[J m HofMarN]

There was some recent discussion by some very silly people about how all terrorism was comitted by Muslims. The selective memory of these people is rather disturbing so I thought I'd point out that not only have their been home grown American "Terrorist" groups, but that I agree completely with most of them. Hmmm yeah you know I'm blacklisted now.

The Young Lords Party

These Chicanos were pretty cool. They started as a college student movement and then went back to the barrios and started listening to what people wanted. The powers that be had been refusing to run trash pickup for citizens of the Puerto Rican section of New York and so these guys helped the community clean up and then dragged the trash into barracades on a major thoroughfare and lit it ablaze. When the pigs came to crash the party the Young Lords fought back valiantly with rocks and bricks and bottles. They also took over a hospital once to protest abhorrent conditions and were joined by the majority of the hospital's staff. They were also great community aides, organizing tuberculosis checkups and other services. When members of the group noticed that the city's mobile tuberculosis lab never seemed to make it into the ghetto they hijacked it and drove it around unhindered, helping hundreds of poor Latinos to get adequate medical care. They later took on a rather wooden communist stance and forgot their community roots and were destroyed.

The Weather Underground

Fight on brothers and sisters!!! Possibly my favorite liberation group. The WU never killed anyone but they did make a hell of a scary impression. They were a spin off of Students For a Democratic Society and they took their name "The Weathermen" from a Bob Dylan song quoted in the SDS newsletter.They started out in Chicago where they initiated riots that crippled the city and then blew up a statue devoted to pig victims of the Haymarket riot (there is still no statue devoted to the anarchists and communists murdered in teh fighting) They hit the big time after the pigs and the FBI murdered BPP spokesman Fred Hampton and Mark Clark. This so enraged the Weathermen that all of their national chapters issued a declaration of war against the US government.

After this they considered using violence against other humans to further their cause and planned to blow up a meeting of military officials but three brothers were martyred when the bomb they were making went off prematurely and, taking this as an omen, the weathermen swore off attacks on people and only attacked buildings, including the US congress and the rebuilt statue to the police who initiated the Haymarket riot. They also liberated LSD guru Timothy Leary from prison and helped him to escape to a BPPSD hideout in Algeria. True American heroes.

The Black Panther Party for Self Defense

These guys actually got their name from a voting drive started in the south. Parties had to have mascots and a Black Panther was decided on. Various groups around the nation took to this symbol but among them was the famous one led by Huey P Newton and Bobby Seale. This eventually grew to a very large national movement. Newton didn't believe in people like Malcolm X and Stokely Carmichael, who's exclusion of other races he called "Black racism" however he disagreed with Martin Luther King as well and believed that self defense was a necessary doctrine for black lib.

The panthers provided hot breakfasts to inner city children of all races and religions who would have otherwise gone hungry. They also provided free medical care. They were a very strong force against drugs in their communities and often did more to stop drug use than the police, who Panthers often followed around, patroling patrols in black neigborhoods. They worked in close coersion with the Young Lords and various Indian and Womens Lib groups. Their broad appeal made them a target for vicious and cowardly government reprisals. Hundreds were murdered, including Fred Hampton while he lay in bed asleep, drugged by a pig nark. Thousands more still languish in government prisons including Mumia Abu Jamal who is on death row for allegedly shooting a pig who was beating his brother.

So there you have it, that's just a handfull of the home grown American "Terrorist" groups that have existed here. Lamentably, we may never see the like of these brave men again...

[Jesus Christ]

I SCARE EASY. I WANT CATS. COMFORT IN SMALL THINGS. SMALL FURRY THINGS.

[Slade]

Interesting, JM, but I don't see the martyrdom in fucking up when you make a bomb and having it go off in your face. I guess technically they died for their cause and all, but they didn't really further it through their deaths.

And its nice how you summed up the end of the Young Lords. Reminds me of me. "And then they all died." Although I doubt you were looking for humor there...

And Jesus Christ, will you be my Saviour? Please?

[not this crude matter]

Ahhh, the Black Panther party. They were the group like the group that hated white people right? And could you stop refering to police officers as pigs. My Uncle is a retired state trooper who served for 30 years. I think its just pretty disrespectful to call them that since they put their lifes on the lines everyday to uphold the safty of this nation. Sure there are a few bad apples, they are everywhere you go but that doesnt mean the whole organization is corrupt. That would be like me saying all muslims are terroist bastards that murder people out of pure savage instinct.

[J m HofMarN]

Ummm yes, yes they are the group that hates white people...

I have a button from this group, because I too hate white people. Damn my milky skin!

Do you even read posts before replying???

And as for your problem with my use of the term pigs, that term was coined by Eldridge cleaver of "the group like the group that hated white people" and so I used their own terminology. I personally find it rather odd that you'd want me to use a term for the cowardly men who attacked Mumia, Fred Hampton and the Young Lords that would put them on a footing with your uncle. I'm sure your uncle was a fine police officer, but the men who shot Fred Hampton and Mark Clark while they slept were pigs.

As for your comment about "terroist bastards" I forwarded your words to Miss Cleo and she quickly yelled "Death to America!" and ran to hide in a cave somewhere in the middle east.

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 05 January 2005 - 10:01 PM

[Jordan]

Who labelled them terrorists? They're more like pro active hippies.

When my communist pal, Chris, was young, he subscribed to the whole Free Mumia, Che Geuvera, fight the evil white man (he's Half Iraqi) package. My closest Friend and I once went to his Socialist meeting at Harbour Centre in Down Town. They had 4 large flat tables, covered with every piece of extreme left/liberal/socialist literature under the sun. Chris kept shoving the books in our faces, telling us how great they were, he was so excited and giddy. He ran through about 10 books giving us a brief synopsis of each, hoping we might buy one, we didn't.

As we passed the tables Chris walked up to one of his comrades and he began talking to him. He then introduced My pal and I to the his friend. He said "these are my friends from West Vancouver High". The guy responded with "ah, the bougousie birthing ground". These people are so fucking smug. They think they're hip because they're oh so rebellious.

The whole meeting was about their strategy for protesting against some stupid bullshit. The other half was pictures of their part in the successful WTO protest that took place in Seattle. Chris actually organized 400 people from all over the West Coast of Canada to bus down to stop the WTO Meetings from happening. It was about the only thing he did when he was young, the rest of time he spend bitching about how the USA is run by evil men.

This was all in the past. He now never talks about that stupid Mumia shit or goes on about how great the 60's were because black people formed some group and blah balh. Instead he actually makes a difference. He rallies protests, has formed a workers union for drug store employees in Montreal, attends Concordia for economics, and basically fights for Canadian peoples rights.

JM, you remind my friend from back in the day. You have a Che poster in your room, you do right?

This post has been edited by Jordan: 05 January 2005 - 10:40 PM

[not this crude matter]

Ummm yes, yes they are the group that hates white people...

I have a button from this group, because I too hate white people. Damn my milky skin!

Do you even read posts before replying???

And as for your problem with my use of the term pigs, that term was coined by Eldridge cleaver of "the group like the group that hated white people" and so I used their own terminology. I personally find it rather odd that you'd want me to use a term for the cowardly men who attacked Mumia, Fred Hampton and the Young Lords that would put them on a footing with your uncle. I'm sure your uncle was a fine police officer, but the men who shot Fred Hampton and Mark Clark while they slept were pigs.

As for your comment about "terroist bastards" I forwarded your words to Miss Cleo and she quickly yelled "Death to America!" and ran to hide in a cave somewhere in the middle east.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, i read posts before replying. I guess we will both have our little own "terms" then. Yes those cops as you describe them are pigs as you would say. Just like the cowards or terroist bastards that hijacked an airliner of civilians and crashed them into a building.Are we all on agreement here now?

[J m HofMarN]

Jordan- First of all I'd really appreciate it if you wouldnt pass off a cause to save a man from lethal injection as "shit" simply because you obviously never bothered learning from what your friend said. Moreover if I were that friends and noticed that you were too dense to absorb a word I said I'd have likely stopped discussing things with you as well by now. How can you just discount the BPP and the entire history of the American left as meaningless? It's damned important to know the history of our struggle and the ideology behind it. A lot of people think that when you join a revolutionary group the first thing you get is a gun and a beret. In fact the first thing anybody who itnends to foster change will do is pick up a couple of books.

Not this crude matter- Let me rephrase that. Do you listen to posts before replying to them? I stated pretty clearly in my summary of the BPP that they were very far from being a racist organization and anyone who had read it would know that. I also posted in another thread a kind request that you cease quoting entire posts.

[Jordan]

So you don't have a poster in your room?

I look at Cuba, I look at Russia, I look at China. I would never want to live in any of those countires EVER. They all had violent revolutions by people you admire.

My friend went to Cuba once. He brought back a very nice girl with him. She came to Canada for one final vacation before she recieves her Degree in Medicine, because once she gets it, she'll never be allowed to leave the country. In Russia, cops run around with AK47's, much like the ones you don't like in US airports, on a daily basis. My best friend had one pulled on him because he accidentally set off an alarm in his stepfathers apartment. My history teacher back in 1993 had a gun shoved in his face for laughing at Lenin's Pajamas, which are stored in a glass dome by the house he layed low in to escape the Whites. My Chinese pals, the ones that actually immagrated to Canada, tell me horror stories of all the anti-west propaganda they spit at them in school, and how they were in danger of being kicked out of universtiy because they were having sex with their girlfriends in their dorm rooms.

The list goes on. Bloody revolutions started by all these great freedom fighters give birth to shit whole societies. In all the West's evil, it's still 100 times better.

Sure we have our bad apples, Mean cops, corrupt politicians, but at least I can have sex on campus, leave the country on vaction, and speak out against my country when I think it's doing bad things.

I'm not sure how people, like you and my pal Chris, can actually say that these revolutions improved anybodies life.

I think the ideals you stand for sound pretty, but they've never held water in the past. You have freedom fighters, who murder and kill (like bush, for a good cause nodoubt) and then when they win, they lock down with an Iron fist. Extreme leftists, like your heros, are murders and bastards not unlike extreme rightists.

(The whole Free Mumia story just got boring after I heard it 25 hundred times.)

[SimeSublime]

I've been thinking about one of the earlier points, and no matter how much you differentiate between police and pigs, I still find the term offensive to police as a whole. I can understand your reasons for it, but I've seen enough dickheads who call the police pigs for arresting them when they stole somebody's VCR or somesuch.

[Dr Lecter]

you have to admit it was nice of the muslim clerks to remove the words "death to america" from the daily chant on the day of 9/11

[Jordan]

Police- Low paying, Low respect Job.

Being a jerk is inherent to the nature of policing. I've had speeding tickets, drunk in public tickets, etc...

But in the end I don't think they're all pigs'. I do however lose my temper occassionally and refer to individual cops as pigs. The guys who cracked down on Mumia probably were jerks. So are the cops who escort drug addicts to Stanley Park (here in Vancouver) and them shit kick them- they too are also bastards.

After my nervous break down in 2nd term of first year, I pondered dropping out of school and becoming a cop. I did some research.

Starting pay is $35 grand (canadian) a year, roughly.
You work 4 days on and then get 4 days off.

It sounds ok, but then I read further

You need to deal with assholes on a regular basis.
You may have to deal with an AIDS infested drug addict whose causing a ruckus on the street.
You may have to hurt people and or kill them.
You work long shifts waiting for situations to go wrong.

After working 4 years as a Patrol Officer, you have the option of moving up, depending on your past experience and some times education, you are able to take many different routes.

Undercover, Vice, Homicide, Coast Gaurd, Bike Cop, Highway Patrol...

My plan was to go into Vice or Homicide. You can pack heat underneath civillian clothing! I pictured my self in a nice suit with a short prim hair style, packing a berreta in a hoslter by my abdominal.

But in the end I recovered from my slump and realized the Job is not for me. Not to mention, according to statistics, the odds of me getting accepted at my age for the time was very very low. Most cops who qualify are in their late 20's.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 06 January 2005 - 01:13 PM

[civilian_number_two]

Ultimately, it's an ok job if you don't live in a police state (or if you do and you have no conscience). You don't really deal with too many bozos on a daily basis. The worst thing really for a cop is having to man the line at some protest or other. No matter what the cause, and no matter that the point of the cops being there is to make sure that yahoos don't start throwing rocks, some jackass always things he's Abbie Hoffman and starts yelling slurs straight out of Fritz the Cat.

I think you can do better by staying in school.

By the way, J: you've been talking lately about "getting married before 35" and now about how cops make it before their late twenties. how the hell old are you? Becasue I had thought you were like 24.

[Jordan]

I'm 23. I don't want to get married for a long time. I was joking about the prior to 35 bit. It is in the back of my head since I've been hearing it for 23 years. But I don't really care. Marriage is way out of my sight.

Cops on average don't make it in their early 20's.

Most members of the VPD are accepted in their late 20's early 30's.

http://www.city.vanc...g/standards.htm


ps- sorry about knocking you off the number one spot on the house building game.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 06 January 2005 - 05:08 PM

[Slade]

HEY JORDAN, KEEP THE SCORE SHIT IN THE GAME FORUMS OR I'LL BEAT YOU DOWN! THIS IS A DEBATE FORUM, NOT A PLACE FOR YOU TO GLOAT.

Nah, I'm kidding. I just needed a good yell for an absurd reason. If that didn't make you laugh, just ignore it, guys/gals. I don't care if you stick tidbits of the arcade in here at times.

Seriously for a moment: In regard to your mention of "communist" and former communist states, Jordan, the revolutions in at least China and Russia started out fine. But there seems to be a pairing between the angry, bright-eyed revolutionist who really wants to change things and the power hungry partner that ends up killing the revolutionist and eradicating communism in favor of a dictatorship while proclaiming that it's actually more communist. The reason the revolutions failed was because they were very quickly taken over by another group that was exactly like the group that was deposed.