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The debate forum declaration of independence We're forming our own government!

#61 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:03 PM

I won't stand by and allow another oligarchy to form. Rally the troops, gather the resitance, it's civil war time!
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#62 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:06 PM

Slade- By waging war you have weakened our negotiating position. We need to try to keep a place in the government. Perhaps its best to have a dictator until things settle down, and your war will only give them an excuse to strengthen their powers.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
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#63 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:07 PM

i'm going to make this very simple...

vote for me.

or get beaten up.
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#64 User is offline   Laughlyn Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:32 PM

It might be a little late for the paranoid liberal observer to be entering in on this debate, but what's to stop you from beating them up with the big stick of ultimate power AFTER they've voted for you? Isn't part of the point of a dictatorship that once you're in power you can silence the opposition?
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#65 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:34 PM

Laughlyn makes a good point, and assuming her vote is against dictatorship that gives them t he majority. I encourage all of you other dictatorship people to go with democracy. I'm sure we can achieve a lot through those means as well.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#66 User is offline   Mushroom Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 09:21 PM

If the choice is simply between democracy and dictatorship then haven't we already regressed to the creation of a two party system (albeit in the lesser form of having two interest groups)?
You cannot codify a dictatorship. Even Soviet Russia under the most crippling tyranny of the Stalinist era had the Stalin Constitution, even if they did not adhere to it. To codify a dictatorship is to openly invite civil war and destabilise the country in the long run. Dictatorship is not an option in these circumstances because we all have our fair and equal say. Shame on you, HofMarN, for laying down in the face of unbridled power!
If anything, the job of the dictatorial triumvirate is to go along with the democratic methods within this constitution writing process and then usurp any flaws in it afterwards - if possible - to their own ends. That will test not only the ability of those individuals to disrupt the process of a rational constitution settlement but also test the methods that will doubtless be put in place by the constitution to prevent such an occurance.
My vote it firmly with the democratic way of thinking, and i will not, even for the last drop of blood in my body, lie down and accept dictatorship!
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#67 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 09:29 PM

We have nothing. A couple of us have chimmed on about Freedom Of Speech. Some of us are going off with dictatorships. It's just not adding up here.

Some body or group (supes, barend, Madam) need to come out and layout the foundations. The rest need to sit back and then anaylize.

It's basic design process people.

What's the Problem, what is the need?

Once we've figured that out, then the real work can begin.

What are our limitations, what do we have to work with, what are the potential obstacles, etc...

Then from that we build a model. And then analysis of the model can begin. Break it down into smaller components and solve each on indivdually.

the design cycle is indeed a cyclye. You keep going in a loop of analysis/systhsis. At the end of each iteration, you ask yourself "have addressed the problem?"
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#68 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 10:04 PM

Mushroom- You make a good point, but it seems that with all the partisian argument a dictatorship might have helped and, considering that they held a momentary majority, I thought it might be in the best interests of the people to try to forge some form of alliance with the dictators to be, and to make a gesture.

Anyhow, since only three people are in favor and we have six opposed that gives the people supporting a democratic form of government a two thirds majority. I think we need a leader for our convention, and I'd like to be that leader. I ask for my party's support, and that of all other delegates, in seeking the position of prime minister of the Debatian parliament.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#69 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 10:48 PM


"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
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#70 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:39 AM

I guess... uh... Hannibal is supporting anarchy? I'm kinda on the edge about choosing you as some sort of leader. You've already shown you're keen on hopping on the winning side... How do we know you're not going to just change your mind everytime something else looks like it would put you ina better position?
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#71 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:46 AM

It wasnt so much trying to win as to hedge my bet. The situation at the time seemed as though those for dictatorship might win out and I thought it would be prudent for the democratic folks to have a say in that government if it arose. I am surely not a waffler. I do not flip flop. However if the need should arise to change a policy of mine that is wrong I will certainly do so, and none of my policies will be implemented without a majority vote in the parliament. Besides, it's good to be friendly with out totalitarian friends as we might need them for an eventual coalition government.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#72 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:34 AM

Oh, so JM supports us, is he now? Great! Oh no... there was a whole another page and he isn't.

But the democracy thing is still rather feeble, huh? SO I am relying on you folks on being lazy and just accept what Barend, Supes and me have come up with:


You see, Slade, things really won’t be that bad under the joint supervision of Barend, Supes and me. I have given it a serious thought and here how it all will be organised.

First of all, Barend is our Evil man, so since he is used to this, we’ll keep it that way. So he will be made responsible for all the unpopular decisions (see his post above with set of punishable activities!). We will all be saying, Gee, folks, sure we would revoke this law, but the Evil Barend does not allow us, and the army supports him! So he will be the scapegoat, something to hate for the masses (they need it!).

Now Supes here, he is really a good looking guy. Let him grow hair a little (none of this crew cut look!), dress in blue and send round on conventions. He will sweet talk the ladies, hold babies and shake hands with guys. Our own Supes-hero! Everyone will love him! He’ll make speeches like there’s not tomorrow and play golf. Everyone will identify with him.

Well, as to me, I am not much to look at and I am a woman. They will be saying that I am kept in the triumvirate for political correctness only and officially I will wield no power whatsoever. But in fact, it will be me who will orchestrate the whole country.

I will keep the taxes low, make sure that the citizens have the access to reliable and cheap public transport.
I will control all the quangos and use them wisely, so all my enemies will be placated and would never stir a finger to overthrow us.

I will introduce obligatory empathy courses in primary and secondary school. The rate of mugging and theft will therefore be radically decreased.

I will introduce the book “1000 things you never wanted to know about sex but was forced to know” as a compulsory read for teenagers in school and I am sure the pregnancy rate among teenagers will also decrease dramatically.

And I am willing to listen to any sensible propositions. Ok, and I will keep the parliament, the TV transmission are cheaper than producing another soap opera, and they are equally popular.
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#73 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 03:04 AM

Heh, do you have pics of yourself Ms. Corvax? I have a fuzzy pic of someone in my head that might have been you, curly red haired woman, possibly on a beach or rocky hill or something, but I don't know where it got to on the forums...

Your idea is ingenious and delightfully cynical, but I still won't buy it. You may make me laugh and cry at the same time (as all humor in this vein does), but I'm not going to live under the rule of a bunch of dictators. Maybe I've just read too much Orwell and seen too much of the world, but I'm not budging.

Unless you give me lots and lots of quangos. I don't know/care what they are, I just want some.

Why not just tell the teens to use birth control or abstain? (Yeah right. Abstain... Like that would ever work.)
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#74 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 04:18 AM

and the choice isn't between democracy and a dictaorship

it's a choice between a dictatorship and getting beaten up.
but once we're in you'll thank us... tongue.gif

but seriously...
the way i see the joint venture tri-dictatorship is as MC said but define a little more...

The SupCorBar Coalition.

NAME: Supes
AREA: GOOD
DEPT: Dicplomacy
Signet: innocent.gif

NAME: Madam Corvax
AREA: NEUTRAL
DEPT: Democracy*
Signet: geek.gif

NAME: Barend
AREA: EVIL
DEPT: Autocracy
Signet: pirate.gif

*all things that you love about it anyway (like being lead to beleive you have choice and freedom- by dangeling superficial options in your face)

As you can see all areas are covered, by our ruling government.

------------------------------------
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#75 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 04:28 AM

Slade – No, I am not a red-haired woman on the beach. I wish I were, though. If you look at page 18 of the Photo album there is a picture of me with a bow. You can’t see much but it will give you the general idea.

But I am glad you warm up to the idea of triumvirate. You see, if people have wide roads and clean cities, who would need freedom of speech? A bunch of geeky dissidents, an absolute minority, and there are always dissatisfied people in every system, so it doesn’t count.
Well, in my country they overthrew the communism not because the freedom of speech was violated, but because there was not enough pork and ham in shops. I swear this is the truth.

As to teaching birth control, well, you can’t really. This is immoral, you see. You are not the one to support the civilisation of death, are you? This wouldn’t go down very well with the religious zealots, and religion is really important factor in controlling people. If you show people how to do it in a safe way, they will do it, only they will forget the safety part and there you are, stuck with the problem. And as you admit yourself, abstinence never works. So the only thing is to use a deterrent, so nobody would WANT to do it.

What sort of quangos are you interested in?. I would put you in charge of public transport- lots and lots of lucrative contracts to be got for your friends and family, they are always repairing roads and buying new carriages. I would throw in being in charge of permits to exploit natural resources – you wouldn’t turn that down, would you?

In lieu of SupCorBar Coalition
Madam Corvax geek.gif

P.S. I am also preparing propositions for JM and Jordan, if they are interested.

This post has been edited by Madam Corvax: 27 January 2005 - 04:28 AM

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