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What are the Clone Wars? never mind what Lucas says now

#1 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 06:56 PM

The Clone Wars only really exist in one sentence in Star Wars, where Luke asks Ben Kenobi whether he fought in them. Somehow they've become important to fans' imaginations of what the past was like before the events of Star Wars. So what does everyone here think about them? What are they? Who's fighting whom?

I admit that I've no clear idea myself beside the vague conviction that the clones are the enemies.
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#2 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 07:03 PM

I definitely think the clones are the bad guys. That they appeared as Yoda's soldiers at the end of Episode II was awful.

I also thought that seeing how these movies are called Star Wars, it might have been a nice idea to actually start Episode I in the midst of them.

I always thought they'd be the dramatic backdrop to which the events preceeding Star Wars (or A New Hope for so many of you lads) took place.

I thought it'd be a crisis engulfing the entire galaxy, something that would rally young men from remote places like Tatooine, in much the same way as Australians went to fight in Europe in the first World War.

I never really thought who the cloners were. I was counting on Lucas to come along and explain everything...

and we all know how that went.

They could be backed by the brotherhood of the Sith or it could be an altogether outside threat that the future emperor just saw as an opportunity and used to his advantage.
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#3 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:02 PM

I kind of got the idea it would be a war between the clonemasters and the Republic, basically the clonemasters get their numbers up to crew their ships and fighters by cloning... an external force, (possibly a puppet of another external force, but not of Palpatine) that tries to destroy the Republic and is beaten back in a huge war.

For my Rememberer's Takes (I have a scanner now so I'm much closer to putting it up... possibly this weekend [yahoo!]), I had the idea that each individual clonemaster builds a big fortress, which is their palace and laboratory. They clone themselves over and over ad infinitum, most of the clones they use as servants and troops, but some of them they take as apprentices and teach the science of cloning and the clonemaster philosophy to them - basically it's an immortality cult.
They essentially believe that by cloning they renew themselves - also when you have a planet entirely peopled by you in all your myriad incarnations it is kind of cool.

The cloners in Episode II were just gentle, soft-spoken naive scientists - and even Jango doesn't seem menacing... there's a bit of an "aww! how sweet" moment where we're told that the only reward Jango took was to ask the Kamino to make him a son (tear)... He was supposed to be scary and silent - and also faceless - not only does he have a face, he also has an apartment and he may as well have a fishbowl considering how much potential he loses in that scene.

As for the Clone Army - they're just stormtroopers - hell they're good guys! How scary is that!
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#4 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:16 PM

I agree with the "external force" idea, Mnesymone. As I've mentioned before I like the idea that the Sith and their allies strike the Republic because they're taking advantage of its weakness after a hard-fought war that maybe the Republic just barely won; the clones don't need to be allied with the Sith.

And you've got some cool ideas there about a society of cloners. I look forward to seeing them worked out.

And as for Lucas's depiction of the clones in Episode II - ugh. They get like, what, five or ten minutes of screen time? Is it ever worked out who ordered the clone army to be formed? Maybe Lucas thinks he's giving the idea of devious plots; I think he's just muddled.

(Edited for spelling. Ugh, that's what I get for trying to dash out a short note after a large glass of port.)

This post has been edited by ernesttomlinson: 18 April 2005 - 10:20 PM

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#5 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:27 PM

I kind of thought that the Clonemasters would be allied with the Sith - the Sith get an army, the Clonemasters get a group of precognitive warriors - and with the Clonemasters search for power and immortality they would be perfectly happy to take the Sith - powerful and long-lived - in to learn something of the Force.
Essentially they are using each other, the Clonemasters think they're getting the better deal because they might learn the Sith arts, the Sith are getting the better deal because they are learning the Clonemaster's science.

It seems fair and logical to me... It also makes it seem more reasonable that Jedi would have fought in the Clone Wars if there were Sith Knights there.
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#6 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 11:38 PM

My impressions, and especially with some ideas rejected from the ESB screenplay, that Lando was a clone, and Leia didn't trust him because he was a clone. The idea never really panned out to anything, but it does give me the idea that the clones were an external threat.

With the intro of Boba and his armor and such, I kind of, in my mind, put the two together, surmising that the Mandalores were the Clonemasters.

I always figured the Jedi Knights would be against cloning, seeing it as an abomination, a perversion of nature, and a disturbance in the Force. I figured once the Clones were defeated, the Emperor would use the technology for himself to create armies to hunt down the Jedi.

I figured the Sith manipulated the Clonemasters, giving them the secret where to find the technology (which would've been Alderaan in my rewrites), and that's why Alderaan is being invaded by the Mandalores/Clonemasters.

Palpatine (in secret) would create the crisis. As the Mandalores/Clonemasters threat grew more and more, and the Jedi could not handle the situation, then the Palpatine would push for the Clone Ban to be dropped so armies can be created to counter the Clones (and then later used to take out the Jedi).

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 18 April 2005 - 11:45 PM

Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#7 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 10:47 AM

Well, it's so obvious many here have invested more thought and concern than GL.

IT's BS. GL might has well of started fresh with an alternate galaxy for his next trilogy.
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#8 User is offline   Private Zod Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:55 PM

Once again, the Clone Wars are a galactic battle reaching all over the universe. It is not something depiected on screen but in the comic books, cartoons, and novels. Should they have been done on screen, yes. However, I recommend to all picking some of the comics up to read for they are very well done and they actually spent more than an hour's thought on Anakins character.
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#9 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE (Private Zod @ Apr 19 2005, 05:55 PM)
Once again, the Clone Wars are a galactic battle reaching all over the universe.  It is not something depiected on screen but in the comic books, cartoons, and novels.  Should they have been done on screen, yes.  However, I recommend to all picking some of the comics up to read for they are very well done and they actually spent more than an hour's thought on Anakins character.


no. i refuse to read it b/c it will hurt too much. By definition EU should not be better than canon...yet it is.

QUOTE
I thought it'd be a crisis engulfing the entire galaxy, something that would rally young men from remote places like Tatooine, in much the same way as Australians went to fight in Europe in the first World War.


Once again the movie nearly writes itself. How many beautiful scenes can you imagine of a boy, from backwater planet, much like Luke, and learning about a massive conflict in the stars and getting swept away in it, against his friend Owen's advice. Maybe he could be 20 and in some sort of planetary militia that sends a contingent out to help the republic. Would Obi-Wan visit Tatooine looking for recruits?

Anyway you look at it...there should be more of a WAR in STAR WARS.
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#10 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 08:36 PM

I kind of thought that Anakin would have joined the military before the war - as some people do - for a bit of a job, a bit of space experience, maybe even to get into some government-sponsored university placement - his tour of duty would finish at the onset of the Clone Wars, so he would be allowed to go home - after being in one of the first battles of the war (some sort of big space battle, not armies of foot soldiers fighting in the desert [Damn Lucas]) - and Obi-Wan, who would also be at the battle in his capacity as General Kenobi would have sensed the Force in Anakin, and realising the need for Jedi Knights in the coming war would have gone to Tatooine to convince him to train as a Jedi.
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#11 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 09:08 PM

Once again the movie nearly writes itself. How many beautiful scenes can you imagine of a boy, from backwater planet, much like Luke, and learning about a massive conflict in the stars and getting swept away in it, against his friend Owen's advice. Maybe he could be 20 and in some sort of planetary militia that sends a contingent out to help the republic. Would Obi-Wan visit Tatooine looking for recruits?

I figured that Obi-Wan being on Tatooine would be a complete accident... crashlanded, damaged ship, what-have-you. With them forced to land on Tatooine because they were damaged was the only thing that made sense to me, but execution is everything, and Lucas failed. We didn't need to spend time on the stupid pod-races. We didn't need this involved "save Anakin the Slave" garbage.

1)Obi-Wan is forced to land on Tatooine for repairs.
2) He discovers Anakin, the only available mechanic/pilot who can help them.
3) He doesn't like his life on Tatooine, he wants to live out his fantasies of being a Jedi, of having adventures... he goes along... against his family's wishes.

Anakin being a soldier already just doesn't set right with me. I'm not sure why, but I'll figure it out.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#12 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 11:02 PM

I like the idea of Anakin being an experienced pilot already. It's more in keeping with the information we've been provided with in the original films.

Like a few of us have said, if Lucas actually took the time to watch his own movies and take a few notes, he would have figured out all of this.

Having contuinity errors that big in your own film series must be like forgetting the words to your own songs at a concert... something that should make you feel ashamed.

As for Obi Wan coming to Tatooine, it's quite feasible that he could deliberately go there for the express purpose of finding Anakin. And in many ways, I think I would quite like that.

Also on the matter of Obi Wan, we would need to do something with his relationship to Owen. Because in Star Wars, there is a lot of animosity between those two men - it can't be for nothing.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 20 April 2005 - 11:05 PM

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#13 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 11:35 PM

I like the idea of Anakin being an experienced pilot already.

In my rewrites, Anakin was (ala "Catch Me if You Can") sneaking on board freighters and flying them. They would find out and take him back home. I also show his flying skills when the pilot (Ric Olie) is killed by the Sith and they need to replace him. Anakin takes them to Coruscant.

As for the animosity between Owen and Obi-Wan, it only needs to be on Owen's part. He would see Obi-Wan as the symbol of all that is dangerous. They don't need to have a heated argument (and Obi-Wan being a calm, trained Jedi Knight that he is, would just listen to Owen, knowing that he is filled with fear). The exchange just needs to go like this:

Owen: You can't take him away from here. His place is here. His family is here!

Obi-Wan: I'm not taking him anywhere. It is his own choice.

Owen: (To Anakin) You shouldn't get involved. This is not your fight.

(Something like that)

Just to let you know. I'm really not trying to talk you out of your ideas. I'm actually trying to see if mine work for mine. So, actually, I am very eager to see what you come up with... as stated before... we are coming up with better tie-ins to the OT than Lucas is. thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 20 April 2005 - 11:40 PM

Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
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#14 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 12:05 AM

That's cool. I kind of figured something like that exchange myself.

I do hope though that Lucas has the sense to at least have Obi Wan and Owen meet in the next film, otherwise Owen's distrust of Obi Wan will be highly unfounded.


Incidentally, didn't you ever think that the two of them were brothers? I always thought that and a few other users said they felt the same way.

EDIT - Actually, you've reminded me of something. I'll go and dig up Mic Mac's "The Prequels According To Us" thread as all of this is becoming relevant.

Gosh, maybe we ought to get a prequel re-write sub-forum.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 21 April 2005 - 12:08 AM

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#15 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Apr 20 2005, 11:02 PM)
Having contuinity errors that big in your own film series must be like forgetting the words to your own songs at a concert... something that should make you feel ashamed.


And if the singer/songwriter makes up new words on the spot or starts singing baby talk, certainly his most ardent fans will ignore prior versions of the song. Right? He could never do anything possibly wrong. rolleyes.gif


Always prudent points, MG.
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