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Two Nicks' Opinions "down on light-saber standoffs"

#1 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 09:40 PM

Nick Powell (choreographer of The Last Samurai) and I are apparently of the same opinion:

QUOTE
Powell and Jamilla were underwhelmed by the swordplay in Kill Bill, and are particularly down on the light-saber standoffs in the recent Star Wars movies. "It's like the recent Matrix movies," Jamilla says. "The fights are just there to impress everybody rather than be part of the story."


Full article at: Hollywood's new epics are living (well) by the sword
Author: Sword Fighting in the Star Wars Universe.
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#2 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 09:50 PM

Wow, that's a pretty great article.

You are a legitimate author and such, njamilla. What are you doing here? wink.gif
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#3 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 28 December 2003 - 11:38 AM

I basically agree with him about the SW prequels, but in Kill Bill, that was the point, and I thought was done incredibly well in one of the best movies I've seen, well, ever. Of course, Last Samurai is also a fabulous movie, and I see what he is saying about the swordfights, saying they should be secondary to the emotion involved in them. Both prequel swordfights have seemed more like choreographed ballet than real swordfights, while the OT swordfights (even Obi-Wan-Vader) really had heart and grit to them. We can only hope that the Anakin-Obi-Wan duel will go for more emotion and less flashiness and be more like the ESB and ROTJ duels.
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#4 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 28 December 2003 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Dec 28 2003, 11:38 AM)
We can only hope that the Anakin-Obi-Wan duel will go for more emotion and less flashiness and be more like the ESB and ROTJ duels.

It won't be. Save yourself (Don't see it).
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#5 User is offline   Heccubus Icon

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Posted 28 December 2003 - 08:32 PM

I agree with civilian.
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#6 User is offline   A Mighty Pirate Icon

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Posted 29 December 2003 - 04:22 AM

Kill bill was Cinema Ejaculate.

The fucker Tarentino couldn't even edit a single minute from his movie.

It was him beating off for three hours.
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#7 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 29 December 2003 - 12:36 PM

Kill Bill is a masterpiece of cinema done by a filmmaker who has proven himself to be one of the more brilliant ones of our time. Period.
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#8 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 29 December 2003 - 10:02 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Dec 29 2003, 12:36 PM)
Kill Bill is a masterpiece of cinema done by a filmmaker who has proven himself to be one of the more brilliant ones of our time. Period.


"Silly rabbit"
"Trix are for kids."

HUHN?

KILL BILL is like someone out there with a lot of talent for pastiche decided to make a high-power Japanese schlock sword film, a revenge-themed bit of anime, a streetfighter blacksploitation flick, and a Tarantino-esque black comedy about assassins, rape and randomly-placed references to pop culture. But for some reason it never feels like the guy making it actually is Tarantino, because the dialogue throughout is utterly inept. No, inane. Well, in-something.

Every scene with action in it is amazing, while all the dialogue is squirm-worthy. It is the exact opposite of Tarantino's genuine masterpiece, PULP FICTION.

So, yes and no to the sentiment of the article. The action is loads of fun, but like they say, it isn't fueled by story, since, frankly, I don't care whether Uma kills the little schoolgirl or "the guy in the Kato mask." They're not characters. The action was much better in PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN, cookie-cutter plot or not. At least everyone had motivation other than "look cool, spill blood."

PS: deciding to tell the story out of chronological order actually calls attention to how dumb the story really is. And there's nothing clever about the device here. I don't think I need to go into why the device was clever in PULP FICTION or even in RESERVOIR DOGS, or why it was overused and unnecesary in JACKIE BROWN. Here, it's just stupid and even points to some mistakes in plotting. Tarantino is sloppy with this one, so I'd hold off on calling KILL BILL V.1 a "masterpiece."
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#9 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 29 December 2003 - 11:31 PM

QUOTE
Kill Bill is a masterpiece of cinema done by a filmmaker who has proven himself to be one of the more brilliant ones of our time. Period.


Other then Pulp Fiction all his movies have been terrible. Dusk till Dawn? puke! Kill Bill I have not seen yet, but if it's just well scored sword fighting then I'm gonna pass.

I ve seen enough special Fx's with no soul to do me a life time. Matrix, SW, and kill bill all have visual entertainment, but it goes no deeper than that.

Marvel came in and totally killed the CG scene. They made hulk, daredevil, and x men ( I liked X2) because they could. They had the cpu technology to make them so they did. Not because these needed to be seen in the movies.

Last Samurai and LOTR share something that is deeper than your run of the mill action films. The battles scences had emotion that you could appreciate.

It's almost as if they are trying to hard to make me go "whoa cool!"
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#10 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 29 December 2003 - 11:40 PM

First of all, he didn't direct From Dusk Till Dawn, he just wrote it, and it was just a little crap project he did because that was the first script he'd ever written (also I still didn't think it was that bad, fucked up, but not that bad). Reservoir Dogs is very good, and considering that this was the first film he'd ever done, is all the more amazing. Pulp Fiction has one of the best scripts of all time, coupled with great directing. I didn't see Jackie Brown, I heard it wasn't too good, but I'll have to see for myself. And Kill Bill was just pure, unadulterated style. It's one of the coolest-looking, most fun films out there. QT is just so in touch with how to make any type of movie he wants. This pays homage to the Japanese movies he loved, but soars miles above them. It is a MOVIE FOR THE SAKE OF BEING A MOVIE, it is for pure entertainment, something many movies have forgotten in order to give us some moral lesson or tear-jerking film festival crap. That's why it's a masterpiece of movie-making, and I don't want to hear another word about it. So, I say again, really meaning it this time... Period.
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#11 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 04:45 AM

KILL BILL is exactly what you say it is, a movie for the sake of being a movie. It is a grand work of costume jewelry, resembling the things of value that have come before it but not actually holding any value of its own. PULP FICTION borrowed form so many sources I could easily name 75, and with work probably hit 150 or more. But PF also has going for it memorable dialogue among its ensemble cast. It is the most rewatchable film Tarantino has made so far. KBV1 has nothing in the way of good dialogue. In fact what it has is embarrassing, so the amazing action has to stand on its own. It is not very well-written, with some plot elements being downright impossible and stupid as a result. And then every now and then, the film asks me to consider a very real and terrible thing, before suddenly asking me to believe it's all in fun. The film only settles down when there's killing to be done, when you don't have to think too much about its crude plotting or cookie-cutter drama and characters. I guarantee that when you own it you will be jumping ahead to the action scenes the second time you watch it.

Tarantino does a good job with the action, seeing as this is his first foray into the genre. I mean, he makes films like a real pro, but the thing is, there are still real pros out there, so all he has to do to get a film like this made is to copy some (Miike Takashi, Kazuo Ikehiro, John Woo, et al) and hire others. The strength of the thing, for Tarantino, wasn't going to be in the look or the style. It was going to be in the writing, and he skimped on that. Period.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#12 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 04:55 AM

I m sure Tarintino did not have much say in the fighting. John Woo or some other director had full control in that department. I think Tarintino just wanted a peice of the "high flying, punch kick, balance on a pin, kill 48 foes at once" scene.

I still have not seen resevoir dogs.

Whats with this "PERIOD" thing. I m just sick of all the CG, kung fu flying movies. I just put my say in.....period
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#13 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Dec 30 2003, 04:55 AM)
Whats with this "PERIOD" thing. I m just sick of all the CG, kung fu flying movies. I just put my say in.....period

I don't know. I suspect it meant that vwing refuses to say any more on the subject, but I won't hold it against him if he changes his mind. I just added one to make a little bit of fun... Period.

Sonny Chiba planned out the fights, so there's that. I'm sure Tarantino called the shots, but his style of direction is to watch movies he likes and make storyboards from them. He even tells his actors and cinematogrpaher what movies he's trying to emulate. He's not secretly cribbing; everyone's in the know. So naturally his pastiche will be competent.

In other news, his next film, possibly titled INGLORIOUS BASTARDS, is about a group of WWII soldiers who have disgraced themselves in various ways and are scheduled to be executed ... until someone comes along with a mission so impossible that if they can pull it off, they'll be granted full pardon for their various crimes.

Do I need to ask for a fucking break?
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#14 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 10:31 PM

My "period" just meant that this is one of those things that I'm deadset on, and if you don't agree then I won't be able to get you to agree and vice versa, so it shouldn't be argued, that's it. You're allowed to express your opinion, I just didn't want to argue about it. And civilian, reserve judgement till it comes out, it sounds like a quirky movie and could be very good.
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#15 User is offline   njamilla Icon

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 12:13 AM

Ahh, but what about the sword fighting?

I'm rather ambivelent to Kill Bill (which, in a way, is worse than hating it). I love watching sword fights, but it wasn't really Japanese sword fighting as much as it was Beijing opera -- the moves, the techniques, the wire work.

Why didn't Tarantino set in Beijing? It was filmed in Beijing. All the guys wore masks because they were Chinese, not Japanese. And what Japanese "swordsmans" that did exist in the movie can be classified as chambara, a degoratory term for the fake, stylistic, samurai sword fighting in the gawd-awful Japanese TV flicks.
Author: Sword Fighting in the Star Wars Universe.
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