[Despondent]

But do brainy women want the marriage "prize?" I'm not sure.

(here's where I wrote my heartfelt post, but thought better of sharing it with everyone )

I guess what I'm saying in response is, brainy women in their late 30's/early 40's who are single: it ain't coincidental.

[Laura]

I think the reason why these allegedly 'intelligent' women aren't interested in men is because they lack intellect in other fields. Surely none of us are ready to claim that intelligence can be measured by a crappy test that only tests a portion of the a human's skills!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that women who are judged intelligent by standard tests are not intelligent when it comes to dating? As far as the "IQ tests don't test emotional intelligence" argument goes, I would agree with you, but if a person is intelligent in one arena that doesn't mean she is un-intelligent in another. It's not like you have a bank of skill points and the more you use in one area, the less you have for another.

Besides, in the context of this article, that wouldn't make sense, since men can apparently find romance AND score high on IQ tests.

When someone says that all men cheat, that is a lie, but most men atleast consider it, fantasize about it even though they don't want to, it's something that comes with the penis,, it wishes to take control.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a secret for you. Women fantasize too. But having fantasies and desires doesn't give you a right to act on them, no matter what kind of equipment you have. Some people get this, some people don't.

In my experience, gender doesn't really play into it. I think men find it easier and more acceptable to cop to having sexual desire, but that's it.

But do brainy women want the marriage "prize?" I'm not sure.

Good point. Marriage isn't for everyone. But that raises another interesting question-- why women don't want to get married, and men do.

[Madam Corvax]

Well, two things.

Are brainly women less attractive to men, or do they just know better not to marry? Good question. If the survey had been in my country, I'd opted for the former explanation. But given the fact it was done in England, I suppose the latter is more probable (or I hope it is).

And the second thing... Choosing beautiful women over brainly is not a good strategy if a guy wants intelligent and educated children. There have been surveys done too (can't remember the source now) that the intelligence of children is more correlated to intelligence and education level of mothers than fathers ("educate the woman and you'll educate the whole family").

[Laughlyn]

Are brainly women less attractive to men, or do they just know better not to marry? Good question. If the survey had been in my country, I'd opted for the former explanation. But given the fact it was done in England, I suppose the latter is more probable (or I hope it is).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The survey was done by Bristol uni (England, famous for it's drunk students) and 3 in Scotland (famous for it's drunks). So it's a little disproportionate. Based on the Scottish evidence, the vast teenage pregnacy rate, and the number of Chavs\Neds you see pushing a pram, it's probably not surprising that Smart women know better than to marry.
On the whole though, we're a cynical nation, and happy to avoid the 1 in 3 marridges that end in divorce.

[Chyld]

Well, two things.

Are brainly women less attractive to men, or do they just know better not to marry?

Good question. Speaking without thinking about it too hard, I'd rather have a cleverer girl than a attractiver (sp) one, but on the other hand the more intelligent the girlfriend, the more bitter the break-up I/we suffer. What we can read from this eludes me.

And the second thing... Choosing beautiful women over brainly is not a good strategy if a guy wants intelligent and educated children. There have been surveys done too (can't remember the source now) that the intelligence of children is more correlated to intelligence and education level of mothers than fathers ("educate the woman and you'll educate the whole family").

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to remember that one. It makes sense, he said quoting the familiar stereotype.

[Laura]

Speaking without thinking about it too hard, I'd rather have a cleverer girl than a attractiver (sp) one, but on the other hand the more intelligent the girlfriend, the more bitter the break-up I/we suffer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you figure?

[srmoore]

I wonder if i should point this out to the PhD student i recently went on a date with. Hrm.. probably not, might send te wrong signal or something....

But I will say this. I can totally believe what the research has shown.
But there are a few questions I have..
Did the smart women want to get married.. Maybe they don't care so much about finding their man?

Um. crap. I can't remember what the other question i had was.

I think a majority of guys are idiots (Not including most on this board, really... hehe) And they don't want to be challenged by a smart girl. I, for one, actually like smart girls

[Chyld]

How do you figure?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it might just be limited to me, and it might not be a direct correlation, but two of my old flames who were, to use the colloquial, "dumb bitches", and we all parted on amiable terms. I've been on and off arguing with what we'll call my biggest crush for years, and she's respectably smart. My ex girlfriend was clever as hell, and we're still arguing...

I'm assuming that this doesn't happen for anyone else then?

[kdogg]

Some people on this thread have stated that they prefer intelligence to physical attractiveness. A guy who doesn't want to date an intelligent, personable, yet physically unattractive girl would most likely be regarded as shallow. What about a guy who doesn't want to date a physically attractive, personable, yet unintelligent girl? Is he shallow too? I'm curious to see what others think about this.

[civilian_number_two]

I dated a really attractive, much younger, really dumb girl, once, for about three months. I'd never do it again.

I think this survey is interesting, and probably 100% accurate. Most of the 30-something career women I know who cry about how there are no men to date all have one thing in common: they have zero charisma and no personal interests. They just care about their careers. Going on a date with one of these women is like going to a job interview, except they never get to the part where they ask what you do with your spare time. Hey, lady! I'm not taking you to work! You wonder if you shouldn't just have forwarded your resume and spared yourself the hassle of selecting a decesnt table wine.

Don't worry, though, kids, I am not cynical, and I'm not single either. I think there is room out there for braininess and a little autonomy. But I think the article hit the nail on the head: there is a class of brainy women that has lost the ability to distinguish between what they need and what they think they need.

On the other hand, a lot of men in their 30s fantasize about or actively chase women in their early 20s. No, I don't get it either. But I know it's going on, and openly acknowledge it, before anyone, heaven forbid, chews my head off for the first half of this post.

[Despondent]

I'd always only dated attractive women (if there's no physical chemistry, forget it,) but when I truly felt spiritually led to this brainy chick, I earnestly pursued her. I even married her.

five years later, we'd drifted apart and she wanted out; good thing too. By the end I couldn't even LOOK at her (yet remained the faithful hugsband.) does that make me shallow?

Now I'm trying to go after a brainly (yet attractive, with shared interests) girl who is really too busy for a relationship. Garn, it's frustrating.

Have I shared my new credo?: "this way when I meet the love of my life I won't be married at the time"

[Laura]

Well, it might just be limited to me, and it might not be a direct correlation, but two of my old flames who were, to use the colloquial, "dumb bitches", and we all parted on amiable terms. I've been on and off arguing with what we'll call my biggest crush for years, and she's respectably smart. My ex girlfriend was clever as hell, and we're still arguing...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this has less to do with the intelligence of the women in and of itself and more to do with your personal values of attributes of romantic partners. I get the impression you tend to like smart girls. So basically I feel like you're saying "If you date people you don't like that much, you'll only have smooth breakups." Well, yeah.

I mean, if you break up with someone the moment you have a problem, then yes, you had a problem free relationship. If, on the other hand, you value the relationship enough to make it through the rocky times, then you'll have had a relationship with problems. So does that mean you should only date people with whom you won't care to do the difficult patching-up?

What about a guy who doesn't want to date a physically attractive, personable, yet unintelligent girl? Is he shallow too?

I believe that, colloquially, the word "deep" refers to intelligence and "shallow" refers to lack of intelligence. So a guy who prefers intelligence to physical beauty would be considered deep, but not the other way around. That's not to say that intelligence is objectively better than attractiveness-- when it comes to choosing partners, it all depends on the value systems of the two individuals, and it's totally cool that some people value one or the other more. Still, the words "deep" and "shallow" have specific intelligence-related connotations.

Finally, Civ 2, I think your identification of the "career driven woman with no outside interests" is equally applicable to men, and does not necessarily have anything solid to do with intelligence. I mean, dumb people can be successful in careers, too. I feel like truly intelligent people have a variety of interests and creative pursuits. (Although it's possible that the kinds of intelligence that are tested standardly are the same kinds that are valued in high-level jobs.)

Finally, the thing about how there are women who "can't distinguish what they need from what they think they need"-- that's true of HUMANITY, dude. TONS and TONS of men have no fucking clue what they really need.

This post has been edited by Laura: 13 January 2005 - 02:30 PM

[Jen]

Listen, I think we're running aground in a debate that has no answer -- on an individual basis, who we attract and to whom we are attracted is a factor of time, place, luck, timing and background. But we're talking about numbers, here -- numbers that seem to demonstrate a sociological fact, namely, the numbers seem to show that, as measured by IQ, the smarter the woman, the less likely she is to marry.

I think that statement brings up a larger, more interesting issue that we haven't really addressed in depth -- Why? Is it because women with higher IQs are less attracted to getting married? Is it because they have a harder time finding men who they want to marry, who also want to marry them? If the first is true, why would smarter women not want to get married? And if the second is true, why do smarter women have a harder time finding a mate? That's what I find fascinating.

There are a few answers that come popping off the top of my head, answers that relate to the construction of gender and gender roles in modern Western society (the only I can speak to in an informed way), or to the social atmosphere, or to biology, or chemistry. But I want to hear what everyone else thinks -- what's your take? If we can accept, for the purposes of discussion, that this survey reveals a fact, what conclusions can we draw, and what implications does it have?

[Laura]

Great point Jen. While it is interesting to wonder who we are attracted to and why, I think that in discussion of this article, there are other issues at work (although it certainly may be discussed at length elsewhere).

I'm wondering how much you think children play into this. After all, for many people, marriage is not just about finding a commited relationship-- it's also about having kids. Do you think that in general, high-IQ women are less into having kids? Is this really pertinent to this question (after all, you can get married without having kids, and vice versa)?

This post has been edited by Laura: 13 January 2005 - 04:09 PM

[Chyld]

(Warning: This post is made slightly drunk. The views expressed may not be attributable to those of regular, sober Chyld. Thank you.)

I think this has less to do with the intelligence of the women in and of itself and more to do with your personal values of attributes of romantic partners. I get the impression you tend to like smart girls. So basically I feel like you're saying "If you date people you don't like that much, you'll only have smooth breakups." Well, yeah.

I mean, if you break up with someone the moment you have a problem, then yes, you had a problem free relationship. If, on the other hand, you value the relationship enough to make it through the rocky times, then you'll have had a relationship with problems. So does that mean you should only date people with whom you won't care to do the difficult patching-up?

Yeah, it seems you're right, but the importent thing is that a.) I've never broken up a relationship ever b.) I've never percieved a problem in any relationship I've been in bar my most recent one - but that contained so many external factors, hindsight shows that it was relativly impossible to maintain it. We started it on a cramped barge in front of our entire social circle, her ex was still raw and hurting over it, another guy on said barge loved her too, but he'd just pulled my prom date days before... OK, I think you've made a point here, but I'm not sure what...

I think that statement brings up a larger, more interesting issue that we haven't really addressed in depth -- Why? Is it because women with higher IQs are less attracted to getting married? Is it because they have a harder time finding men who they want to marry, who also want to marry them? If the first is true, why would smarter women not want to get married? And if the second is true, why do smarter women have a harder time finding a mate? That's what I find fascinating.

Its true, that is the issue at heart here, I jsut corrupted this thread with my penis and his isolation. I put this aforementioned question to the 30+ ladies of this forum, but the only one I can think of that fits this description is electricprune...