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The debate forum declaration of independence We're forming our own government!

#76 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:19 AM

Hey! This dosn't look like people trying to form a strong government in order to create order. This looks like sugar coated fascism! Blargh I was a fool to trust you wretched villains.

People of Debatia! Lend me your ears! The SupCorBar coalition are not the true representatives of the people. It is the SlaLecHof party that truly has your interests in mind. I am running for prime minister with a one week term. Not for dictator for life. I will not give in to power hunger and evil, even if it offers me a bushel of quangos!

Liberty! Enfranchisement! Fraternity! Saying no to quangos! That's how we'll run debatia. I submit my case to a vote before parliament. At the moment the vote seems to be between the triumverate and the coalition of communists, anarchists, socialists, and Slade.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#77 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:28 AM

Laughlyn, Jordan and Mushroom- I need your votes! If you join with my coalition we will have an easy majority, and you don't necessarily have to vote with us all the time, just try to cooperate. Your parties can still remain independent, but will still have a greater say as part of the ruling coalition. And really, look at the alternative.

Supes- Do you really want to get dragged down by these two folks? One of them is an admitted evil overlord and the other is a scheming behind the scenes person? Let's face it, you don't belong with them. You're more than a front man. We all respect you as a person, and not just a well of charisma and sexual attraction that makes you irresistible. If you join our party I'd be willing to offer you a position to follow me as prime minister when my 1 week term is up.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#78 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:39 AM

JM – I’d rather die than live again under communist rule. Baware, you are talking bloodshed here, remember what Barend said.

I have a proposition for you – how about single- handedly controlling the manufacturing of wep – on together with controlling the x - port licence and right to put embargo on certain countries?

Jordan – you will be in charge of petrochemical industry, to go with your engineering education.

Oh, and JM, don’t try to sway Supes, he is the one who brought me into this, do you think he’ll back down now.

Laughlyn – how about controlling the media? I will put you in charge of the commitee who decides on licences to broadcast.

Mushroom –I rather think you fancy the food market, you will be in charge of the government body giving subsidies to farmers.
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#79 User is offline   Laughlyn Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:21 AM

oh, I feel like a swing state......

I'm afraid I'm going to have to throw my vote in with the idealistic democracy, despite my all round lack of faith in the system. Regardless of the stability and control that a dictatorship brings, it's the potential abuse of power that bothers me. Now that we're free of Chefelfs evil rule, shouldn't we be more wary of appointing another tyrant? (or group of tyrants).

The vote rests with the SlaLecHof camp for now (mainly because it's the best way to ensure I have a vote in future.)

Oh and JM, despite the long hair, I'm a guy. Less of the 'her' stuff please, last person to make that mistake lost 2 teeth and I lost my bar job.
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#80 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 08:04 AM

Laughlyn – I am a tad disappointed that you are a guy. Otherwise I might have set Supes to work his charms on you (which are manifold), but as you are not, I have to appeal to your reason.

Do you really want to give the power to the people? Bear in mind that when power goes to the people, they give it back to the likes of George Bush. And what sort of program these alleged “democrats” have? None! Their program is the anarchy! If you give the reign to JM Hoffmarn even for one week, he will plunge the Debatia into a state of chaos. Before anyone entitled will voice their opinions, the term will be up and they would have to start again scraping up some sort of policy.

This is not a good way to proceed in these times of turmoil. The young democracy has to be protected, even against itself! And that is what SupCorBar coalition is for!

So, if the media are not enough for you, how about a very, very lucrative contract for the delivery of stationery and office equipment and furniture to ALL governmental agencies and local authorities for thirty years? Or if such job seems menial for you and you aspire to bigger things, I will put you in charge of the national opera house. No more tending the bar! Gee, mate, have a go at it, give in. Democracy is not something you would like to die for. Love is.
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#81 User is offline   Mushroom Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:23 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 27 2005, 10:19 AM)
At the moment the vote seems to be between the triumverate and the coalition of communists, anarchists, socialists, and Slade.

No choice in that case is there?
My vote's with you.

If democracy is to reign, we have to work at creating a system of government. The triumvirate simply wants to appoint themselves leaders and tell everyone else what to do!

farming... honestly! *grumbles*

This post has been edited by Mushroom: 27 January 2005 - 10:26 AM

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#82 User is offline   Laughlyn Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:33 AM

As tempting as the bribery may be. I'm afraid I'm going to have to stand my ground. A young democracy does need protection, but appointing power to a dictator doesn't always lead to that. It may guarentee me a comfortable lifestyle within the ruling party, but ultimately it may lead to abuse of power, and in turn damage the very society were are trying to create.

I'm not saying that giving JM Hoffmann control won't result in this, only that he deserves a chance at power, should he make mistakes and plunge us into anarchy, via a democracy we have the power to remove him from office, whereas in a dictatorship we do not. People vote for what they believe, and if that turns out to be wrong, a country must learn from the mistakes it makes.
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#83 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 12:06 PM

Well, you people are strange. You’ve been debating for four pages about government and did not seem to come up with even one plausible and viable solution or idea. You cold not even agree what is a hatred group and how to fight them. Communist-socialist-anarchist-Slade indeed! In real life, such coalition would not survive one budget debate.

And then SupCorBar comes along, offers you user-friendly triumvirate that shares power with people, keeps up appearances by means of parliament, is all for welfare and low taxes and welcomes suggestions and what happens –and instead of negotiations, diplomacy, petitions and dialogue all of sudden everybody is on us lie a ton of bricks!!

And what is your argument – that we are dictators!Y ou , who are all for democracy, you are not fighting with arguments, but stick to a mere name that means nothing – democracy! None of you told me, look Madam, your idea is stupid because of such an such fallacies of your solution. You just shout – democracy o muerte!

Demos, dear friends, means people. “People” also include me, and Supes, and Barend. Just delegate your power to us, what else do you do in general elections!

Unless – unless you object to SupCorBar on mere grounds that I am a woman, huh? As far as I know, there is not even one woman among you. Therefore SupCorBar is a better representation of society, since it reflects all sexes.

And I tell you what. I’d rather die than have someone like Hannibal rule Debatia. I’d rather emigrate to Game Room.
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#84 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:23 PM

I said the idea was absurd because dictatorship leads to the abuse of power, as did Laughlyn... Democracy is at least an attempt at being fair... And JM, why did you act so surprised when they explicitly told us that they were going to be Dictators for Life? That seemed obvious to begin with...

And how on Earth did I manage to get thrown in with different political ideaologies? Communists, socialists, anarchists, and Slade... That doesn't seem to make sense. Unless I somehow represent some sort of new school of political thought on my own... Which would be cool, but I doubt it's the case.

And don't knock Hannibal. He'd make things interesting, I'm sure.
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#85 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:05 PM

Well it looks like I have a majority here, considering the nonaligned voters and my own coalition. My first action is naturally to declare (with the approval of the parliament) debatia to be a democracy for the people wherein they shall be represented by parliament. Parliament shall vote every week for a prime minister and no prime minister may hold office consecutively. There will be no executive branch yet (again, to protect against dictatorship) and a court will be devised later. All in favor?

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#86 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:55 PM

people hear me...

the coalition is your friend and future...
we are also brutally honest about our intentions, we are not sugar coating anything, if anything we're more salt coated. and we wear a fine glaze of responsibility...

you need us, to brutalize idiots, evicerate the greedy, perform experimental surgery on the leaders who made us work to bone for the honor of paying tax to fund wars on civillians who's only crime was being born on top of fossil fuel deposits in the age of the all important leaf-blower...

the society we offer you will be cleaner, and more natural...
no more tastles tomatoes raised hydroponically, all entertainment will be delivered via cable as radio waves disrupt the cohesion of celular stability - prime sorce of cancer and lukemia, the only thing coal will be used for is making diamonds (which admitedly we'll probably keep for our selves so we don't have to tax you so badly)...

this is system of evil you fear?

i am only evil by default...
in a psychopathic misinterpretation of christianity run world.

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besides which "SlaLecHof" sounds too much like 'Sarlac of Hoth'
and i think we all agree... that's damn scary!

so do not listen to Hofmarn... he's trying to get you beaten up!!!

----------------------

and Laughlyn we'll replace your bar job with a bar-end job
(same thing, better pay and only three people to serve)
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#87 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:25 PM

Your coalition shall not be the future while the pillars of our brave democracy yet stand, Flame of Udun!

Anyhow, I take that as one vote against my democracy motion and one vote in favor. It's a tie so far and I leave it up to the representatives of the Debatian people to break this tie, and break the feet of tyranny before they gain a foothold. Do you hear me my friends? We must break their feet! Break them good!

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#88 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:27 PM

You can't declare a democracy and then throw in parliment, because then you don't have a democracy any more. It's a republic. I'll support a democratic republic if I can be on parliment the first time around.

Edit: Sorry, SupCorBer, I have to decline your quangos, although if I ever switched sides, I'd love to be head of the environmental department. But I won't, so I'll to stick with whatever we're doing over here.

This post has been edited by Slade: 27 January 2005 - 06:30 PM

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#89 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:37 PM

Slade- that's a good point, but we cant very well have the billions of people in Debatia all trying to write a constitution, so for now we must have a parliament and after the government is set up it can and must be turned over to the people. Our struggle is two fold. First to create a just government body that is incapable of doing harm and yet capable of much good and completely beholden to the people but still able to protect them. The second task shall be to throw away power once we have done our jobs, to cast the ring into Mount Doom so to speak. I'm glad that you have chosen to join me in this task.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#90 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:37 PM

And you can't trust three dictators, even if they are supposedly being "honest" and "open" with their "evil plans." There's nothing to stop them from tearing down everything we hold dear once they gain power, and nothing to guarantee that they maintain their promises. At least with us, you know we've got to keep you happy to stay in office, and that means at the very least pretending to do what you want. Do you really want someone running your lives and constantly reminding you that you're entirely subjected to the random whims of a very few?
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