[Lord Aquaman]

I've noticed that in the long line of Hollywood adventure epics you get at least two different young men - the talented, arrogant yet sympathetic young man/rebel without a cause who has to learn to buckle down and the talented but insecure young man who has to learn to come out of his shell. The former, for one reason or another, is often lumped next to the category of "tragic hero" (like Achilles from "The Iliad"). To me it seems we get a lot of these "tragic" or semi-tragic rebel figures, young men who are likable jerks.

George Lucas has said in many interviews that Anakin is supposed to be like a tragic hero like Achilles - a talented individual who is done in by his own pride. In trying to do this, George Lucas turned Anakin into a combination of a whiny brat-tacular teen and a mass murderer with a rapist leer.

The question I like to ask is why did Anakin have to be arrogant? There are SO many arrogant, rebellious young men in cinema - Luke Skywalker of the old trilogy could be viewed as a "rebel" of sorts - why did we have to take the same route with Anakin? It comes across as really cliche. A better characterization would have been to portray Anakin as insecure, reclusive, having a bit of an inferiority complex, maybe even scared of his own abilities. The Dark Side taps into a part of his personality that wants power not for power's sake but for security, to defend ones-self against a cold, cruel, uncaring world. As he garners more power, his personality gradually splits in two - the essential good half that is Anakin and the mean, sadistic half that calls itself Darth Vader. The Darth Vader half then proceeds to pursue the power of the dark side while the Anakin half unsuccessfully tries to resist it, until finally the Darth Vader half consumes the Anakin half, leaving Darth Vader as the dominant personality.

At least, that's what I think.

[Chefelf]

Well, you hit the nail on the head, Lord Aquaman. Even more so than "why did he have to be arrogant?" is "where did this arrogance come from?" Part of the problem of starting Anakin off in TPM as a little chubby-faced cherub is that it makes his arrogance and idiocy in AOTC even more "out of left field".

[HK 47]

Indeed a much better version than what we see in the cinema Aquaman. I don't think either version of "Hollywood male lead" is superior to the other though, as long as Lucas writes and directs it, it's gonna suck. I would have loved to have seen Anakin as the ultimate warrior of light, (not arrogant but courageous, unselfish and just) who falls because of his own pride or because of darkside treachery, or preferably both. There is nothing epic, tragic or dramatic about an obnoxious whiny teen.

[jariten]

he has to be arrogant. with arrogance comes the self belief that you have the power to go as far as you like and accomplish whatever you like. in Anakins case he thinks he can keep what he likes, and after he loses his mother he believes that, if he were more powerful, he couldve saved her in some way. regardless of wether thats actually possible or not, the important bit is that he believes that it is. in order to keep the tragedy out of his life hes going to keep going and going and going.

its the desire for power to keep things which turns to greed which turns to the lust for power which turns to episode 3. obviosuly, Obi wan is going to sense that hes going too far, and try to stop him.

Even more so than "why did he have to be arrogant?" is "where did this arrogance come from?" Part of the problem of starting Anakin off in TPM as a little chubby-faced cherub is that it makes his arrogance and idiocy in AOTC even more "out of left field".

yeah thats my biggest problem with it so far. with 3 in place, TPMs going to feel more like the odd one out then anything else.

although, Anakin clearly was a talented little git in TPM, so its not too much of a stretch to follow that on with Obi Wans line "his abilities have made him, well, arrogant".

[Garth Vader]

he has to be arrogant. with arrogance comes the self belief that you have the power to go as far as you like and accomplish whatever you like. in Anakins case he thinks he can keep what he likes, and after he loses his mother he believes that, if he were more powerful, he couldve saved her in some way. regardless of wether thats actually possible or not, the important bit is that he believes that it is. in order to keep the tragedy out of his life hes going to keep going and going and going.

its the desire for power to keep things which turns to greed which turns to the lust for power which turns to episode 3. obviosuly, Obi wan is going to sense that hes going too far, and try to stop him.

Even more so than "why did he have to be arrogant?" is "where did this arrogance come from?" Part of the problem of starting Anakin off in TPM as a little chubby-faced cherub is that it makes his arrogance and idiocy in AOTC even more "out of left field".

yeah thats my biggest problem with it so far. with 3 in place, TPMs going to feel more like the odd one out then anything else.

although, Anakin clearly was a talented little git in TPM, so its not too much of a stretch to follow that on with Obi Wans line "his abilities have made him, well, arrogant".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

making anakin a little kid in TPM was a big mistake. i know lucas had to get in the big emotional thing of an eight year old leaving his mother - his only family to join the jedi but he should've made him only slighly younger than luke was in ANH and write in another emotional thing in order to track anakin's emotional development as a jedi and a person and his relationship with his mentor obi wan and girlfriend padme. so far the prequel trilogy has been pretty uneven to say the least in portraying anakin believably.

[The Scornful Roman]

I've said before that I think that Lucas should have started the whole prequel thing off in the middle of the Clone Wars, with Kenobi and Anakin fighting alongside each other as friends. I can see Anakin as being arrogant (especially since Obi-Wan said that he was a great pilot), but it would be a jovial, cocky sort of arrogance, like Han Solo's. Anakin could have been a nice, courageous, charismatic guy who won friends and influenced people... unfortunately, one of those friends was Emperor Palpitine, who won him over to the Dark Side (perhaps out of an eagerness to win the war quickly for Anakin's own glory?).

[Michel Orla]

AOTC had the right outline for the beginning of the prequel trilogy. TPM started out as a stupid idea and just got worse. Anakin as an eight year old would be boring no matter how well the writing would be. Nothing in that movie did justice to the Star Wars backstory, most of all Anakin as a child

[J m HofMarN]

Hate to spam here but you might check out my version of the prequels, which while partly comical also provide a far more logical and emotionally fulfilling version of eps 1, 2 and 3. They're in the screening room.

[Just your average movie goer]

I also highly recommend JM's work. Great holiday fun. Two very enthusiastic thumbs up.

And while you're at it, I recommend having a look around the screening room. There's some good stuff over there.

[Madam Corvax]

Michel - sorry to go off- topic here, but I just love your avatar.

[Xombie]

And let me just add to this by questioning the very premise of a tragic hero. In the OT Vader is the head thug who does the dirty work for the dictator. His role is analogous to Himmler in Nazi Germany or Beria in Stalin's Soviet Union, not to mention countless medal-encrusted fossils in general uniforms standing behind the despotic President For Life dujour in uncounted African and South American countries. Does anyone think Himmler was a good man who took a wrong turn in life? That but for a tragic twist of fate Beria would have been anything other than a backstabbing murderer without remorse whose only real skill was that he understood the bureacracy in which he thrived better than most? Has a generally good guy EVER evolved into one of these mega thugs?

Baby Berias and teenage Himmlers do not have the makings of "a tragic hero."

What oh what was Lucas thinking?

[Helena]

Indeed a much better version than what we see in the cinema Aquaman. I don't think either version of "Hollywood male lead" is superior to the other though, as long as Lucas writes and directs it, it's gonna suck. I would have loved to have seen Anakin as the ultimate warrior of light, (not arrogant but courageous, unselfish and just) who falls because of his own pride or because of darkside treachery, or preferably both. There is nothing epic, tragic or dramatic about an obnoxious whiny teen.

Revan I actually wrote a fanfic focussing on how his fall to the Dark Side might have begun. It's not very good; however I think I can say with some confidence that it's more realistic than what happens to Anakin Skywalker.

And let me just add to this by questioning the very premise of a tragic hero. In the OT Vader is the head thug who does the dirty work for the dictator. His role is analogous to Himmler in Nazi Germany or Beria in Stalin's Soviet Union, not to mention countless medal-encrusted fossils in general uniforms standing behind the despotic President For Life dujour in uncounted African and South American countries. Does anyone think Himmler was a good man who took a wrong turn in life? That but for a tragic twist of fate Beria would have been anything other than a backstabbing murderer without remorse whose only real skill was that he understood the bureacracy in which he thrived better than most? Has a generally good guy EVER evolved into one of these mega thugs?

No, of course not, but in real life the Dark Side doesn't exist. If you're not willing to accept the concept of the Dark Side then of course nothing in the Star Wars movies makes any sense. It's like watching Lord of the Rings and saying "Oh, come on! Does anyone really believe that putting on a ring can turn you into an evil, power-crazed tyrant?"

[HK 47]

No, of course not, but in real life the Dark Side doesn't exist. If you're not willing to accept the concept of the Dark Side then of course nothing in the Star Wars movies makes any sense. It's like watching Lord of the Rings and saying "Oh, come on! Does anyone really believe that putting on a ring can turn you into an evil, power-crazed tyrant?"

Exactly, arrogance or even the death of loved ones wouldn't change an individual the way Anakin does. He would probably have been tremendously angry at the Emperor when he discovered the truth, his favorite politician is a Sith Lord working to destroy all hope and goodness in the galaxy, primarily the Jedi. But instead of striking him down, he actually joins him! It's the same old anger makes you evil problem. It follows that the Dark Side somehow enthralls him to the will of the Emperor. "I must obey my Master".

[Michel Orla]

Michel - sorry to go off- topic here, but I just love your avatar. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Madam! Even non Star Wars fans love those two little guys

Going back to Anakin, I've read two novels, and comic books, yes comic books, that have a better grasp on what the teenage Anakin should be like and how his relationship with Obi Wan should be handled. Why does it seem everyone but the man who created him know how to write this character

[Xombie]

The Dark Side doesn't explain anything in this film. As I've said before, the Dark Side in Star Wars is just short hand for "Evil." Everything Lucas considers cinematically evil (rage, corruption, kicking kittens) falls into the Dark Side. Every thing a boy scout would value (trust, honor, loyalty etc) turns out to be traits of the Light Side. Its worse than a cartoon.
There appears to be no real tenets or philosophy of any type behind this made-up mysticism. Okay, fine. Its a cinematic McGuffin. Yes, I can accept that even Lucas was too embarrassed just to have characters come out and simply say "I fight for good" or "I love eeeeevil."
BUT....this paper-thin concoction cannot then be used to explain otherwise inexplicable character development.
Let me once again bring up the comparison of the Godfather. Like Anakin, Michael Corleone is also turned from a good hearted but naive youngster in that film into a cold blooded monster by film's end. Contributing to that downfall is the Mafia's moral code which he initially wishes to have no part of but then comes to embrace and be corrupted by as he takes over the Family. The Code is not a few mumbo jumbo magic words and pablum catch-phrases that the director throws in. Its a palpable thing whose tenets (the code of silence, family loyalty, respect for authority) are understood and grasped by the audience before the movie is done. We can understand HOW the code corrupts.
But what is there, after five long movies, that we know about the Dark Side of the Force? Really.
How does one train to be a Dark Side Jedi? What questions are on the "Dark Side" jedi graduation exams. Is there an actual Dark Side philosophical school of thought? Nobody here can even guess because after five movies we've been given nothing.