[Madam Corvax]

Hi folks,
I am very happy to announce that I got my very own copy ot ROTK EE yesterday 10th December 18.00 Corvax time.

Therefore, as I promised, I am going to tear this film into pieces and bash it mercielessly. I will look at every single scene and find faults with it. You are welcome to parry my arguments with witty repartees.

Again, why I will be doing it - because I think Peter Jackson cheated on us, by giving us the first instalment which is absolutely, ultimately brilliant and could not be made better and then he ruined the standards with TTT and even more with ROTK.

I have only browsed by added and extended scenes so far, and I am going to start serious watching tonight. I will perhaps do it slowly, because I know some of you might not yet have got their own copies, and I want the pleasure of talking about it last longer.

And plase be warned that I am not going to refrain from spoilers.

[Lord Aquaman]

I thought it sucked that he left all of Saruman's scenes on the cutting room floor while bombarding us with Arwen/Liv Tyler footage and a few too many speeches.
I would rather he cut out all of Arwen's footage (or a good portion of it) and left in Saruman. Watching Saruman's last hurrah on a TV pales in comparison to how it would have looked in a movie theater.

"The Two Towers" simply got on my nerves with the obnoxious comic relief of the dwarf and the annoying Gollum.

[Madam Corvax]

LA - thank you for your comments. Yes, the comic relief annoyed me too. You can check my thread on TTT some pages ago, but there is plenty of that in ROTK too.

Ok., here I am –first instalment of reasons why ROKS sucks compared to FORT. After watching some scenes, I almost say that in some places is sucks compared to TTT...

1. The film begins with a recapitulation of what we already know – how Gollum got the ring. I had a feeling that the director prepared this scene especially for Tolkien’s geeks. There are many miore such scenes later on, which do not help the story at all, but are a sheer delight of fans. It is nice to watch, although they really vent over the top with the fish slime. I think the EE slightly impreoved the theatrical version, by adding the scenes where Smeagol is transforming into Gollum – very nice GCI job, but as I say, this bit is completely unnecessary.

2. The Voice of Saruman. We all knew that this scene was unfortunate to be left out of theatrical version, and I was much looking forward to it. It was nicely done by Christopher Lee, however... In the books Saruman stands on a balcony over the entrance to the tower, in the film – at the very top. Have they got an audio system installed there or what? How come thet they can hear each other? Oh, no – wait a minute – magic again? Also, in my review about TTT I complained about people falling from great heights, and I was not disappointed here, either – the swan-dive of Saruman was spectacular, if completely unnecessary, complete with great spikes on something which resembled a torture wheel.

Also, ROTK seems to be inundated with an uncomprehansible dialogue spoken in solemn and ominous voices, as if to compensate for the lack of real emotions. Now, please, can anyone tell me what was Saruman referring to by saying „something festers in the heart of Middle Earth...” The abvious answer is Sauron, but no, beacuse Saruman goes on to say...”The great Eye sees it all”. If anyone can enlighten me in this matetr, I will be grateful.

3. Comic relief. I think PJ again goes astray with his attempts at comic relief. I complained about Gimli belching in TTT, but that was nothing compared to the completely unnecesary „Drinking game” between Legolas and Gimli. Belching rules the screen and at one point Gimli mentiones the rules of game „No regurgitation”. Yuk! And, of course, another singing duet by Merry and Pippin. I’d say it is really boring to hear the same song twice. What did I pay my money for?

Ok., this is just a start... More to follow.

[Just your average movie goer]

What did you pay for money for?

I'm guess you (and soon, me) paid your money to see Saruman one last time, to see the confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch King, to see all those lovely scenes between Faramir and Eowyn that were axed, and to feel as if you were watching the real movie and not just an extended preview with bad editing (ie. the theatrical edition).

[Lord Aquaman]

The only thing that really redeemd TTT to any extend was Bernard Hill as Theoden (at least I liked him as Theoden) and Miranda Otto as Eowyn (even though my British friend Julie says Eowyn should have been better looking and more of an "ice queen").

The theatrical version of ROTK should have left out that scene where Lord Denethor demonstrates his inability to eat without spewing his half-chewed food out over his chin.

I heard a rumor that PJ actually filmed a scene of Eowyn/Miranda Otto undressing and then redressing herself as a Rohan soldier, but at this time it's only a rumor.

You know Daniel Day-Lewis was offered the role of Aragorn/Strider but turned it down? Imagine how different that might have turned out...

A friend of mine once showed me a paper covering for a hardback FOTR and it had Frodo on the front being carried by Aragorn (who looked like the above mentioned Daniel Day-Lewis) while all these creepy hands are grabbing for the ring, and to my astonishment, this decade old picture of Frodo bore an uncanny resemblance to Orlando "Legolas" Bloom.

[Madam Corvax]

Alas, JYAMG, after watching the whole thing yesterday, EE is still not the film I would have liked to see. Much is improved, that’s true, but still the amount of silliness, incomprehensibility, gratuitousness and lack of coherence is shocking.
Also, I decided to give some scenes grades in “Gimlis” for silliness. * marks new scene ** marks extended scene

4. Eowyn’s Dream*. Well, it certainly is a nice scene. Full of emotions. Nice interaction between characters. Nice ice-blue cloak of Eowyn’s. But! It only shows that there is much more chemistry between Aragorn and Eowyn than between Aragorn and Arwen. It shows that Aragorn cares for Eowyn, that she is vulnerable and looks for comfort… And it all comes to nothing in the end. I would like to have more interaction between Eowyn and Faramir, not Aragorn.

5. The scene where Pippin looks into Palantir** scene gets 5 “Gimlis” out of 10. The Palantir looks like it is sticky, and both Pippin and Aragorn look idiotic struggling with it. Moreover, Gandalf asks Pippin: “Minas Tirith! Is that what you saw?” Well, how the heck Pippin is supposed to know that???

6. Theoden’s character is really incomprehensible to me. Is he an “A-grade prick” to quote JAYM, or is he a nice old man? When Gandalf talks to him about war in Gondor, and that he should come to Gondor’s aid, he asks “What do we owe Gondor?”, meaning Gondor never helped them. Well, Gondor didn’t because you never asked, your prick. Curiously enough, later on, when the beacons are lit, he says “And the Rohan will answer” without further ado. And nothing happened in the meantime to change his mind.

Also, I am quite nonplussed with his relationship with his niece. Eowyn seems to love him for no apparent reason and he loves her too, and they stare into each other’s eyes for quite a substantial period of time, in fact, much longer than all the lovers of opposite sex in the film. But maybe it is just my dirty mind.

7. Arwen’s vision. I am really ambiguous towards this scene. Fist of all, why would she change her mind when she saw this child? Is she one of these women who care nothing about their men and only value children? What would she say to Aragorn “Look, I am back because I really want that lovely little boy”. If you guys were Aragorn, which lady would you prefer – the one who wants you so much that is ready to risk her life, or the one who wants you because you will give her a much-craved child?

On the other hand, I am really amazed at the casting department. The appearance of the child is simply stunning, he looks both like Aragorn and Arwen – brilliant job. So, I think it was not necessary to hang the Evenstar on his neck. Evenstar should have been given by Arwen to Frodo, as a token that she yielded her place in the ship from Grey Haven to Frodo and chose a mortal life. That would have been a nice, poignant finish to her story. As such, we are left with visions only.

[Just your average movie goer]

This is just the first reply that came to mind....

THEY EXTENDED THE PIPPIN/PALANTIR SCENE? That scene already dragged on far longer than necessary and it annoyed me that Merry watched Pippin struggling with the palantir for two minutes before he thought "Hm... maybe I should call for help."

And the palantir did look sticky in the theatrical cut and both Aragorn and Pippin looked like fools, struggling with it.

I've only read the books once... but wasn't the palantir incident completely different (and much better) there? I thought it happened at an encampment on the way to Gondor or something. Maybe my memory's not that great.

And ...

"Minas Tirith? Is that what you saw?"
"How the hell should I know? I never even left the Shire until a few months ago."


Re: Theoden. I think they were overcompensating in Return of the King because he was such an A-grade prick in The Two Towers. I hold him responsible for Haldir's death (and all the other elves, I assume) for ordering a premature retreat that distracted him... and he nearly got Aragorn and Gimli killed too when they were fighting the Urak-hai on the causeway of Helms' Deep.

"Gimli! Aragorn! Get out of there!" he shouts at them. He distracts them and then this huge bastard of an Urak-hai grabs them both and then Theoden puts a block of wood over the crack in the door without even worrying about them. It almost looked as though he wanted them to die.


Sorry, enough of The Two Towers. In Return of the King, suddenly he is the nicest guy around. And I must say I love Bernard Hill's eyes. That little twinkle he gets when he gives the command "Muster the Rohirrim." is so classy. And in his death scene, he's amazing again as he barely moves his mouth or any other part of his body, except his eyes. It's great.

I get teary at that part of the movie and I don't mind telling you. I also get teary when Sam tells Frodo about Rosie Cotton and that if he ever was to marry someone, it would have been her.

And of course, I get teary in The Fellowship of the Ring when everyone thinks Gandalf is dead and when Boromir dies.

You know why I get teary? Because in these movies, I can actually care about the characters. I tell you what though, I wouldn't get teary if Anakin from the Star Wars prequels died suddenly. I'd probably chuckle.


Anyway, I'm way off topic at the moment so I better reign myself in.


I'm looking forward to judging this Extended Edition for myself soon, Madam Corvax. I am glad that while it still disappoints you, it is far superior to the theatrical cut.

My biggest questions would be -

1. Did they smooth out the choppy awful editing (that they should NEVER EVER have won an award for)?

and

2. I heard a rumour that they were going to restore the great darkness to the siege of Minas Tirith. One of the things I hated about the theatrical cut is how so damn bright everything is. It was the same in The Two Towers (both editions) as well. We were supposed to be seeing black clouds and instead we've got light grey skies with the sun still shining through. So did they fix this up and put the darkness in or does it still seem so damn bright, it's silly?


* Extra note on the matter of darkness.... in The Fellowship of the Ring, they got it all perfect. What the hell happened afterwards? Did they hire a new lighting company? El' cheapo lighting effects Inc. ?

[Lord Aquaman]

I think they played up Theoden as a prick in "Two Towers" to make him seem all "conflicted" and decided to play up him up as a nice guy in "Return of the King" to serve as contrast to the obnoxious Lord Denethor, who can't seem to eat without spewing his food back out of his mouth (what was Peter Jackson thinking?!).

Believe it or not, Bernard Hill originally tested for the part of Gandalf.

[Madam Corvax]

JYAMG, from what I saw the editing remains as choppy as in the theatrical cut. As to the great darkness – I’ll come back to it in a moment.



8. ** Denethor gives speech about “not giving his throne to the upstart from the North”. And you know what? I really cannot blame him. I wouldn’t, either. Actually, I think it is the weakest part of the plot. How come the Gondor aristocracy accepted some guy who was never before heard of as the King, while the rightful heir – Faramir – still lives? Also, Denethor speaks about “Shadow of Mordor reaching the City”, so the orcs can march more easily. And of course the shadow never reaches the city - at one point during the battle of Pelennor, sun is actually shining, and in Mordor Frodo and Sam even cast shadows!

9. **At one point, when Sam and Frodo and Gollum start of the Winding stairs, from Minas Morgul rises a great rod of light. People from Minas Tirith also can see it. Can anyone, please explain to me what exactly is it? What was the purpose of it?

10.* During the climb on the Winding Stairs Sam threatens Gollum. He did it like a bad policeman in a B-grade cop film. And I really can’t understand why everyone was swooning over Seam Astin’s performance in ROTK. In my opinion it is Elijah Wood who deserves the praise. He did a splendid job, and at least had something to act, not just utter Tolkien-talk like “Long have you haunted me.”

[Just your average movie goer]

Oh, Madam Corvax.... you're a hard woman to please. I got the DVD for myself today (OH SO HAPPY, SO VERY, VERY HAPPY) and while it is a little underwhelming, it's a LOT better than the theatrical cut.

I noticed the great darkness never materialised... although I enjoyed Gandalf talking to Pippin about it.

Re: the flaring of Minas Morgul.... I have NO IDEA why they did this. It just seems pretty stupid to me.

Re: Sam threatening Gollum. I enjoyed that actually... "No more Slinker, no more Stinker." Fun reference to the books there. And I think they should have included that in the theatrical cut because it explains WHY THE HELL Gollum tricked Frodo into getting rid of Sam. Because in the theatrical cut, it just looks like spite, which makes no sense. If Gollum hates Sam, you'd think he'd be happy for him to walk into Shelob's lair as well.

And the Saruman scene..... oh, I lot of great dialogue there.


I really like a lot of the new lines in the Extended Cut (no New Line pun intended).

I loved Merry's short conversation with Eowyn. It was wonderful.

Oh, and Merry on the battlefield... he just kicked ass left, right and centre. Actually he almost enjoyed it a little too much, methinks.


Not all the additions were good (I agree wholeheartedly about the drinking game. I can't imagine why anyone thought that we'd like to see that). And unfortunately many of them were poorly inserted.

The most disappointing one was the confrontation with the witch king... it was just whacked right in there with no build up at all.

It was just "Oh, hello. What are you doing here?"

"I thought the fans wanted to see me. Look my sword is fiery. Ah, the damn Rohirrim is here. Catch ya later, mate."

Eowyn and Faramir's romance got short-changed still. They just get given some more fleeting glances.

It's funny. There's supposedly 50 minutes of new footage there and it still feels rushed.

I'd love to operate on this film, cut out useless stuff and put more of what was needed into the film.

However, I will continue this after I've had a little time for it to all seep in. At the moment, I must continue Starry Nights for the fans. To anyone else who does not know what it is I am referring to, go to the Screening Room and check it out. You do not know what you are missing out on.

[barend]

i don't have time to read this now...

but if you didn't like it... there will be another version for you to check out soon :wink:

also...

when i first heard of the fall onto a spike i was dissapointed... it's such a cliche...
but it was so spectacularly done that they made it look like it had never been done before...

[Madam Corvax]

JYAMG, of course I am a hard woman to please. C’mon be honest yourself, how many scenes in ROTK match the impact and beauty of FOTR? You are right, it all feels rushed. At least it all makes more sense, as you mentioned with Sam and Gollum.

Barend – I can’t wait for the other version to materialise. Somehow I feel I will derive more laughs from it than from the DVD. Hurry, please!

But back to business:

11. Lighting of the beacons. You know, it is curious. Gandalf is a wizard. Saruman, a wizard of more or less equal strength, was able to send a fireball down the Orthanc.

Later on, Gandalf single-handedly disperses a whole flock of Nazgul (a swarm of Nazgul?, a school of Nazgul? A herd of Nazgul? An unkindness of Nazgul? Ok, let’s call it a “scream” of Nazgul). And here in order to light a simple stack of wood he has to send Merry. What sort of wizard is he?

And I watched the beacons light. While the sight was breathtaking and beautiful, I just could not help wondering how do they light these beacons, since some of them seem to be located on summit of mountains the height of K2. Do they keep sentries there?

12 **Muster of Rohan. Correct me if I am wrong. I switched on the English subtitles and here is what it read: Gimli “If I can muster a legion of Dwarves, fully armed and filthy…” Excuse me? Are going to fight the enemy with their bad smell or what? Can you check your own version for this dialogue?

13 **Re-taking of Osgiliath. There is an exchange between Faramir and another guy who says if the orcs come from the North, they’ll have a warning. And then Faramir is mighty surprised when they come from the river. To me, he was a idiot not to think of it.

I once read a fan’s opinion about Eowyn’s and Faramir marriage – she slain the Witch King, and he could not even re-take Osgiliath, so who was going to wear pants in this family? After seeing this extended scene, I tend to agree with this opinion.

[Just your average movie goer]

I once read a fan’s opinion about Eowyn’s and Faramir marriage – she slain the Witch King, and he could not even re-take Osgiliath, so who was going to wear pants in this family? After seeing this extended scene, I tend to agree with this opinion.

I have to respectfully disagree on that one. The Witch King is a throwaway bad guy to me. He's got a cool black cloak and he looks kind of scary but when someone, like Eowyn and Merry for example, calls his bluff, they find that he really doesn't have much up his sleave.

The Witch King never scared me. I only felt afraid for the poor little hobbits in that encounter on Weathertop because for some reason, to make up for the fact that these guys are small and the reach of their arms is also short, they gave the hobbits SHORT BLADES! I mean really! Here's this Nazgul walking towards them, who can stab them, while keeping his body a good two metres out of their reach and they've got this pissy little swords that won't go anywhere near him.

The thousands of orcs that stormed Osgiliath however, was scary. And with only a few men at his side, I think Faramir's situation was probably one of the most grim and hopeless in the whole trilogy. There is only one moment in the movies where a character is in a similarly hopeless situation... when Boromir is surrounded by all those Urak-hai with neither Aragorn, Legolas or Gimli in sight.


Okay, let's address your points now.

11. Lighting of the beacons.

This is a pointless scene, you are right. But I find it really breathtaking none the less. I love the sweeping camera over the mountains and the rousing music. It's a guilty confession of mine.

However, I don't even care whether Gandalf lit them with a fireball or not. They didn't need to be lit. Also, nobody NEEDED to think where Sauron was going to strike.

"Pippin saw in the Palantir a glimpse of the enemy's plan." ??? It's hardly a complicated strategy. Sauron's plan was to send a inconcievably massive army into Middle Earth and kill everybody. And as Minas Tirith was both ( a )the most powerful stronghold of men and ( b ) right outside Mordor, I can't see why anyone would think he'd strike anywhere else.

They should have been mustering the Rohirrim as soon as the had slept Helms Deep off.

12 **Muster of Rohan. Correct me if I am wrong. I switched on the English subtitles and here is what it read: Gimli “If I can muster a legion of Dwarves, fully armed and filthy…” Excuse me? Are going to fight the enemy with their bad smell or what? Can you check your own version for this dialogue?

I didn't mind that. I think, while it was just a joke, it was also Gimli having a dig at the high class of the elves. It's as if to see, well, my people may not be the most attractive race around, but we sure can kick a lot of ass in a fight.

13 **Re-taking of Osgiliath. There is an exchange between Faramir and another guy who says if the orcs come from the North, they’ll have a warning. And then Faramir is mighty surprised when they come from the river. To me, he was a idiot not to think of it

Again, you are absolutely right. And Osgiliath was totally unnecessary anyway... just how the hell did the Gondorians think it would be an effective buffer against ANY attack? It's just a bit of rubble without proper walls. The orcs could go around it as well, if taking it was really too much trouble. But it doesn't matter anyway because as the movie so clearly demonstrated, there's not much a few dozen men can do to stop an army thousands strong marching through.



Just some more comments on the Extended Edition that I forgot to mention before -

1. I LOVE that song which was used for the Houses of Healing.

2. It was so much better seeing Pippin find Merry in the late hours of the night after searching for him for many hours on the darkened battlefield.

3. It was good to see so many more wide shots. The extra shots of all the dead soldiers on the battlefield really made it seem more real than the theatrical cut. The sweeping vistas of Minas Tirith were impressive.

4. I really liked the scene where the trio of heroes come out from the paths of the dead to see the Corsair ships and the burning villages.... well, I did until the King of the Dead rudely interrupted it without warning and destroyed the whole scene.

5. And that extra dialogue in the scuffle between Frodo and Gollum on the slopes of Mt Doom was BEAUTIFUL. Why they left that out of the theatrical cut is beyond me. Gollum's line there is just DELICIOUSLY EVIL.


some BAD

6. Pippin didn't get to kill a troll. In the books, he KILLED A TROLL! This is no small feat and seeing how Merry got to slaughter countless orcs on the battlefield (he was quite the Terminator, wasn't he? Give me an army of Meriadoc Brandybucks any day), I think it is only fair that Pippin got to kill his troll.

7. Gimli's comic relief... is just... unbearable at some points. They've taken quite a likeable character and turned him into this obnoxious dickhead who makes stupid jokes left, right and centre. I nearly lost it when he was trying to blow away the ghosts in the paths of the dead. I wanted to leap onto the screen and hit him in the head. "Dammit Gimli! Stop that!" And in the drinking game, he was just disgusting. He was like some kind of horrible repulsive animal.

Oh, and when he knocks Legolas' aim so he ends up killing the pirate and then do this look of horror, I was shocked... does his annoying comic antics know no boundaries?

8. Gothmog's growls when he's going after Eowyn "Roar! RAAA!!! RAAA!!!" Give me a f#@*ing break! Still, it was rather funny seeing him get the shit hammered out of him by three people. It was a fitting end. Aragorn slicing his arm off. Gimli whacking him through the chest and Aragorn coming back to hit him again just for the hell of it... kind of like "Oh, bugger it, why not? One more!! WHACK!!!"

And of course, Eowyn hit him around the head earlier on as well.

The only thing is I still can't see how he survived the calvary charge. Everyone else there got trampled.


9. Those close up shots of the orcs chanting when the wolf's head was brought in... it was hard to be frightened of these creatures because in that scene they looked like adolescent school boys, with about as much self-confidence.

I don't know what happened to orcs in these movies. In the prologue of The Fellowship of the Ring, the Mordor orcs were downright frightening. The urak-hai at the end of the movie, particularly Lurtz, were terrifying. The threat of the orcs in that movie seemed real.

However, in Return of the King, they looked like a bunch of funny retards and instead of being scared of them, I found myself thinking "Man, it'd be fun to grab a sword and slaughter these things. Look at them! They're so pissweak."

I don't know... maybe that was the reaction Peter Jackson was going for. But somehow, I doubted it.


10. Scenes that looked like they were still in production. When I saw the preview for this Extended Edition, I saw Saruman's fireball and I thought it looked pretty cheesy. I was expecting that it was just an early shot and they were still working on it but lo and behold, it was exactly the same as it was in the film. Also, when I saw the confrontation in the preview between Rangerman, Elfboy, Dwarfdude and the Corsair mercenaries, I thought they were some bad outtakes of the scene that we'd really see. I was SHOCKED to see that they remained in the DVD EXACTLY as I had seen them in the preview and that Peter Jackson really did scream like that in the movie and Gimli did go "OH!" in shock. I honestly thought that was some mucking around behind the scenes. And it really pulled me out of the movie when I saw that. It just didn't seem like what I was watching was real anymore.

[barend]

no more bagging out the wizards!!!

i'm so tired of explaining this to everyone...

1. these are not D&D wizards...

the 5 Istari swore when the came to middle earth not to use their powers flamboyantly to directly aid men...

they were there to keep the races o f middle earth informed...
to inspire them...

in the first age of elves Gandalf (known as Olorin at the time) was nothing more than a voice on the wind that inspired elves to persue great things...

Gandalf knows he is there for a limmited time... and at that time more than any, it is important that he not 'save the day' or men will rely on him, and get squished the next time a bad dude gathers an army...

it's a bit like the whole why does god allow bad things to happen question...

but that's the answer...
gandalf is trying to teach men to fight for themselves...
that's what he swore to do...

and eru bless him, that's what he did.

the wizards of middle earth are representative of wisdom...
and that's what they do and teach...

it would not be wize to zap someones anemies away for 10000 years then out of the blue say, well one of your bigger enemies is dead...
you're on your own... good luck.

[Madam Corvax]

Also, nobody NEEDED to think where Sauron was going to strike.

"Pippin saw in the Palantir a glimpse of the enemy's plan." ???  It's hardly a complicated strategy.  Sauron's plan was to send a inconcievably massive army into Middle Earth and kill everybody.  And as Minas Tirith was both ( a )the most powerful stronghold of men and ( b ) right outside Mordor, I can't see why anyone would think he'd strike anywhere else.

Yes, it was pretty dumb not to conceive that, wasn’t it. Although I have to disagree on the “powerful stronghold” Did you notice when the siege machines approach walls and lower their drawbridges, apparently made of wood, the walls just crumble like cheese… And I am amazed at the apparent lack of any command in Gondorian army. Gandalf tries to command them, but what he does does not make much sense from the military point of view. “Courage is the best defense” I mean, what? This is catchy slogan, but in fact leads to slaughter of fools who believed such stuff.

In books it is all much more believable. For example, next point

14. Women and children. They roam freely the streets of Gondor, and we can see, that they are even present in the FIRST CIRCLE of Gondorian walls. Even if the Civilian’s argument from the TTT thread is valid that women and children are safest in keeps, surely they are not safest in the first circle? How come they didn’t evacuate their people? Did those idiots didn’t know? Of course they knew, but the director thought it would be more “dramatic” if we see women ravaged by orcs

15. Gondorian riders. I was pretty astonished to se Gondorian riders. According to the books, Gonorians kept horses only for envoys and messengers. And for good reason, too. Where would you keep and feed hundreds of horses in a stone city? And, contrary to the books, the city as not surrounded by farmland, it was just a pile of pocks in the middle of quite arid mashes. And it all looked very unconvincing compared to the real location of Edoras.

And back to JYAM comments

6. Pippin didn't get to kill a troll. 

No, and what’s more, the scene where Aragorn charges into the Army of Mordor emerging from the black gate gets 6 Gimlis for silliness from me. After Aragorn charge Merry and Pippin, and they get TRAMPLED by the attacking people who run AFTER them. Watch closely. We were rocking with laughter when we saw it.

7. Gimli's comic relief... is just... unbearable at some points.  They've taken quite a likeable character and turned him into this obnoxious dickhead who makes stupid jokes left, right and centre.  I nearly lost it when he was trying to blow away the ghosts in the paths of the dead.  I wanted to leap onto the screen and hit him in the head.  "Dammit Gimli!  Stop that!"  And in the drinking game, he was just disgusting.  He was like some kind of horrible repulsive animal. 

Oh, and when he knocks Legolas' aim so he ends up killing the pirate and then do this look of horror, I was shocked... does his annoying comic antics know no boundaries?

No, apparently not

10. Scenes that looked like they were still in production. 

I wholeheartedly agree

no more bagging out the wizards!!!

i'm so tired of explaining this to everyone...

1. these are not D&D wizards...

Barend, I am sorry very much, but if what you say it’s true, then why the stunt with frightening Nazgul and the shafts of light? Either you are a “honorary wizard” or you do magic, and not a bit of both when it suits you. That doesn’t simply make sense.

More to follow.

But.. where are the others... Vwing? Civilian?