie and believing it as possibly the truth, and then he has a nasty showdown with Palpatine/Sidious, which results in having his hand blown off by the Force lightning. As Anakin tries to resist the dark side his personality would gradually split in two - the essential good half that is Anakin and the sadistic half that calls itself Darth Vader, with Anakin blacking out at various times so that his Vader persona can take over and perform evil deeds for Palpatine and give him inside info on the current state of the Jedi. As the truth of his situation becomes apparent to him, a horrified Anakin goes into hiding in hopes of finding some way to do away with himself and protect others from himself, but Obi-Wan comes looking for him and ends up confronting the Darth Vader personality in the lightsaber volcano showdown. After an exhausting duel, Obi-Wan [believing he can bring Anakin back from the brink of madness] throws down his lightsaber and tells Anakin Vader "I don't believe you will, but if you want to kill me, then kill me." Vader almost decapitates him, but at the last second the Anakin half of his persona reasserts itself and, in a desperate act to save his own soul and protect the future of the universe, he willingly throws himself into the lava whilst Obi-Wan screams "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"... only to just barely survive, be found by Palpatine and be reformatted in the Darth Vader gear we know and love.

I always assumed that Yoda took Luke & Leia's mother to Dagobah so she could give birth in secret, which is why Luke says in ESB "There's something familiar about this place." Maybe Dagobah was a training planet for Jedi, I don't know.

We should do this rewrite discussion more often.

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 07 March 2005 - 11:49 AM