[Chefelf]

Let me once again bring up the comparison of the Godfather. Like Anakin, Michael Corleone is also turned from a good hearted but naive youngster in that film into a cold blooded monster by film's end. Contributing to that downfall is the Mafia's moral code which he initially wishes to have no part of but then comes to embrace and be corrupted by as he takes over the Family. The Code is not a few mumbo jumbo magic words and pablum catch-phrases that the director throws in. Its a palpable thing whose tenets (the code of silence, family loyalty, respect for authority) are understood and grasped by the audience before the movie is done. We can understand HOW the code corrupts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent point. I would elaborate on it, except it is perfectly put and needs no elaboration.

[Paladin]

Other than being a totally anooying moron, Anakin did something to ME that was far worse than what he did for Star Wars.

Apart from having the worst acting I've ever seen, Anakin reminded me a LOT of various street punks, bullies, and brats that made my life a living hell in school and elsewhere.

I'm not afraid to say it, but I was once a little bit like Anakin. I have some emotional sensitivity problems and I get irrated and angry very quickly, and very often I'd explode in hissy fits and start to shout about what other people did to me, and I worry too much... far too much, generally remember bad events for far too long and still get angry at many things that would make most people laugh.

But there's one pretty darn big difference between me and Anakin. Anakin was a complete jerk and a totally unlikable character, but I've had a lot of friends and many people I've know, all the way from kindergarten till now, think I'm a perfect gentleman and a brilliant student. Another thing is that Anakin's brat-like behavior over non-existant accusations. While I did get angry at my parents and blamed them for a whole lot of my problems, at least I didn't go off and bother other people with my rants, I kept them soley towards my family and I actually had a reason to blame them, and not something utterly stupid like 'he's holding me back' that Anakin raves about.

I gradually got calmer and calmer as I got older, and had more experiance with people. I've had a bad and rough childhood, but at least most of it is a little distant in my mind right now. I've been seeing doctors and taking medication for anger management and other psyhological problems ever since I was 10 years old, and it was only a few months back that it finally started to pay off...

[Just your average movie goer]

Another point is that when most people who have hissy fits, nobody pays money to see them.

[Lord Aquaman]

Anakin has the emotional development of a middle school kid (age range roughly 12-14).

[Mad Rabbit]

The way I see it, Anakin isn't so much arrogant than he is a whiney little creep. I personally would have liked to have seen a really arrogant Anakin because I don't think that the character of Darth Vader should be a redeemable one. I don't understand Lucas's way of thinking, Han Solo can't be a hero if he shoots greedo first, yet we have this Sith Lord who commits untold atrocities but because he had a troubled childhood and throws some wrinkled old wizard down a shaft he's somehow redeemed? Give me a break! I think Xombie said it best...

And let me just add to this by questioning the very premise of a tragic hero. In the OT Vader is the head thug who does the dirty work for the dictator. His role is analogous to Himmler in Nazi Germany or Beria in Stalin's Soviet Union, not to mention countless medal-encrusted fossils in general uniforms standing behind the despotic President For Life dujour in uncounted African and South American countries. Does anyone think Himmler was a good man who took a wrong turn in life?

My way of looking at the PT is that it should not have necessarily been about Anakin's turn to Vader, but really more about Obi-Wan and his failure to see that this pod racing little shit should have never become a jedi in the first place. If there's a tragic hero anywhere in these movies, it's Obi-Wan. You have this good man who because of his arrogance in his younger days somehow is responsible for Anakin's transformation into Vader. (or so we're told in the OT) Has Lucas somehow forgotten this bit of information? It would have been more interesting (for me at least) if Anakin was seen as a loose cannon who had potential but because of his arrogance and lust for power was deemed unsuitable to have his jedi training continued. Obi-Wan thinking he's as good as Yoda... (anyone remember Kenobi saying this in the OT or am I the only one?) takes this brash young hot-head under his wing and tries to curb his emotions. By continuing Anakin's training Obi-Wan unwittingly gives Anakin more power without the mindset to use the force as it was meant. This would be a more beleivable set up for Palpatine to lure this jedi over to the dark side, more so than any love triangle or you killed my puppy scenario I can think of. Sorry I got carried away a little bit...

[Jordan]

I think it's safe to say that we here at CHEFELF.COM have picked apart every aspect of the PT. And the conclusion is -


Everything that could have gone wrong with this movie came to past.

It seems like a ridiculous statement. It seems like an impossible feat for any director/screen writer to do. But here we are.

[Helena]

Anakin has the emotional development of a middle school kid (age range roughly 12-14).

Dropping to about 5 after he kills the Sand People, when he starts raving about how he's going to be the most powerful Jedi ever and stop people from dying.

And before I forget, welcome to the forum Mad Rabbit - many good points there.

[Paladin]

Dropping to about 5 after he kills the Sand People, when he starts raving about how he's going to be the most powerful Jedi ever and stop people from dying.

When I was a kid, I used to say things like that when I had some of my explosive tantrums. But there is a difference between me and Anakin, and I'll list them here.

1: I KNEW that those things I was saying were irrational, but I didn't care because I was so angry. When I calmed down I'd take them back and apologize for it.

2: I didn't do that because I was a spoiled, whiny creep, I did that because I was seriously abused by people around me at school (not only the students, but the teachers and principles, too) and no one came to my help. I was gueniely enraged and had a reason to be that angry, and my tantrums were normally for blowing steam.

3: Unlike Anakin, who was without a doubt the most hateable 'hero' of the silver screen, I had friends, and I was a little boy and my family loved me. My friends loved me, too and the teachers in school (with some exceptions) cared for me and, were friendly to me (and vise versa) and really went out of their way to help me... but sadly, they were powerless to do anything about the people who abused me.

4: Another difference between me and Anakin is that Anakin wasn't like this when he was a kid... during the Phantom Menace, he was a perfect little angel, and later turned into a complete asshole. I, on the other hand, have been a easily irratable and angry person even when I was a small kid. I've been seeing doctors and taking anger management classes and medication ever since I was 10 years old, and I've been steadily improving ever since.

5: I don't bother people I hardly know or uninvolved people with my tantrums and raves... Anakin apparently doesn't care about that at all -- he does it to everyone!

6: When I was 19, I was mostly gone with my anger. Oh sure, I still had it around the edges and whatnot, but it was FAR better than I was a few years earlier. When I was 20, my anger was almost completely gone (with one exception between March-June 2004, but that was hardly anything... and I laugh at it completely). Here I am now, 21 years old, and one of the most coolest headed people my family knows... I've gone a long way since then.

And Mad Rabbit, welcome aboard!

[Mad Rabbit]

Thanks for the welcome Helena and Paladin. Let's see how long it takes for me to wear it out.

You know I was thinking more about this Anakin kid. Why make him all cute and cuddly in the first movie? Why not make him a twisted little bastard who tortures womprats in the basement? Wouldn't it be more intriguing to have a guy who was this total bastard, (insert violin music) who through the love of a fair maiden turned his life around and became this ultimate force of good and then when the fair maiden dies he turns his back on everything he once stood for? There's your romance and tragic hero in a nutshell! Damn following this formula, the PT writes itself halfway! Oh god, I'm getting all misty thinking of the tragedy that could have been...

[Lord Aquaman]

That's two bullseyes for Mad Rabbit. You've brought up two good points I'd have never thought of.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your avatar is of the rabbit guy who appears in Teena Mutant Ninja Turtles, isn't it?

[Mad Rabbit]

Thanks Aquaman

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your avatar is of the rabbit guy who appears in Teena Mutant Ninja Turtles, isn't it?

Well you're not entirely wrong, My avatar is that of the character Usagi Yojimbo, who did indeed appear in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. However I think that was just a crossover of some sort. Unfortuneately the character probably gets more recognition for this than the merits of his own book, which BTW is probably some of the best stuff written for the comics regardless of the fact it has anthropomorphic animals in it.

[Paladin]

Hey! I LIKE anthropomorphic animals! I have fetish for them, so don't give any bad words or else!

[Lord Aquaman]

Thanks Aquaman

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your avatar is of the rabbit guy who appears in Teena Mutant Ninja Turtles, isn't it?

Well you're not entirely wrong, My avatar is that of the character Usagi Yojimbo, who did indeed appear in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. However I think that was just a crossover of some sort. Unfortuneately the character probably gets more recognition for this than the merits of his own book, which BTW is probably some of the best stuff written for the comics regardless of the fact it has anthropomorphic animals in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you think Usagi Yojimbo should get his own film or animated series?

[The Other]

For me the question isn't why did Anakin have to be arrogant? The question is what reason did he have to be arrogant? Because I personally expected him to be arrogant in the second movie. I pictured him as being a lot like Kyp Durron from the EU he is the best Jedi of the lot and he knows it. So when Obi-wan starts to train him he learns a lot of things very quickly. However instead of moving up through the ranks Obi-wan 'holds him back' because he doesn’t believe Anakin is ready yet. So he gets all "Why can't I go through the trials? You know I'm better than any of those guys. You know I think you're holding me back because you just don't want to admit that I'm better than you." This granted still holds the over all feel of whiny teenager, but at least there is some foundation for it.

Yet in the movie I didn't get the feeling Anakin was a powerful Jedi at all. He almost lets Padme be killed because he felt like having an argument with Obi-wan, can't catch the worst bounty hunter in the galaxy, and lets himself be captured in a droid factory. The worst by far was that pathetic excuse for a lightsaber duel. Up until then I still had a glimmer of hope for the so-called tragic hero. I was thinking 'all right Anakin has been a moron for the entire movie, but now I get to see the cunning warrior and I'll see that he is a great Jedi and Obi-wan isn't letting him work to his full potential.' Instead I get thirty seconds of Anakin twirling two lightsabers around like it’s a bad kung-fu movie before getting his arm chopped off and being thrown under the ship. It was then that I finally accepted the truth, Obi-wan isn't holding him back he is holding himself back by being a total idiot.

[Chefelf]

Well put, The Other. Welcome to the forums.