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KotOR 2 The Sith Lords

#16 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Kirby @ Feb 19 2005, 12:53 AM)
Well... yeah having everything go handy dandy and destroying the sith fleet with your bare hands does kinda make it hard for the next generation to have a big intimidating bad guy, but remember how far back the Kotor  was, and remember that all you did was destroy their big factory that made the sith's victory fast and inevitable, now it is just slowly but surely biding its time till Vader comes along. Galaxy is a big place, look at the scale of the situation

'How far back KOTOR was?' Five years is not nearly enough to explain a reversal of that kind, unless - as the game does - you assume a scenario that goes way beyond the limits of plausibility. And the Sith's victory was not 'fast and inevitable', or Malak wouldn't have been bothered with trying to capture Bastila in the first place. KOTOR made it quite clear that the Star Forge was the only thing allowing the Sith to combat Bastila's Battle Meditation - we're even told that Malak is not nearly as good a strategist as Revan, and yet Revan still hadn't managed to defeat the Republic before Malak took over. What's more, at the end (the Light Side ending, that is), Admiral Dodonna talks about you having 'broken the spirit of the Sith'.

QUOTE
Does KoTOR 2 assume the player chose light side? If everything was honky-dorey in the Star Wars universe after Malak and the Star Forge was destroyed, why a sequel? Things make much more sense assuming Revan went dark again. It'd be cooler to boot.

KOTOR 2 doesn't 'assume' anything; it deliberately allows you to choose how you think KOTOR ended (which alters a few events in the story, but the basic scenario is exactly the same whether you say Revan went Light Side or Dark Side). And it doesn't fit the Dark Side ending any better; if you chose that ending, the Republic shouldn't even exist five years later. If they wanted to make a sequel that left this ambiguous they should have set it a long time later, when the question of what happened in the original game can be more easily glossed over - there are 4000 years between KOTOR and the movies, after all. And for the record, while this is largely a matter of personal opinion, I do not agree that Revan going dark again would be 'cooler'.

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I can't say for the dark side, but setting Reven to light side works fine for the story. The Sith are not attacking the republic anymore. Infact, the new Sith have nothing to do with it. The Republic is broke and devasted after the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil wars, and is just trying to rebuild itself. The Sith in question are simply hunting the Jedi, and nobody else.

The Republic was not 'broken and devastated' at the end of KOTOR, so how come this is the case five years later, when (assuming a LS ending) it should be well on the mend? And how the hell did these 'new Sith' manage to practically wipe out the Jedi when they started at such a major disadvantage? And how come they're only fighting the Jedi, when last time I checked the Jedi and the Republic were allied with each other? It hardly seems likely that they'd part ways just at the time when they need each other most desperately. "Hey, guys, the Jedi just saved our asses and got rid of Malak for us. Great, now let's allow them to be wiped out by the Sith, leaving us open to attack by anyone and everyone when we're at our most vulnerable!"

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Of the two Sith Lords, I know Darth Sion was on Korriban when it turned on itself. He didn't just come out of nowhere. Plus, when you consider who his master was for the last four years, as well as other plot related aspects, it's not surprising how they built up their force. I don't know where Darth Nihlius was during the wars, but he gained his power in much the same way.

So how come we never saw or heard anything of these 'new Sith' in the original game? This is classic Lucas-style retroactive continuity, and I loathe it. What it comes down to is, the developers are too lazy to come up with a scenario that follows on logically from the first game, so they just pull all this stuff that was never mentioned before out of their arses and expect us to believe it was like that all along. It might be tolerable in a piece of speculative fan fiction, which IMO is exactly what this plot feels like, but it's not remotely acceptable in canon - at least not to me.

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So, like I said, this post is not directed at Helena, and I don't expect a responce. I just want to point out that(at least to me)her post missed the point of the plot, so don't take it as a reason not to play the game.

I didn't 'miss the point' of anything. I was already well aware of most of the points you made in your post; I just don't agree that they make for a plausible story, as I explained above. I'm not trying to discourage people from playing the game; I'm simply trying to explain why I don't want to play it.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#17 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 05:39 PM

Every one keeps saying the bosses are easy, does this mean the fighting is boring? I had trouble with a few bosses in KOTOR, and died a bunch on tatooine via sand people.

If the combat is weak, I may not get it, nothing frustrates me more than a game that I can beat in 7 days. (I beat starfox 64 in less than 1 hour)

Although, I've been jonesing to build another Jedi, so maybe I'll pick up the game regardless.

But is it that easy? If the bosses are a joke, then how much more pansey are the normal enemies?

This post has been edited by Jordan: 19 February 2005 - 05:40 PM

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#18 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:33 AM

The game took me a bit over 50 hours, I think. But I don't know how much of that was me just leaving it in the inventory or something whilst I was having dinner or watching TV or whatever. The early game is a bit more difficult, but I found the endgame to be a joke. Like I said though, I was about level 28, and had about 550 HP(I refuse to call the VP). So, it took a lot to take me down.
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#19 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 01:13 AM

Sounds like the game needs an updated patch. They enemies in the latter game should increase level with your character, much like in final fantasy games.
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#20 User is offline   OneWithStrange Icon

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:53 AM

I picked KoTOR 2 up yesterday and I'm already on the second planet; this game is very addictive. One neat feature I especially like are the new diaglogue modifiers. For instance, if your character has enough intelligence, he\she can solve riddles (remember all that math in KoTOR) on his or her own. Skills (Treat Injury, Repair) can also give the player new dialogue options.

The enemies are not too weak, but don't expect much of a fight from them. The boss battle on the first planet caused me a bit of trouble. One thing I noted was that the game seems to find excuses to give my player XP, something like 250 for opening a door with a terminal. I'm level 7 on the second planet.

-Ben
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#21 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:37 PM

You get XP for using your skills, killing enemies and advancing plotlines, apparantly. So if you pick the lock instead of bashing the door down, you get a little XP. Oh, and if you bash containers open, you may break whatever's inside. And Jordan, you can always turn the difficulty up. I played through both games on normal mode, but the harder modes may be more difficult.

The only bug which annoys me is to do with conversations. Sometimes it will just skip through everybodys dialouge, so I'd be given a list of responses, with no idea what I'm responding to. This happend in the first game as well, and doesn't seem to be covered in the trouble shooting. Anyone else have this problem?
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#22 User is offline   OneWithStrange Icon

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 02:35 AM

I had that same problem occasionally, but I booted it back up and things were fine. Haven't encountered it in KoTOR 2, yet. Only problem I have during conversations is the 'last dialogue spoken' bit disappears from the top of the screen, as does the black bar. Did you update your version?

-Ben
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#23 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 03:50 AM

They should hand off the next KOTOR to blizzard entertainment, there's a company that knows how to update a game.

Starcraft is about 10 year's old now, and last week they released patch 1.12! That's devotion to the fan base.

If a game is mired with bugs or imbalances, update the fucking thing with patches.
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#24 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 07:35 AM

There's no patch out yet, but there is an autopatcher, so we can hope one will be forthcoming. My understanding of the situation is this. EA releases it's sport games once per year, and makes large profits. Lucasarts saw these profits, and decided to jump on the wagon. Lucasarts then forced Obsidian to release the game before it was complete. Hence we have another reason to hate both George Lucas and EA.
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#25 User is offline   OneWithStrange Icon

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 03:19 PM

Argh argh argh angry.gif
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#26 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 10:35 AM

The problem is that you can't patch console games. You just have to make them right the first time. sad.gif
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#27 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 25 February 2005 - 08:08 PM

I think that might change, chef. Consoles are getting closer and closer to becoming mini computers. The next generation systems will probably incorporate a large memory bank, which can by used to store patches. Internet connection is industry standard now, even the dreamcast had that.
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#28 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 08:58 AM

Sorry, I tend to forget about the X-Box. But I understand you have a decent PC anyway(well, if you can afford two monitors, I assume you can afford a good PC), so why get the X-Box version at all?
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#29 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 04 March 2005 - 11:04 PM

I finished it last night with a Consular/Sith Lord. And I can say, the very final battle was much harder. I just didn't have the HP this time to stand there and take a beating. But apart from that, I was a killing machine.
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#30 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 03:08 AM

Found this link at Penny Arcade. Apparantly a bunch of scenes that got cut from the final version.

http://forums.obsidi...opic=29764&st=0
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