American "Terrorists" - Chefelf.com Night Life

JM: Ghandi was a politician, MLK's marches are the very ones I used as an example of protests that were undermined by violent moles, and let's face it MLK did more by being assassinated than he did by marching. The Anti-Vietnam war movement was bad for the soldiers who came home to be spat on by hippies, to the hippies who gave up their lives, their minds, and their countries out of fear of the draft, and to ... well, nobody else. It was fucking great for the film industry, let's face it, and of course the way that war was ultimately perceived actually did more to SUPPORT the Iraq invasion than anything else. Knowing how fucked up those soldiers were on return (thanks, hippies!), Johnny Public doesn't want to be unpatriotic. So what's he say "I support the troops!" which of course doesn't mean anything, and absolves him of any actual political stance.

The Vietnam war ended when its strongest proponents started to consider it unwinnable. Protest had no effect. Meanwhile I live in Vancouver, the hippie Mecca, and I see the burnouts on a semi-weekly basis. These poor souls are so lost they call busdrivers pigs and spit in the direction of students who wander too close to "their" beach won't give them spare change. Woo hoo.

I agree however that the IRA and the PLO effected change in their countries. And guess how? Nail Bombs, baby. Shooting children.

I don't consider it all pessimistic to say that an acceptable way to change a system is to become a part of it, ie get elected. It beats the alternatives above (be violent, be ignored). Of course, you could go to law school instead, or become a businessman and develop a better business model than import from the poor and sell using minimum-wage staff. There are things you can do without buying a tent and coming up with new rhymes for "Hey hey." Anyway, saying you can change the system from within implies a belief the system works. You might want to start a debate on the meaning of "pessimism."

And yeah, the rape analogy: over the top, but do you think members of the IRA did not shoot cops? Or civilians who answered the cops' questions? And then the cops shot civilians ... yes yes, and all but nine counties were surrendered from England. Violent means achieved the results, just like it did for the PLO and like it continues to do for the US Army. And I guarantee you there's some raping going on. Christ, there were rapes at Woodstock.

Do you think protesters are never violent? If so, then you have been to sit-ins, and yes, I never heard of you or your cause, and isn't it nice that you and your friends took the time to educate yourselves about the issues, whatever they are.

And yeah I have been to protests. I don't fit in in that environment. I like to talk where I think my voice might be heard, or I keep my mouth shut. This yelling in unison carrying around slogans just seems like something other people should be doing. Also I tend ot want t leave when the crowd starts swarming toward the police, and all the tough guys start to show how macho they are. It's boring, and yes, it goes on. The only peaceful protest I ever went to was the pro-hemp rally outside the old City Hall in Vancouver. Three guesses why it was peaceful.

I guess we're divided on "freedom of assembly." I want that freedom, and feel my freedom is achieved by establishing limits on the yahoos. I don't think freedom of assembly should imply I'm not allowed to walk my dog in the park because the bra burners have been there all week. I am certain that all protests lose their effectiveness and just become nuisances eventually. I personally figure that mark is about four hours, but we can play with the numbers. It's certainly not as long as a Grateful Dead Tour. If your goal is to become a nuisance, well, sure. I say turn in the direction of the skid and make some real nuisance. Buy a rifle at Wal Mart and start shooting people. or become that crusading attorney that never shuts up about the ppoverty line.

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Anyway, I know I'm way past being a pain in the ass here, so I'll get on your side for a bit, since we all know I agree with the politics of protest if not with the mindset of any protester I have ever met. I have an idea for a "theme" rally. Get a bunch of guys together, put on some Nazi uniforms, and rally in SUPPORT of the war. Talk about How the US needs to establish a base in the Middle East so it can work toward the supremacy of the White race. I know, it's politiclly impossible to take that argument all the way, but I hear people talking about how if Bush didn't order the invasion of Iraq we'd all be seaking Farsi now. Only when they say it, it's "Iraqi," which makes them sound much smarter. So the level of debate isn't very high anyway. Why not have fun with it? Argue in DEFENCE of a reduction of civil liberties! Against gun control! Support random search and seizure, centralized government, traditional families and racial profiling!

Set this up, send me pictures, and I'll send $100 to your Paypal account.

Hehe. I likes. But the real question is, what do you say about the economy? Just "I'm going to cut taxes to everybody and increase spending in defense!"?

I've always thought Farsi sounded cooler than "Iraqi"...

Edit: Actually, the official language in Iraq is Arabic. Persian (Farsi) is spoken there though. Different roots.

And the problem with violent protests is that it makes the protestors look bad, and there's no point in protesting if you come out looking worse than you went in...

Hence, I don't protest. I might just so I could say I'm doing something, however insignifigant...

I don't know if I could hide enough of my bitter, jaded, cyinical viewpoint of politics in general in order to get elected. And I'd have to lie the entire time, something I would be incapable of. And I'm not at a point where I'd want to give up my scruples to get to the top of the ladder to change things.

So I sit on my ass and wait.

This post has been edited by Slade: 09 January 2005 - 04:39 AM