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Woman Files $10M Suit Vs. Starbucks Wednesday, December 31, 2003

#1 User is offline   K1NGWARREN Icon

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 12:28 AM

QUOTE
Woman Files $10M Suit Vs. Starbucks
Wednesday, December 31, 2003

In a case with echoes of a famous suit against McDonald's, a Glen Cove woman has filed a $10-million claim against Starbucks, alleging she was badly burned by coffee that leaked from the container.

On the morning of May 5, Janine Arslanian bought coffee from Starbucks at 5 School Street in Glen Cove, according to court papers initially filed in October in the State Supreme Court and later moved to federal court in Central Islip. The suit says that as Arslanian received the cup, coffee "leaked and flowed from the container on the bare right hand and arm ... causing her to sustain severe burns" and suffer "permanent injury and scarring." The suit describes the injury as "extensive and gross second and third degree burns to her right hand and arm."


http://www.newsday.c...linews-featured


It's so sad to see yet another innocent moron burned. If they award her the money, each bill should say "I'm a moron" on it.
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 01:07 AM

Who would sit there and let this coffee leak (i assume it didn't explode and just pour all over her) on their body so as long as to sustain third degree burns unless they were or always have been: a) self destructive and should be locked up for their own health, or cool.gif lobotomized. Or something far more deviously feeble-minded?
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 02:11 AM

I once split some hot tea on myself from a plastic cup. As soon as I felt the tea on my finger I dropped it instantly, spilling it all over the place.

Why didn't she do the same? I know that Starbucks coffee is expensive, but burning your arm like that is just... stupid.
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 09:21 AM

"Permanent Scars" amuses me.

Coffee can be a maximum of 212 degrees. If you spill a little coffee on you it will burn like a bitch but any scars beyond temporary redness are unlikely.

I once grabbed a metal pan handle from a 550 degree pizza oven with my barehands. Now THAT was a burn. Even though it was hot metal (the same used to brand animals) it didn't scar me permanently.

The great part about this country's legal system is that everyplace started putting though "Caution: Contents are Extremely Hot" notices on all their coffee cups in the wake of the McDonald's lawsuit. However, I am sure this woman will still be awarded her money.

Still, it's hard to feel bad for Starbucks. Just look at the crap they write: http://www.chefelf.c...p?showtopic=203
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 04:29 PM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Dec 31 2003, 09:21 AM)
"Permanent Scars" amuses me.

Coffee can be a maximum of 212 degrees. If you spill a little coffee on you it will burn like a bitch but any scars beyond temporary redness are unlikely.

Well I don't know about this Starbuck's lady, but Stella Liebeck needed skin grafts to recover from burns to her genital area, and she spent 20 days in hospital. Initially she asked McDonald's for $50000 to cover the bill for her hospital stay, and they refused, so she was drawn into a lawsuit against her initial wishes.

In court the corporation's lawyer argued that this was the first time anyone had ever mentioned that McDonald's coffee might be too hot, even though it was well recorded that numerous employees had complained about the excessive heat. They also argued that the damage the woman had suffered was not McDonald's fault since at her age the woman's skin was weaker than a younger person's would have been. They also argued that she should not have been driving while preparing coffee, which showed their poor preparation since she had been the passenger in the car and it was parked when the incident occured.

The McDonald's corporation came off looking very bad with its legal defence strategy (especially given the initial out-of-court offer), and that's certainly why the jury awarded Stella with the settlement.

So long as Starbuck's avoids the trap of attacking the plaintiff's personality ("she's after us because we have deep pockets"), they will probably be fairly safe given that they have offered warnings on their coffee cups for more than a decade now. All the same, I bet they offer something out of court with the proviso that the amount never be disclosed. On the other hand, if they are able to drag the case out, we'll see just how "permanent" those burns will be.
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 05:16 PM

Wow, surprise, another lawsuit.

Who do I sue if I make the coffee myself and get burnt?
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Dec 31 2003, 04:29 PM)
but Stella Liebeck needed skin grafts to recover from burns to her genital area, and she spent 20 days in hospital. Initially she asked McDonald's for $50000 to cover the bill for her hospital stay, and they refused, so she was drawn into a lawsuit against her initial wishes.

Of course, she spilled the coffee on herself. The fact that hot coffee ended up in her lap was in no way the fault of McDonald’s. People shouldn’t be awarded millions for simply being clumsy.
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Posted 31 December 2003 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE (Enhasa @ Dec 31 2003, 06:25 PM)
Of course, she spilled the coffee on herself. The fact that hot coffee ended up in her lap was in no way the fault of McDonald’s. People shouldn’t be awarded millions for simply being clumsy.

Sure. But let's say, for fun, that the coffee was in fact molten steel and its temperature was 2500 degrees. While Stella was clumsy enough to spill it into her lap, the McDonald's corporation would be considered responsible for failing to inform her of the dangers of its excessively hot "coffee." If the coffee is too hot (hotter than average, say), then the company has probably had an opportunity to notice this and to mitigate possible damage (by lowering the temperature to industry standard, or by making better cups, or by warning people. Starbucks has done two of these things). Simply put, nobody expects that spilled coffee will lead to skin graft surgery. McDonald's had to be considered partly responsible for selling coffee above the industry standard, since it was essentially selling people a product they could not have known was so dangerous (nobody's home-brewed coffee is that hot).

Knowing this is the case, the McDonald's corporation chose to lie in court, saying that they were unaware that their coffee was so hot, despite the fact that all of their coffee brewers across the company and in the franchises are set to corporate standards, and despite the fact that several people, many of whom were McDonald's employees, had complained that the coffee was too hot. They went further to say that the woman had special medical circumstances (she was old) that made the situation unforseeable and unpreventable. So the legal strategy was first to blame the victim, and then claim that there was no way for the corporation to have mitigated damages by pretending not to have known something that it could easily be shown they damn well knew.

So they lost. The system works.
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Posted 01 January 2004 - 12:51 AM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Dec 31 2003, 10:16 PM)
But let's say, for fun, that the coffee was in fact molten steel and its temperature was 2500 degrees.

Argument by false analogy.
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Posted 01 January 2004 - 08:14 AM

QUOTE (Enhasa @ Jan 1 2004, 12:51 AM)
QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Dec 31 2003, 10:16 PM)
But let's say, for fun, that the coffee was in fact molten steel and its temperature was 2500 degrees.

Argument by false analogy.

Boo hoo. Hyperbole is a part of any argument. Do you think I was trying to fool someone?

The coffee *was* unexpectedly hot, moreso than Stella or any customer should have expected, since coffee is not that hot when you make it at home (typically it's about 30 degrees cooler).

McDonald's had had numerous complaints about the temperature of its coffee, and it tried to conceal this from the court because it wanted to show that it could not have known that its coffee could cause third degree burns in two seconds, and that it had done so in the past, resulting in legal action (see below). Ultimately the corporation admitted that it was aware of the previous complaints and lawduits, but that it did not consider them statistically significant. Failing to mitigate a known risk is considered negligent; lying about it in court is essentially perjury.

This from the El Paso County Bar Association:

"McDonald's knew the risks of serious burn injuries from its scalding hot coffee for more than ten years. More than 700 other burn injuries from McDonald's coffee had occurred between 1982 and 1992, including burn injuries to the genital areas, perineum, and inner thighs of the victims. McDonald's admitted that its coffee was 'not fit for consumption' when it was sold because it causes severe scalding if it's spilled or drunk. McDonald's admitted that its customers were unaware of the risk of drinking its coffee and that it did not warn its customers of the risk; and reported that it had no intention of changing its policy. Stella Liebeck, the burn victim, had never sued anyone in her life before and had offered to settle her case for her medical expenses and a little money for her pain and suffering. The verdict included $200,000 in compensatory damages, which was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found her 20 percent comparatively negligent; and 2.7 million dollars in punitive damages, which the court reduced to $480,000."

Here are a couple of websites that lists the facts of the case. Some are different from what I reported in my previous post. I imagine the details in the linked article are correct and my numbers were the usual internet extrapolations.

http://www.personal-....com/cases.html
http://www.citizen.o...cles.cfm?ID=785
http://www.sctla.org...inthenews40.asp

From what I hear, the El Paso McDonald's named in the lawsuit reduced the temperature of its coffee to 158 degrees, at which temprature it woud apparently take 60 seconds to cause a third-degree burn. So in at least that one case (if what I read is true), a lawsuit against a corporation resulted in an action that reduced the risk to the consumer.

Without these lawsuits the only safety measures corporations would adopt would be the ones where the damages were considered "statistically significant," whatever that's supposed to mean.

PS: All that said, I figure the Starbuck's customer only has a case if the cup was defective. The Starbuck's cups clearly announce that their contents are "extremely hot" and that care should be taken. And since Starbucks does not actually serve molten steel, but only ridiculously hot (abd over-roasted) coffee and tea, the warning is probably good enough.
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Posted 01 January 2004 - 03:30 PM

Emu: sue the company that produces the coffee maker.
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Posted 01 January 2004 - 04:06 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Jan 1 2004, 08:14 AM)
it wanted to show that it could not have known that its coffee could cause third degree burns in two seconds

There is no way coffee -- even if it’s 30 degrees warmer than most coffee -- would cause a third-degree burn, much less a third-degree burn in two seconds as was claimed by the plaintiff.
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#13 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 06:33 PM

QUOTE (Enhasa @ Jan 1 2004, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Jan 1 2004, 08:14 AM)
it wanted to show that it could not have known that its coffee could cause third degree burns in two seconds

There is no way coffee -- even if it’s 30 degrees warmer than most coffee -- would cause a third-degree burn, much less a third-degree burn in two seconds as was claimed by the plaintiff.

This is what I'm saying. I've suffered more burns than your average person (red hot pans, burning coals for wood grills, splashing fry oil) and boiling liquid is a walk in the park compared to most anything else. Permanent scars are unlikely unless someone's hand or arm was completely submerged in boiling water for 5 or more seconds.
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Posted 01 January 2004 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE (Heccubus @ Jan 1 2004, 08:30 PM)
Emu: sue the company that produces the coffee maker.

Don't stop there. Sue the coffee company, the company that made your cup, whoever built your home, and the company that made your toaster.
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Posted 02 January 2004 - 03:50 AM

QUOTE (Enhasa @ Jan 1 2004, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Jan 1 2004, 08:14 AM)
it wanted to show that it could not have known that its coffee could cause third degree burns in two seconds

There is no way coffee -- even if it’s 30 degrees warmer than most coffee -- would cause a third-degree burn, much less a third-degree burn in two seconds as was claimed by the plaintiff.

Sure. I'm inclined to agree, but since I have never actually spilled coffee on my balls, I have no idea what sort of burns it might produce there and I will probably never test the matter. We can all have opinions about the case, but the fact is burns were suffered, surgery was performed, and the jury that actually heard the case and saw the evidence bought the argument that the coffee was overly hot and that McDonald's, forewarned by numerous prior complaints, had failed to reduce the risk or to appropriately warn its customers.

Here's a random result from a google inquiry into hot liquid burns:

http://www.burnsurvi..._hotliquid.html

My feeling is that after the coffee has soaked into her clothing Stella would have avoided injury to her genital area had she stood up and pulled the clothing away from her body to give the cofee time to cool down. Sitting down as she was in the car, she was limited in her ability to do this, and was therefore partly responsible for the injury to herself (the jury put a figure of "20% responsible" to this, and reduced the award accordingly). The real issue in that case of course was not whether the plaintiff might have suffered less had she reacted more quickly, but that McDonald's dealt with her "callously" and that initially the company misrepresented the facts in court.

I doubt the plaintiff in the current Starbuck's case will be successful with a similar argument.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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