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The debate forum declaration of independence We're forming our own government!

#106 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 06:11 PM

QUOTE (Slade @ Jan 28 2005, 09:44 AM)
The problem is that there's nothing to stop future dictators from imposing tyranny.

Supes, your argument boils down to this: "Pick the triumverate dictatorship, because we're with you on the issues! Those crazy SlaLecHofJMLaughs haven't even said what they are going to do!" Give us a good reason to support the form of government before you go around saying what your government will do. Can we keep on the subject at hand for two seconds?


To the first point. You are completely correct Slade, and you'll also should note that this is exactly what I outlined when I first pitched by stance as a dictator. I am well aware of the danger associate with future rulers misusing their power. In fact, I believe I pretty much said that this is what would inevitably happen. What I'm stating is that it will not be the case while I'm in control. I and my collegues will do all that we can to ensure that when power is handed over it is handed to individuals of like minds to ourselves. In all reality, we would be handing over to individuals such as SlaLecHofJMLaughs. However, I am not so naieve to assume that such passing of the baton, so to speak, would always lead to the correct people being in place in the future. History simply does not bare out this idea. But it does not mean that a democratic approach is going to be any more successful. In fact I believe it will lead to the usurping of control and a degredation in the basic services we're all looking to provide much more rapidly. Look at the democracies we currently have. These are the thins that Hoffman is so often raging against for the inequities that they promote. It's almost impossible to get anything of any substance (except for going to wars) because of the continued fight to stay in power and maintaining the popularity vote with the people.

As to the second point. Well I believe I've explained this earlier and also in this little mini rant. I simply believe that the Triumvirate I've proposed and the people I have called into it will work for the betterment of all. There is no need to squabble for power and constantly look over ones shoulder at the opposing party. There isn't one. We can concentrate on making sure that we are not just coming up with ways to improve the lives of all, but we can actually get to and do it. We can actually take the time to listen to what it is that people are asking for and can really critically weigh up the pros and cons. As mentioned before, we are not looking to supress peoples voice, but rather give it a more potent means of being heard.

We cannot control what future generations choose, but we can try to provide them with a positive set of role models and a positive structure in which to continue that development.

So let me know what else you would like to see from us. We have not advocate inflexability in any way. Talk to us about what you would like to see and it's more than likely that we can incorporate some of your own vision in the way we do things. It is far easier for three constant people to discuss and make descisions that it is for a parliment of 50 to 100 regularly changing men and women. The idea of the tirumvirate actually ensures that no single individual has absolute power. I suppose for this reason I should be recanting the use of dictatorship, because it has ceasecto be this from the moment I invited Barend and Madam Corvax. It simply is the SupCorBar Triumvirate.
Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter.
Yoda
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#107 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:53 PM

Slade- Hannibal is a fine debatian and a good friend. We should surely give him a high post in our government, though I will grudgingly negotiate his status within our alliance... If certain requirements are met.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#108 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 12:05 AM

Its true, and he's got a large demographic; they are swing votes...

This post has been edited by Slade: 29 January 2005 - 12:05 AM

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#109 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 12:20 AM

Well since all the votes are in I am proud to take office as Debatia's first prime minister. I am taking the solemn oath to serve my nation Saturday at 12 09 AM and I will surrender my powers in precisely one week. As my first duty I will need to form a majority in parliament. I believe that having the votes of democracy supporters and my own alliance gives me a sound majority. However, rather than simply reward the posts of my cabinet to my most ardent supporters I would like to have people from the factions represented in my cabinet posts.

There are three posts to fill:

Foreign relations (In charge of the military and diplomacy)

Justice (In charge of the courts and laws, Parliament for the time being will serve as the country's highest court)

Interior department (In charge of the economy and civil improvement)

I would like to have a representative from the independents (such as laughlyn, mushroom, Hannibal, etc), the coalition, and my own alliance, each fill one of these positions. However, if people have staunch opposition to one asking for the post I will gladly discuss it with them.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#110 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 03:49 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Jan 29 2005, 05:20 AM)
Justice (In charge of the courts and laws, Parliament for the time being will serve as the country's highest court)

Yaaaaaaaaaa (on a side note- I'm busy with my gf for a few days and I miss an entire election?)

This post has been edited by Dr Lecter: 29 January 2005 - 03:50 AM

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#111 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 08:42 AM

Dear JM,

In view of your recent self-election I will quote a fine Russian proverb which goes as follows:

"Somozvantzov nam nie nada - kamandirom budu ja",

which in free translation is:

"We don't need any usurpers, therefore I will be in command"

Just before you start giving quangos to you henchmen, I beg you for a quiet moment of self reflection over this very wise adage.

And people of Debatia - are you really in favour of a guy who first sets up police force and threatens political opposition with arrest? Think twice!
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#112 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 09:46 AM

What the... I thought JM was a communist/anarchist/liberal...
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#113 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 11:45 AM

the repressive nature of our current existence in modern society is the result of easily pleased content idiots, who if were given the choice would let you die if it ment an extra $20 in their pocket, as long as they didn't have to do it themselves...

make no mistakes... the majority of society are the enemy of all free thinkers, artistic types, and anyone who yearns for freedom.

intelligent people are in a minority. we are here to defend those people... and the stupid people can continue being slaves who are kept in thier thralldom by flashing lights, television, and having the freedom to choose the color of their cell-phone...

we are makinds only hope...

democracy has failed (for the above mentioned reason)
the people are easily bought.


--------------------------

i'm sorry if anyone was under the impression that that the two big guys were anything but janitors... and those sticks are broom sticks...
and that case better be dropped into lost and found by someone...
and hofmarn should appologise to them, for calling them crackheads...
such an elitist attitude assupmtion...

this is exactly the kind of opression i'm talking about... tongue.gif

This post has been edited by barend: 29 January 2005 - 11:46 AM

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#114 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 02:50 PM

I think we did vote for him, it was just scattered or something. I said I'd support him as long as he was sure not to confuse republic with democracy.

Barend - So you're looking more for a Farenheit 451 style government than a Stalinist, neo-Con, or 1984 style government? I'd be tempted to switch sides except for your total reversal on your RP'ing. What was with that, anyway?

This post has been edited by Slade: 29 January 2005 - 02:53 PM

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#115 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 03:22 PM

There was a vote and I won the majority. However the supcorbar coalition managed to cause enough chaos and in-fighting that many did not access the polls. It is because of SupCorBar that the police forces had to form, and Madam Corvax threatened to disrupt energy production, which at this time in winter would result in many of our people freezing to death. I have prevented those murders and I know that what I did was right.

Now then, I believe that if SupCorBar want some sort of order in society, if they are in fact against chaos, they will agree to negotiations with the rightful and elected government of Debatia. I am completely willing to work with the coalition on whatever plans they wish to undertake as long as those plans are enacted through democratic means and are not harmful. I believe we can all work together despite out differing ideas.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#116 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 03:43 PM

Hear hear. If you're willing to talk, I'm willing to listen.
This space for rent. Inquire within.
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#117 User is offline   Dr Lecter Icon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 04:02 AM

QUOTE (barend @ Jan 29 2005, 04:45 PM)
the repressive nature of our current existence in modern society is the result of easily pleased content idiots, who if were given the choice would let you die if it ment an extra $20 in their pocket, as long as they didn't have to do it themselves...

make no mistakes... the majority of society are the enemy of all free thinkers, artistic types, and anyone who yearns for freedom.

intelligent people are in a minority. we are here to defend those people... and the stupid people can continue being slaves who are kept in thier thralldom by flashing lights, television, and having the freedom to choose the color of their cell-phone...

we are makinds only hope...

democracy has failed (for the above mentioned reason)
the people are easily bought.
--------------------------

i'm sorry if anyone was under the impression that that the two big guys were anything but janitors...  and those sticks are broom sticks...
and that case better be dropped into lost and found by someone...
and hofmarn should appologise to them, for calling them crackheads...
such an elitist attitude assupmtion...

this is exactly the kind of opression i'm talking about... tongue.gif

The reason why democracy has failed is not because democracy has failed. It is because it has stopped being democracy and become a dictorship.
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#118 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 05:45 PM

and majority of people (patriots, i believe their called) like it that way...

i'm mearly offering a better one.
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#119 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 06:09 PM

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and absolute corruption empowers the absolutists.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
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#120 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 10:11 PM

i am beyond that concearn...

i'm as evil as i'm going to get, so you know you can trust me with all that power...
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