Palpatine
#1 Guest_WhoCares_*
Posted 30 December 2003 - 12:15 PM
#2
Posted 30 December 2003 - 12:34 PM
There is no explaination. Lucas made the force too powerful. If he limited it to a) moving objects with thought B.) seeing things in the near future ie. a guy coming from behind and hitting you c) sensing fear ( like spider mans abillity) then things would be ok. Instead he made them out to be almost omnipotent.
Why stop at palpatine, why not the million man clone army being made?, why not the foresight of all the jedi dieing?
Lucas painted himself into a corner. Did you know there is a jedi religon that people actually follow? check it out on google or go here http://www.jediism.org/
How do you think these people felt when they found out that the force was just some stupid thing in your blood. Religon? no more like super human race.
#3
Posted 31 December 2003 - 12:23 AM
There's the first scene in which Palpatine assigns Obi-Wan to protect Amidala and the face Yoda makes is supposed to be one of suspicion. The only way I know this is that is the what the script says. Otherwise, who would have known?
I completely agree that Yoda becomes a bumbling idiot not noticing the Sith Lord standing right next to him.
Yeah, Whocares, why not register?
#4
Posted 31 December 2003 - 09:25 AM
They think they can explain this whole mess when Mace Windu and Yoda talk and say that their ability to use the force has diminished. That is so bogus. It's God damn Yoda for God's sake!
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#5
Posted 31 December 2003 - 11:05 AM
I completely agree that Yoda becomes a bumbling idiot not noticing the Sith Lord standing right next to him.
I concur. however he bumbles less on that hover chair. (plus, it's easier to film! "add it to the post-production checklist" "but sir, that checklist is larger than the script" "you have failed me for the last time. Next!")
I do remember detecting Yoda making a face, but it seemed to me the grimace of a senile (lovable) old man. "those damn kids today, telling jedi mine what to do. gas I have. bloating. feeling old I am, sick of this series like our aud-ience, hmmmm?"
#6
Posted 02 January 2004 - 10:38 AM
Precisely. The key word here is almost. The Jedi, like everything else in nature, are not perfect nor are they unstoppable (that includes Yoda). So why is it so unbelievable that Palpatine, the equivalent of a Jedi Master, is able to shield himself from them? While I agree that Lucas did not flesh out the idea of the Force well enough to make this point understood, I don't think it's that big a deal, nor do I believe that it is so inconceivable a notion.
We saw the same thing happen in Frank Herbert's Dune series: Paul Muadib, who was a messianic figure with the power to know everything about the past and the present, was unaware of the plot being hatched against him in the second book of the series. The difference between FH and GL, however, is that Herbert bothered to explain the reasons behind this, which did make sense.
If Paul's ability to know everything about the past and present has it's limitations, why can't the abilities of the Jedi also have limitations as well?
#7
Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:01 AM
#10
Posted 02 January 2004 - 02:53 PM
If that were the case, the prequels wouldn't waste so much time lovingly introducing characters we already know and making references to films we've already seen. The only way any of these references work is if we've seen the series out of order; Lucas is banking on that. I'm also pretty sure a clever director trying to make the prequels so they could be seen out of order wouldn't have had young Anikin cast the as-yet-nonexistent Darth Vader's shadow. I think what happened here is Lucas read somewhere that a series should have "foreshadowing," but he didn't know what the word meant.
Watching the series in order, if I'd never seen it, there are two things I would like to be surprised by in EMPIRE:
1) That little goblin is actually Yoda, the Jedi Master Ben told Luke to seek out.
2) Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father.
These were great moments in EMPIRE, but if seen as moments in "Episode V," they come off as lame timekillers. The audience is out there saying "Well duh!" and "When is Luke going to find out?" My biggest complaints about PM were that Yoda was present and that Anikin was a main character (and a little kid). Like Chefelf complains in his list for AOTC, there is no process of discovery in these films; we are being spoonfed exposition long before we need it. The prequels are making the OT worse by association.
#11
Posted 02 January 2004 - 03:59 PM
I mentioned this before----- When I watch the OT I do not make the connection with the prequels. I don't look at Darth Vader and think of that little boy who pod raced. I don't look at C3PO as an Anakin Skywalker creation. My brain will not let me relate the two trilogys. And for that I m thankful.
#12
Posted 02 January 2004 - 05:00 PM
1) That little goblin is actually Yoda, the Jedi Master Ben told Luke to seek out.
2) Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father.
These were great moments in EMPIRE, but if seen as moments in "Episode V," they come off as lame timekillers. The audience is out there saying "Well duh!" and "When is Luke going to find out?"
yes, but unfortunately we've been screwed. unless gl removes those 2 sequences from his *final edition* eps 4-6, it's either "d'uh we know this" or "d'uh, we know that." I'm not trying to defend the guy, but there has to be some reasoning behind his lack of consistancy. and permanent lapse of reason.
maybe instead of the prequels, he should have had the whole empire uprising, rebels stirring, jedi wars occur in eps 7-9. Never do 1-3, and have do it as a cyclical thing. Like Wagner's Ring Cycle. I could of stood him renumbering Ep 4 again, ANYTHING's an improvement upon this crap we've had lately.
I like the part where in the credits it says to let LFL know if the projectionist has failed to do his job. If he's done his job right, in all liklihood you ought to have left the theatre long ago.
#13
Posted 03 January 2004 - 01:44 PM
Also, the way Lucas set the prequels is ridiculous if he wants them watched in order. Think about it. In Episode II, they show the Death Star plans. We're supposed to assume they wait 20 YEARS before building the thing, when it took 4 years to build the second one? Also, the beginning of Ep IV is It is a Period of Civil War. The Rebel Alliance has won its first victory against the evil Empire. Someone who has just watched the prequels will be saying, "WHAT?" They don't know about any rebel alliance, or evil empire, or any of this stuff. They've just come from 18 years before! It's ridiculous to watch it in order, because then it doesn't even make sense. They are separate trilogies, no matter how good or redeeming Ep III is, they will REMAIN separate trilogies.
#14
Posted 03 January 2004 - 02:10 PM
#15
Posted 04 January 2004 - 10:38 PM
I mentioned this before----- When I watch the OT I do not make the connection with the prequels. I don't look at Darth Vader and think of that little boy who pod raced. I don't look at C3PO as an Anakin Skywalker creation. My brain will not let me relate the two trilogys. And for that I m thankful.
I totally agree. I cannot see how Anakin (big or small) becomes Vader. My mind will not allow it.
Unfortunately, what this prequel is doing is disdaining my interest in teh whole SW saga..not just the prequels.
I think I have made this comparison before:
Geroge Lucas has become Michael Jackson (w/o the pedophilia and surgery). Both did their best work in 1983 and have lived off it ever since. Both are surrounded by yes men who refuse to offer constructive criticism.