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Stormtrooper Armor: the next best thing to cotton shirt!

#16 User is offline   Gerhard Icon

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 08:28 AM

The Endor battle in Jedi was very forced.

Besides the excellent points made here, there is something I'd like to had.

Lucas original "vision" (if there is one) was a final battle where a technological inferior species beats the Empire, this was 1973, the Vietnam was had just ended (for the U.S) with the U.S- Withdrawal

Lucas wanted to use this, originally with Wookies, then with half Wookies, Ewooks. The concept might work on paper, but even in the Vietnam war there was a reason for the less favorite to win, since it was difficult for US Army forces to fight in the jungle. So the Vietnam's had an advantage.

Now the Endor battle, the Ewooks battle face to face with stormtroopers and against the Walker's and lasers... There is no reason on why the Ewoks would win that one, no clear advantage. Besides how long did it took the battle in real time? one hour? It just sound over the top, it happens because it was written in the script, not because it would made sense happen (just like most of the stuff in the PT)

No wonder, when I watch Jedi, I always skip the Ewook battle straight into Luke vs Vader & Palpy.
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#17 User is offline   darth_paul Icon

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE
Anything that isn't colorful. Ash grey maybe. Check out the new Troopers featured in the new Star Wars Republic Commando game for some really sophisticated color schemes. Splattered blood being one. Let me show you our spring collection.
This game sort of pisses all over the idea that the clone troopers are actually clones since the members of the unit featured in the game are individuals, with individual voices. Morrison does the leaders voice. And they try even harder to make clone troopers cool. And these guys kick ass in a way Stormtroopers and AotC clonetroopers don't even get close too. Another contradiction? Surprise me, this does not...



Well, in RotS the lead clone is named, Commander Cody, so one can assume that by that time period perhaps even though they all still look and sound the same that perhaps there were bits of individuality that began to creep in among them. There's at least one other clone trooper that has an individual name that wasn't in any movie as far as I know, but I've seen an action figure for, and I believe his name is "Blaze". It just might be that he's a flamethrower guy, or it could actually be his name, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was his name and not just a descriptive codename - "Elan Sleazebaggano anyone?"
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#18 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 09:43 PM

QUOTE (Gerhard @ Jun 13 2006, 08:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Endor battle in Jedi was very forced.

Besides the excellent points made here, there is something I'd like to had.

Lucas original "vision" (if there is one) was a final battle where a technological inferior species beats the Empire, this was 1973, the Vietnam was had just ended (for the U.S) with the U.S- Withdrawal

Lucas wanted to use this, originally with Wookies, then with half Wookies, Ewooks. The concept might work on paper, but even in the Vietnam war there was a reason for the less favorite to win, since it was difficult for US Army forces to fight in the jungle. So the Vietnam's had an advantage.


there were alot more factors involved in the US's poor performance in vietnam...

loud music, aftershave, smoke (cigars, cigarettes, pot), the excessive amount of gear stored on their chest preventing crawling,....

they showed an overconfidence that still haunts the US today in most of their global combat.

the vietcong had assault rifles and explosives... they were on average a foot and a half shorter...
their only disadvantage was a lack of vehicles and boots.

the stormtroopers had blasters and walking tanks with blasters... the ewoks had fur... and sticks and stones. the combat supremacy gap between empire and ewok was far vaster than Government issue troops and vietcong. BY A LONG SHOT...

someone surly would have noticed that before filming.

ROTJ was when people stopped questioning George Lucas. Harrison Ford was the only one stood up to him, but no one had his back... and either way i'm glad Solo survived.
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#19 User is offline   Bissrok Icon

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 07:57 PM

Behold: A stormtrooper survivng a direct shot.

The Injured Stormtrooper
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#20 User is offline   diligent_d Icon

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 07:46 AM

QUOTE
Lucas wanted to use this, originally with Wookies, then with half Wookies, Ewooks. The concept might work on paper, but even in the Vietnam war there was a reason for the less favorite to win, since it was difficult for US Army forces to fight in the jungle. So the Vietnam's had an advantage.

Now the Endor battle, the Ewooks battle face to face with stormtroopers and against the Walker's and lasers... There is no reason on why the Ewoks would win that one, no clear advantage. Besides how long did it took the battle in real time? one hour? It just sound over the top, it happens because it was written in the script, not because it would made sense happen (just like most of the stuff in the PT)


I agree. The problem with Georges Endor/Vietnam comparison though is that the US won almost every tactical engagement in Vietnam in an overwhelming way. Even supposed Vietnamese victories such as Hue, Hamburger Hill, Khesahn or Tet in general were misleading. Hue had over 5,000 dead Vietnamese to America's 147. Khesahn had over 10,000 NV dead to fewer than 200 Americans. Hamburger Hill was 500 dead to America's 56. In one offensive (Tet), the Vietnamese lost almost as nearly many dead (45,000) as the US did during the entire war.

Strategically was why America lost the war, not tactically. Having to win the same territory over and over because their rules of engagement were aimless, having a media at home that mis-represented the actual battles, and fighting with one hand tied behind their back (reluctance to bomb Hanoi, reluctance to bomb troop bases in Cambodia, couldn't mine harbors, etc...) that was the problem. Both sides were brave, but the fact that the Vietnamese still fought despite the lop-sided amount of casualties they sustained, is incredible.

Point to this long diatribe is that the Imperials should have killed way more Ewoks than what they did in ROTJ. The battle of Endor should have had lop-sided losses in favor of the Imperials, but with the Ewoks/Wookies still finding a way to exploit a weakness of the Empire, an achilles heal (which Lucas sort of tried to do, with the natural terrain and booby traps and what not). Having a single Ewok die was complete bullshit. Probably would have required a bit more creative writing, but I don't think Lucas represented Vietnam very well with the Ewoks. In the actual film, the Ewoks literally routed the Stormtroopers with little losses. It just seemed too easy.
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#21 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Jun 13 2006, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
bumping this, because it came up recently and just stumbled upon it while looking for something else....

(PS... anyone remember where those medieval tapesty things are on these boards that we did?)


I remember that. I remember that I wanted to post one of those, but I couldn't because I didn't knew how to do it. Ah. Good times. smile.gif
Sorry, you won't be seeing a smartass sig here. Try with the next poster.
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#22 User is offline   Dorothy Icon

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 04:08 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Jun 13 2006, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(PS... anyone remember where those medieval tapesty things are on these boards that we did?)


QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jul 18 2006, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I remember that. I remember that I wanted to post one of those, but I couldn't because I didn't knew how to do it. Ah. Good times. smile.gif


These?
"The problem is, you're not a kangaroo... that's a bear... and he's in your pants."
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#23 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 09:35 PM

I loved those! Still, I was never successful in saving the file so I suppose it really was a waste of time.

Would've looked nice on a white cotton t-shirt.
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#24 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 09:57 PM

Back to the topic at hand...how in God's name is a Stormtrooper able to easily use the bathroom? No wonder their aim was always off...
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#25 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:45 PM

Good point.

On the other hand, remember the Ewok scenes?
They're used to pissing their pants.
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#26 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 10:44 AM

Maybe that's what that odd container on the back of their suit is for...ugh...
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#27 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 01:20 AM

no that's back up o2, water, and red licorice strip, for survival.
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#28 User is offline   georgelucas4greedo Icon

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 09:59 AM

QUOTE (diligent_d @ Jul 8 2006, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Point to this long diatribe is that the Imperials should have killed way more Ewoks than what they did in ROTJ. The battle of Endor should have had lop-sided losses in favor of the Imperials, but with the Ewoks/Wookies still finding a way to exploit a weakness of the Empire, an achilles heal (which Lucas sort of tried to do, with the natural terrain and booby traps and what not). Having a single Ewok die was complete bullshit.



I always assumed that every Ewok that hits the ground dies aside from the poor furball that goes back to the ill-fated wooly lump that was blown away by a lazar blast in an attempt to ressucitate the poor bastard. It makes the film more enjoyable. I also assumed that a lot more of them died offscreen.

The Battle of Endor wasnt much of a bloodbath anyway. It was mostly hand to hand combat that at best left a few Imperials dazed or unconscious. The only Imperials that got a raw deal were the nerdy guys with the knock off Vader helmuts in the AT-STs. Everyone else was pretty much a POW.
It seems like everyone is over the nitpicking. Too bad.
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#29 User is offline   MyPantsAreOnFire Icon

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 10:03 AM

POW's then, maybe...but even as a kid, seeing those empty Imperial helmets being used to make "beautiful" music at the end of the movie combined with what almost happened to the Rebels earlier really seemed to imply, to me, that the Ewoks ate the hell out of those Imps.

Or at least that's what I like to think. And The Rebels are too scared to do anything about it...it's the savage and flesh-hungry Ewoks that made the cast stand around clapping and posing for a yearbook photo in the final shot of one of the most inconic series of films in history...it's the only logical reason for that!

"Clap and smile, meat-bags!"
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#30 User is offline   Darth Player Icon

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 05:11 PM

But you need the helmets to cover the face to present a united front and show how massive the Empire's legion's are, as well as having the varied alien species part of one big, monolithic entity, but wait, they're all Captain Cody/Jango Fett clones so why do they need to wear a mask to hide their face if they all know they all look alike, unles the Emperor greets each one individually and gives them a small business sized card with a Cody pic on it, and "You And You Alone Are Special, Tell No One Else" making them think that only one of them looks like that and has the card. And if Han Solo was supposedly a Stormtrooper before skipping out on the Empire and hooking up with Chewbacca, does that mean now that he's a Cody clone and that Harrison Ford's estate is in danger of having his face digitally replaced with Temurra whatever the hell his name is?
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