[J m HofMarN]

Free Peltier

Free Mumia

Free Lynne

These are just three of the political prisoners that the US government holds, and one of them is on death row. I've known people who have been hunted by the government for their political views. I've been threatened with felony charges for my own actions. This is real, and these people are real.

Mumia was a Black Panther member and radical journalist. He saw a policeman (you know the proper name for this guy, the three letter one, but I'm not using it just for expediency) beating his brother and intervened. The cop got shot and Mumia was blamed despite the fact that no gun was ever found, another man confessed, and a human being has EVERY bloody right to shoot a cop if that officer is abusing his power and abusing a member of their family because of their race. I would very much have liked to see whoever did the killing in Mumia's trial at Ruby Ridge, the LA riots, Pine Ridge, a certain bathroom in a New York police station, or Waco.

Leonard Peltier is accused of murdering (read defending himself from) FBI officials who were assaulting an Indian reservation because of their involvement in the struggle for Native American rights. Once again there was no evidence. They just wanted to make an example. Leonard and Mumia are both heroes, REGARDLESS of whether they're actually "guilty" of these crimes or not. However they are assuredly not guilty of anything except being the wrong color. They are just the most well known of the political prisoners being held by the American regime.

If you want to learn more visit the two sites linked above, or read any of Mumia's books. You can also hear about Mumia in the song "Voice of the Voiceless" by Rage Against the Machine.



Thanks to the comrades at imageshack.us for free hosting.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 24 April 2005 - 11:02 PM

[Slade]

There was a lawyer from the midwest that was arrested without accusation of a crime and held for a while by the Bush Administration a few years back, but they let him go eventually. Three cheers for America! Hip hip - fuck that.

Any suggestions as to other countries I can move to that would be worth while to live in?

[floppydisk]

Australia. England. The Moon.

Also, to JM: You know stuff like this happens. Politicians are greedy, and will break thier own laws to get more. They want power, and some are willing to do anything to get it. There's not much you can do about it. It's like income tax. The constitution or something states that only state govt. can tax. Every time someone begins to oppose the income tax, they lose thier job, or something like it. Shit happens. I'm not saying it's right, there's just not much you can do about it.

Double Edit: When I first looked at this thread, I thought it said "Free Mariuana"

This post has been edited by floppydisk: 25 April 2005 - 02:58 PM

[J m HofMarN]

No, I'd say that a man being placed on death row for his political views and the color of his skin is rather unlike the income tax. And there IS something people can do to it. Any of the sites linked will give you addresses to write to, petitions to sign, and a great deal of other material. Spread the word and get people aware of whats going on. At the very least you'll be warning them.

[floppydisk]

Just for the record, I was comparing the principle of Govt. control, not directly comparing the prisoners and the tax law. And I meant that there's not much you can do to stop the govt. from behaving like that.

[Slade]

There are a couple things I could think of, but I'd get arrested for them. And that stupid income tax... It was only supposed to be during the war, you lying bastards!

[Rhubarb]

Horfman - I'm divided here. I haven't read the info on these people (will do so in a bit, after I eat), but do they really count as political prisoners? They've been accused of murder... murder gets people arrested. There's no proof that they're being held on the colour of their skin or because of their political leanings. I'm not saying I agree with their convictions, or that they even committed the crimes. I'm just saying that what you described seems ambiguous.

Lynne Stewart seems another deal altogether. 'Aiding terrorists' is wonderfully generalised and nonspecific.

Anyway, will eat and read.

And I wish to also draw attention to these people, who escape horrific circumstances in their own country only to be kept in incarceration and awful conditions for years without appeal. It's a bit closer to home, and these people are innocent of any crimes apart from entering Australia without clearance.

This post has been edited by Rhubarb: 26 April 2005 - 05:25 PM

[Dr Lecter]

Horfman - I'm divided here. I haven't read the info on these people (will do so in a bit, after I eat), but do they really count as political prisoners? They've been accused of murder... murder gets people arrested.

If you do read it, you'll see that (assuming its not a load of crap), these people are discriminated against because of their views. Also, I think the confession of the assassin along with three witnesses that swear blind he didn't commit the murder, and along with lack of forensics, points to a innocent, grounds for re-trial at minimum.

Also, Americans may let their country invade foreign countries for their oil, and hold them prisoner without charges for long periods of time. It seems unlikely that they would let them hold a citizen in prison for no reason, they have to make it look good.

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 26 April 2005 - 04:57 PM

[Rhubarb]

Okay. Well from the links you provided...

It certainly seems that the charges were trumped up and possibly fabricated to unfairly ensure a conviction from Mumia. I'm inclined in his favour, and if all the points listed here are true and accurate, he's definitely being fucked over because of his Black Panther involvement more than anything else. However, the site doesn't really have as much hard info as I'd like, and has points like:

William Singletary, a Vietnam veteran and local businessman, saw the whole incident and has testified that Abu-Jamal was not the shooter. However, the police forced him to change his story and intimidated him into leaving Philadelphia.

How did the police do this? Where is the evidence, or even the reasoning? It's very, very vague and isn't helping their case.

The Peltier site is much more indepth. It seems that FBI agents stormed the ranch looking for someone, a shootout commenced (it doesn't say who started it), and Peltier was made a scapegoat for FBI agent death. Facts were withheld from the jury, and there was no reliable witness testimony. What interests me most is that a Native American death committed at the same time has apparently gone ignored and uninvestigated.

The case of Lynne Stewart is the one I find most disturbing. She was apparently indicted purely because of some of the more disturbing stuff contained in the Patriot Act.

The eavesdropping on attorney-client communications that led to this prosecution would have been unimaginable before September 11. (...) Stewart never provided any financial support, weaponry -- or any other concrete aid -- for any act of terrorism. No act of terrorism is alleged to have resulted from her actions.

It seems that "SAMs prohibited Stewart from having any contact with her client that the Department of Justice deemed to be outside the scope of "legal representation" and prohibited Rahman from having contact with anyone outside prison walls except his wife". She agreed to those terms, and violated them by helping her client to get letters delivered to the outside world.

she released to Reuters News Service a statement from the Sheik to his followers saying that he was "withdrawing his support for a ceasefire that currently exists" with respect to violence that his followers in Egypt were engaged in (the cease-fire was declared after 58 tourists were slain in Luxor, Egypt, in a bid to win the sheik's release). The government charged that the press release was a veiled message for the shiek's followers to engage in violence.

She's guilty of breaking an unjust law, but guilty of terrorism? Christ. The government's habit of labelling everyone who challenges them as a 'terrorist' is an increasing cause for great concern...

The ramifications of this case are quite nasty.

[Slade]

This has been going on since the neo-cons took power, and probably before too.

Technically, I could be charged as a terrorist under the PATRIOT ACT Act by dressing up in a frightening costume and stopping traffic in a street while holding a sign with a political statement on it.

Lecter - No we don't. No one will do anything decisive to stop the adminstration so it does what it wants. Big Brother will reign yet.

[J m HofMarN]

Slade- Only if you got caught. And actually I'd imagine that many of our statements would be able to be considered terrorist in nature, so I at the very least am probably already "guilty"

Rhubarb- Great to see you here. And yeah I've heard a great deal about the detention of illegal immigrants. The US has about 4000 muslim immigrants detained incommunicado last I checked.

You're right about the vagueness of the intimidation, but you have to realize that a lot of cops are authoritatirans who know how to play by the rules. They're not going to make specific and clear threats or wave guns around. They work with vague intimidation so that even if you could get it on tape it sounds legal. That's how these guys operate.

And yeah I definately don't like the Stewart conviction much either. Once again you can see that they were likely motivated by her political views (she represented people from the Weathermen and other groups largely gratis just because she shared their ideals) I definately don't see what she did wrong. No deaths occured because of her actions and the Egyptian regime is famous for human rights abuse and crushing democracy. This guy and his followers have every right to fight against that nation.

Not only did Mumia and Peltier not do anything but if they had done what they're accused of it would have been peachy keen by me. I see no reason why any of these people should be imprisoned, much like the people in the following links.

And here are the stories of two more political prisoners, only this time they're Muslims (read: terrorists) so it's A-OK! One of them was kidnapped secretly from Macedonia and held for several months after they found that he was innocent. The other is facing a life sentence in prison because he played paint ball and allegedly made Anti American statements. And if theres one thing I know its that paintball is only played to train for terrorism.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7642319/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7591918/

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 26 April 2005 - 07:00 PM

[Rhubarb]

I can't believe I only just noticed this forum. Why did no one tell me. >:(

You're right about the vagueness of the intimidation, but you have to realize that a lot of cops are authoritatirans who know how to play by the rules. They're not going to make specific and clear threats or wave guns around. They work with vague intimidation so that even if you could get it on tape it sounds legal. That's how these guys operate.

Yeah, fair enough. I just thought the Mumia website could have been more specific and given more information. I was going to comment more on the Mumia case, but the website seems to have gone down. Might add later.

It would not have been cool with me if they'd shot the cops and there'd been clear evidence that they'd done so... not only because I don't want to give any potential debating opponents a foothold, but also because I don't condone murder in any form... but regardness, I'd still have wanted to see some investigations into the crimes committed by the police. There is no indication that this is being done, aside from a comment by a judge that the FBI agents got a bit carried away when they were storming the ranch in the Peltier case. It's like no one was really bothered so long as the scary nigger and the bothersome Injun got locked away.

I admit I don't know a great deal about American policies on immigrant detention, but I'd imagine that at the moment it's probably worse than in Aus, where it's pretty damn bad.

Also, interesting links. I particularly like this quote from the El-Masri case...

Watt says this incident shows incompetence on the part of the CIA. "They denied a man his freedom, simply to avoid potential criticism or embarrassment," he adds.

I can just imagine them going, 'Shit, if we release him, the damn lefties will be all over us, accusing us of making mistakes! We can't allow them to point out that we're infallible! We have to keep him imprisoned for the good of the nation! We have to do it for Freedom!" Brilliant.

On the al-Timimi case...

But the judge left open the possibility that she will toss out some of the counts.

Gee. They must have been some pretty deadly counts.

He said they were required as Muslims to defend the Taliban from a looming U.S. invasion, according to the government.

Weirdly enough, he's the first out of these stories who actually is proven to have Taliban sympathies. Which his prosecutors are milking for all it's worth. It's like, "Hey guys, whaddaya know, this guy really does support the Taliban! Who'd have thunk it?"

On the topic of stupid 'muslim=terrorist' assumptions, I'm sure that you're aware of this?

[Laughlyn]

Australia. England. The Moon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahem. England is not a country, just like Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland it's part of Great Britain. But you don't want to move here anyway.

Big Brother will reign yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We got rid of Blind man Blunkett, so they've replaced him with power happy Clarke, who's going to force ID card through and tattoo our National Insurance numbers on our foreheads. ID cards were first proposed by the Tory's to deal with the IRA threat, but got dumped because the project wouldn't work.

The moon is the best option (but I think the American flag might lead them to claim it as their territory).

Peltier's an interesting one. I think anyone who's door get's kicked in by a gun waving mystery man has the right to shoot back. Isn't that constitutional over there or something? Selfdefence\manslaugher seems a lot more relevant in this case.

I do have distant memories of a TV spot on him way back (when every channel showed non-stop war on terror), to keep him locked up for so long seems way off the mark, even for murder charges. All of this just adds to my theory that the US has been upping security for years, 9/11 just gave it a media friendly face. I guess the only thing keeping Peltier from being classed as an illegal combatant is that he was defending his own country.

[floppydisk]

Ahem. England is not a country, just like Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland it's part of Great Britain. But you don't want to move here anyway.

I get completely confused when it comes to this. Once it was called Britan. Once there was England. Now it's Great Britan. Can't they make up thier minds? That's one thing the US has going for it, we've always been the USA (I think).

[Slade]

Great Britian is England plus whatever parts of Ireland and Scotland that they haven't given soverignty back to yet, I think.