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Shows that were killed by running too long

#16 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 07:19 AM

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I have to disagree with you on some things there, JYAMG. As far as Angel goes...yes seasons three and four were rather hard to watch (there were a few good episodes, though, and we got to have more Darla and the Wesley/Fred/Gunn triangle, after all. Joss just can't let his characters be happy, can he?), but I thought season five was brilliant...


Oh, I don't think we're in disagreement, Jane. I never said anything about Season Five and I can't, as I haven't seen it.

The problem with Season Five is that it was preceeded by Season Three and Four, which were bad enough to drive me away ~ and I consider myself a VERY loyal fan. I even bought the videos for the first two seasons.

As for Season Seven Buffy, I'm in 100% disagreement with anyone who liked that.

Where do you guys stand on my arguments with Lord Aquaman on M*A*S*H?
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#17 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:03 AM

Never watched M*A*S*H. I remember they played reruns of it years ago, but I was too young to appreciate it, and just thought it was a boring interuption to cartoons. Funny, I thought the same thing about the gulf war.
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#18 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:49 AM

Sime, you poor man. You have no idea what you've missed out on.

Next time the re-runs come around, watch them. M*A*S*H is the greatest television series of all time. It's true.
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#19 User is offline   Heccubus Icon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 02:35 PM

I think Buffy and Angel would've been fine if they'd just never existed. The original movie was plenty good for me.
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#20 User is offline   Laura Icon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 03:11 PM

I say this as a diehard Buffy fan, who loved seasons 1-4 dearly (and I liked season 5 pretty well but thought it was a little too harrowing). Seasons 6 and 7 were AWFUL. Six was just too dark, too grim, with little comedy, and the Dark Willow arc was kind of stupid, and they should have kept Tara around.

Season 7 was even worse. They lost the balance between the story arc and individual episode plots. Almost no individual episodes had their own plots, and the season arc was gruellingly drawn out. The "first evil" was lame and stupid. And there was FAR too many characters, with little to no development per character. The final season should have been about the core four-- Buffy, Giles, Willow, and Xander-- but they hardly had anything to do. Dawn had NOTHING to do, so you wonder why they even kept her around. The Potential Slayers were hardly distinguishable, except for the odious Kennedy. The finale was strong, but too little, too late, and nobody's plot got enough air time.

I think Season 4's finale would have been a good one. If you'll recall, in the second to last episode, the four core characters join to form a super fighter, with Buffy's strength, Giles's intellect, Willow's spirit, and Xander's heart. This woul have been fine, since a serieswide theme has been "Buffy is the best slayer because she doesn't fight alone." Granted, the whole "giving all the potential slayers power" is also an excellent end along the same theme, but they could have worked to that ending a lot better.

Okay, sorry. Rant.

I agree about Red Dwarf, too. Seasons 1-6 were fine. 7 and 8 were pretty useless.

And Heccubus, I have to disagree, because I HATED the original Buffy movie.
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#21 User is offline   Jane Sherwood Icon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Jan 9 2005, 07:19 AM)
Oh, I don't think we're in disagreement, Jane.  I never said anything about Season Five and I can't, as I haven't seen it.


...Oh yeah, I guess I missed that bit...
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#22 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 09:34 AM

On Saturday Night Live...

I think that show just goes in waves. A decade ago it was pretty awful. 15 years ago, it was much better. 20 years ago, pretty awful. 25 years ago, pretty good. The main problem with the show is that it's TOO DAMN LONG! An hour and a half is just completely unnecessary. The whole things should be crammed into one hour with, at most, only one musical performance. However, I'd be happier with no musical performance at all.

On Red Dwarf...
Seasons 7 & 8 weren't superb. I enjoyed them, but the last great season was probably 5 or 6. 3 or 4, arguably, being the best seasons. Just having started watching the DVDs, season one is great, but I think it's only part way through the second season that the show really hits its stride.

There were too many problems leading up to Season 7 for it to be as good as the previous six seasons. Firstly, is Craig Charles's rape trial which stalled the show's production for nearly four years. This is why Season 6 aired in 1993 and Season 7 didn't come around until 1997 when Craig Charles was finally cleared of charges. Also, during that time Doug Naylor and Rob Grant split up, leaving Doug Naylor on his own to produce/write Red Dwarf.

How could the show possibly survive that? Considering, the 7th and 8th seasons are watchable, just not as classic and great as seasons 1-6.
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#23 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 09:56 AM

Don't worry, I realise what I'm missing with M*A*S*H. Just waiting for it to come back.

And as for the Buffy movie, I have to say I was dissapointed. I saw it after watching about half of the first season, and was incredibly dissapointed.
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Posted 10 January 2005 - 10:04 AM

I agree about Red Dwarf. The last two sasons weren't terrible, but they weren't up to the standard of the earlier ones. I get the feeling that the BBC realises this as well, so there probably won't be any further episodes.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

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Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

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#25 User is offline   Laura Icon

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jan 10 2005, 09:34 AM)
The whole things should be crammed into one hour with, at most, only one musical performance.  However, I'd be happier with no musical performance at all.


So true. And there need to be more, but shorter sketches. Almost every sketch goes on about three times as long as it should. Very few kinds of schtick get funnier after you get the point; and they don't often enough make any effort to take it to the next level, instead choosing to just rehash the one lame joke over and over. I have a theory that the reason the fake commercials (do they even still make these?) are so often funnier than the whole rest of the show is that they have to fit in about a 30 second time frame, whereas the other sketches take up several minutes.

I know it can be hard to think of a lot of different ideas for one show, but if they were shorter, they could feel free to be more experimental and they wouldn't have to worry if a few of them were god awful. Now, you get plenty of god awful sketches, but you just have to turn off the TV because they're so LONG.

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jan 10 2005, 09:34 AM)
On Red Dwarf...
How could the show possibly survive that?  Considering, the 7th and 8th seasons are watchable, just not as classic and great as seasons 1-6.


I didn't know the behind the scenes stuff. Seven and eight aren't HORRIBLE, but I'd just as soon not watch. Well, I actually like the new Kochanski-- it's just the stuff after they get the crew back that's hard to watch.

This post has been edited by Laura: 10 January 2005 - 10:32 AM

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#26 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 12:26 PM

Very true about the SNL commercials. I understand they have to fill up the time, but why go through that trouble? Why not just shorten the show?

Also, I really liked the new Kochanski in Red Dwarf. I thought she did a great job and was a great addition to the cast, she just came in a little too late.
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Posted 11 January 2005 - 10:09 AM

Personally I hated Kochanski. She tried to "improove" the crew by turning them into boring people, and complaining all the time.
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Posted 12 January 2005 - 07:44 AM

Kochanski was a bad idea from the start (or at least the new 'glamour' Kochanski). I know that things went a bit to hell after series 6; Craig Charles served time, Chris Barrie had an appauling sitcom career, the writers fell out, etc. But none of tht excuses the mess they made of the series. Classic BBC failed 'dumbing down' to make it more popular with the masses.
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#29 User is offline   Jane Sherwood Icon

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 09:11 AM

I can't really speak much on Red Dwarf. Despite how much I've looked into it, obsessed over it, and developed one of my character fixations on Arnold Rimmer, I'm still a newbie to the series and still have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to critiquing it. Then there's the fact that I have an "appreciate what you've got" attitude toward all of my fandoms. I'll take whatever I can get at the time, and even when I come back later and am able to properly determine the actual quality of something, I'll try to focus all of my attention on the good aspects of it and force anything I didn't like about it to the back of my mind. I suppose thatís how I can sometimes thoroughly enjoy things that most people hate.

Although, I have to admit...I'm not particularly looking forward to watching series eight...
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#30 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE (SimeSublime @ Jan 11 2005, 10:09 AM)
Personally I hated Kochanski.  She tried to "improove" the crew by turning them into boring people, and complaining all the time.


A valid point. Part of what made the show great to begin with was the extreme directions that Cat, Lister, Rimmer and Kryten's personalities pointed to. Kochanski was like a real person with a big heart and while she'd be the best person to become friends with and hang out with in real life, it made for rather vanilla episodes of the show.

I'll rush to get Seasons 3, 4, 5 & 6 on DVD, but I can wait for 7 & 8. I'll get them, don't get me wrong, but only to fill out the collection.
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