[Lord Aquaman]

BTW, have a nice Easter holiday. I am going to seem my parents in the country, and they are Internet-free, so I'll be back only on Tuesday for more discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have fun. Will see you when you get back. Maybe JYMAG will pop up while you're gone.

[Despondent]

Brother Boromir has reported in on Barend's LOTR efforts, it was so good to see.

Madam C: Internet-free, you say? how refreshing.

[Madam Corvax]

Despondent, - not really refreshing. In fact, bloody boring, because the weather was awful, so no chance of nice walks in the wood.

I have checked LOTR spoof, hilarious as ever.
AND!
I have posted my photo in Arwen jumper in the Photo Album. Check it out!
Next - midnight blue dress with red sleeves. I think I will finish it approximately in August. I have already bought the yarn.

[Lord Aquaman]

Congrats on the Arwen jumper MC.

I wonder what might have happened with Sean Bean in the Aragorn role...

[Madam Corvax]

It was my opinion from the very beginning that they should have swapped roles. Really, I think Sean Bean is much more handsome and interesting as an actor than Viggo Mortensen. But I suppose Boromir is something an actor can really play, showing his emotional range rahter than just display two facial exp​ressions and look noble.

[Lord Aquaman]

How much of an advantage do you think Gondor had over Rohan, budget wise?

[Madam Corvax]

I'd say it's like six or five to one and shringking rapidly. Honestly, from TOlkien's description, Gondor was in the state of economic, and what is worse, demographic crisis (empty houses in the city, few children etc).

It was an ancient and very rich kingdom and it had technological advantage over Rohan (look at the architecture and armours) but the demographic situation would in three or four generations pretty soon equialise the differences. Rohan had more and better land, and was not so "stuck up" in their own ancient greatness.

[Lord Aquaman]

Rohan seemed to have better soldiers as well, but maybe it's just easier to beat someone down when you have a horse to trample them.

I think I've used up all my best LOTR related material. I'm spent... terribly spent.

[Madam Corvax]

I agree with you that we've mostly exhausted all the bits and pieces here. Maybe you should start a thread like "Random flick" or whatever where we can discuss just about any film that pops into our mind. And then we can just let this thread die quietly.

[Lord Aquaman]

I agree with you that we've mostly exhausted all the bits and pieces here. Maybe you should start a thread like "Random flick" or whatever where we can discuss just about any film that pops into our mind. And then we can just let this thread die quietly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like a great idea, but JYAMG may not like seeing this old thread go.

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah, it's alright. We've still got all our old posts here for old time's sake. On a final thought though, I have to say that despite its drawbacks, I am enamoured with the Extended Edition of Return of the King and the trilogy on the whole.

Sure, some things could have been done a little differently, and yes, a little better but it's still a wonderful treasure for the ages... and I'm sure I'll still be watching these movies again and again well into the future years.

So thank you to everyone involved in bringing these movies to life. They are all wonderful creations.

[Laughlyn]

It was my opinion from the very beginning that they should have swapped roles. Really, I think Sean Bean is much more handsome and interesting as an actor than Viggo Mortensen. But I suppose Boromir is something an actor can really play, showing his emotional range rahter than just display two facial exp​ressions and look noble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

{sigh} Finally got to the end of this thread and it's on it's way out. Oh well, Madam Corvax was right, Sean Bean was perfectly suited to Boromir. He kept the slightly dark rogue edge he's always had an turned it perfectly to the role. If he'd been cast as Aragon we'd have seen a darker hero than expected.

[Casual Fan]

I finally saw the extended edition. I was far away from a movie theater when it came out, and only got around to watching it on DVD now.

The comments in this thread were great. Nearly all of the LOTR commentary on the internet seems to fall into either the "PJ and his movies are awesome! Yippie!" or the "Where is the Scouring of the Shire? Jackson trashed the books!" camps. It was good to finally see some thoughtful analysis. I think these are good, sometimes great, movies on the whole and a formidable challenge. I also think Jackson made some major mistakes, in some cases understandable and in some cases quite obvious. So you can't really do a simplistic, sweeping criticism.

The worst feature of the movies was the editing, and every extended edition contained scenes that on no account should have been left out, in some cases they contained critical information for understanding the plot. And the theatrical editions, especially The Two Towers [TE] all contained quite a bit of filler. But I think the extended edition of The Return of the King both changed and improved on the theatrical edition the most. It really is a different movie. Even the long drawn out ending doesn't seem as bad when viewed in context of the additional material. TTT [EE] is watchable, while TTT [TE] is simply a mess, but I was still so put off by the final third of Jackson's interpretation of TTT that I delayed watching ROTK [EE] for two weeks.

ROTK contains some great scenes, and some really embarassing scenes. However, except for the Legolas-Gimli drinking game, all of the really embarrasing scenes (Frodo sends Sam home, Legolas the the Oliphant, and Frodo awakening being the top three) take place in the theatrical edition. Other than the drinking game, the extra EE scenes are either beautiful or add depth to the plot.

I also want to defend the Gandalf-Witch King confrontation. No one seems to have noticed this, but the great darkness is in ROTK [EE]. The entire siege of Minas Tirith, before the Rohirrim arrive, is shot in darkness, as is obviously Frodo on the winding stair and in Shelob's lair. When Gandalf confronts the Witch King, you see the sun come up during the confrontation, and hear the horn of the Rohirrim. This is my favorite part of the book, and I think Jackson conveys the tone here. Then the rest of the battle of Pelennor is shot in bright sunlight. In the theatrical edition, I missed the great darkness, either Jackson added it in the extended edition, or the theatrical edition was so choppy the effect was lost.

For that reason, I didn't get the sense of Gandalf being defeated during the confrontation. Sure he loses his staff, but the sun comes up! The scene is beautiful, but it accomplishes several things that help the movie. First, it increases what Merry and Eowyn accomplish when they kill Agmar (Jackson, by the way, nearly ruins this scene by cutting away from it. Why?). For the first time we get a sense of his power. Also, it diminishes Gandalf, which has to happen. Gandalf can't be some deus ex machina constantly running around putting out fires. The inhabitants of Middle Earth need to deal with evil on their own. In this case the Witch King is defeated by the Rohirrim, with some help from Eru. After the scene Gandalf's confidence is shaken and he defers to Aragon, which he does in the book. In the book, Tolkein makes the same point when Gandalf tells the hobbits to deal with the problems in the Shire on their own, but without the Scouring (which I completely agree has no place in the movie) that has to be put elsewhere. Also, there is a nice bit with Pippen drawing his sword and moving to confront Agmar, then drawing off.

Not only did I like the confrontation, it should have absolutely been in the theatrical edition. Same with the Houses of Healing, which should have been much longer, and the Mouth of Sauron scene, though I agree about the inappropriateness of Aragon's reaction. I also agree that there were alot of dubious scenes and filler, mainly in TTT but also to some extent in ROTK, that could have been cut to make room for this. The editing of these movies really puzzles me.

I have some thoughts on the LOTR movies in general, though I don't know if I will have time to post them soon. Rather than restart this thread, I was thinking of starting a new LOTR thread. There isn't much in the way of interesting movies coming out now, and people may be interested in talking about a not-quite-recent trilogy that is still pretty interesting.

[Lord Aquaman]

I finally saw the extended edition. I was far away from a movie theater when it came out, and only got around to watching it on DVD now.

The comments in this thread were great. Nearly all of the LOTR commentary on the internet seems to fall into either the "PJ and his movies are awesome! Yippie!" or the "Where is the Scouring of the Shire? Jackson trashed the books!" camps. It was good to finally see some thoughtful analysis. I think these are good, sometimes great, movies on the whole and a formidable challenge. I also think Jackson made some major mistakes, in some cases understandable and in some cases quite obvious. So you can't really do a simplistic, sweeping criticism.

The worst feature of the movies was the editing, and every extended edition contained scenes that on no account should have been left out, in some cases they contained critical information for understanding the plot. And the theatrical editions, especially The Two Towers [TE] all contained quite a bit of filler. But I think the extended edition of The Return of the King both changed and improved on the theatrical edition the most. It really is a different movie. Even the long drawn out ending doesn't seem as bad when viewed in context of the additional material. TTT [EE] is watchable, while TTT [TE] is simply a mess, but I was still so put off by the final third of Jackson's interpretation of TTT that I delayed watching ROTK [EE] for two weeks.

ROTK contains some great scenes, and some really embarassing scenes. However, except for the Legolas-Gimli drinking game, all of the really embarrasing scenes (Frodo sends Sam home, Legolas the the Oliphant, and Frodo awakening being the top three) take place in the theatrical edition. Other than the drinking game, the extra EE scenes are either beautiful or add depth to the plot.

I also want to defend the Gandalf-Witch King confrontation. No one seems to have noticed this, but the great darkness is in ROTK [EE]. The entire siege of Minas Tirith, before the Rohirrim arrive, is shot in darkness, as is obviously Frodo on the winding stair and in Shelob's lair. When Gandalf confronts the Witch King, you see the sun come up during the confrontation, and hear the horn of the Rohirrim. This is my favorite part of the book, and I think Jackson conveys the tone here. Then the rest of the battle of Pelennor is shot in bright sunlight. In the theatrical edition, I missed the great darkness, either Jackson added it in the extended edition, or the theatrical edition was so choppy the effect was lost.

For that reason, I didn't get the sense of Gandalf being defeated during the confrontation. Sure he loses his staff, but the sun comes up! The scene is beautiful, but it accomplishes several things that help the movie. First, it increases what Merry and Eowyn accomplish when they kill Agmar (Jackson, by the way, nearly ruins this scene by cutting away from it. Why?). For the first time we get a sense of his power. Also, it diminishes Gandalf, which has to happen. Gandalf can't be some deus ex machina constantly running around putting out fires. The inhabitants of Middle Earth need to deal with evil on their own. In this case the Witch King is defeated by the Rohirrim, with some help from Eru. After the scene Gandalf's confidence is shaken and he defers to Aragon, which he does in the book. In the book, Tolkein makes the same point when Gandalf tells the hobbits to deal with the problems in the Shire on their own, but without the Scouring (which I completely agree has no place in the movie) that has to be put elsewhere. Also, there is a nice bit with Pippen drawing his sword and moving to confront Agmar, then drawing off.

Not only did I like the confrontation, it should have absolutely been in the theatrical edition. Same with the Houses of Healing, which should have been much longer, and the Mouth of Sauron scene, though I agree about the inappropriateness of Aragon's reaction. I also agree that there were alot of dubious scenes and filler, mainly in TTT but also to some extent in ROTK, that could have been cut to make room for this. The editing of these movies really puzzles me.

I have some thoughts on the LOTR movies in general, though I don't know if I will have time to post them soon. Rather than restart this thread, I was thinking of starting a new LOTR thread. There isn't much in the way of interesting movies coming out now, and people may be interested in talking about a not-quite-recent trilogy that is still pretty interesting.

Wow, I never thought I'd see this thread again! I thought it had long since vanished into the depths of obscurity... and Madam Corvax and JYAMG aren't here to see it's glorious return.

[Dorothy]

Oh, and Happy Lord of the Rings Day!!!



(at least according to the radio)