[J m HofMarN]

I think I was the one who brought up Whitman, though I'm not sure. Ginsburg was influenced by Whitmans free style and he took it further and, having read Whitman I'm sure he would have approved.

[Madam Corvax]

Sorry, JM, I thought it was Civilian, but if it was you, I hand it to you then (the kudos, I mean).

[jariten]

Jariten- I think it's pretty well recognized that most people who create something do not do it without having been influenced by those who created before them, and so on and so forth.

yeah of course. its impossible to create something without another persons work creeping into it somehow, even if (like Lucas didnt) you intentionally set out to make something influence free.

what I was really railing against was hannibals mental suggestion that the great crushing hand of star wars was responsible for sweeping an entire generation of would-be brilliant minds off the map.

This post has been edited by jariten: 01 December 2004 - 12:05 PM

[J m HofMarN]

If that were at all true than why hasnt there been any recognition or protest of it? Surely Christian right groups (who lash out with abandon at DND, Rap music, fantasy novels, people who look at porn, people who breathe, etc) be attacking it? Wouldnt schools be distributing flyers about the dangers of starwards and teaching DARESW classes that are taught by theatre attendants?

[civilian_number_two]

Well, maybe. I suspect there are all sorts of things in America that have negatively influenced youth (consumerism, sports, Republicans), and the churhces aren't up against them either because they don't see the connection, or because they don't think the influence is negative.

So maybe the Church groups don't yet realize how bad STAR WARS is. Remember how long it took for people to turn against smoking, and it took the clear-cut logging industry's influence to get the public on the ban fur campaign ...

[jariten]

If you took the trouble you could probably piece together a decent sized body of critisicm directed at the harmful elements in SW that has been made by various people over the years. I remember some priest or other attacking TPM a while ago, although I cant remember if he was complaining about something anti-christian he saw in it or if he just thought it was shit.

[J m HofMarN]

Civilian- If the horrible sci-fi serials of the fifties didn't kill all our youth (which they obviously didn't since evidently the kids who watched them went on to become the hippies) then I'm sure SW can't do that much damage. And besides no matter how obsessed an SW fan gets they can never top the trekkies.

Jariten- I would have really expected the Christians to do a little more about the PT over Anakin Christwalker, but apparently that didnt occur to them. I think pretty much anything can be perceived as having harmful effects on children, especially with today's hyper active over protective idealized parenting. They got rid of all the fun equipment on playgrounds, they rated video games and they pracitcally crucified Howard Stern a few times. I think if Star Wars has remained safe so far there cant be that much wrong with it.

[Mad Rabbit]

I agree with JM, I'm also a bit surprised that the Christian Fundamentalists did not make as much of a stink over Anakin's immaculate birth in TPM.

I also felt obligated to try and come up with a list of potentialy harmful elements in SW, however I was hard pressed coming up with anything all that negative in the OT. However TPM is just filled with all sorts of nasty things that will fill young kids minds with all sorts of horrible ideas. For example...

In TPM

1.The immaculate birth of Anakin: For obvious reasons.
2. Those lustful stares between Amadala and Anakin: It promotes statutory rape.
3. The Bet Qui-Gonn makes with Watto: Promotes gambling AND cheating.
4. Jar-Jar's speech: Promotes improper grammer.
5. Everyone letting Anakin race: Promotes Endagering and explotation of children.

Notice how these are all supposed to be the GOOD guys!?

Sheesh I'm heading fo the nearest picket line right now!!!

[Despondent]

Sheesh I'm heading fo the nearest picket line right now!!!

No, don't go anywhere. Keep posting.

[J m HofMarN]

Mad Rabbit- Welcome aboard, it's always good to have new people to add to our musty old discussions. I think the OT promoted spice abuse, which explains why many children have become addicted to cinnamon...

[Mad Rabbit]

Thank you for the welcome Despondent and J m HofMarN!

I had to leave before I could post what the Christain Fundamentalists would take issue with in AOTC, so here is what I came up with.

1. Clones!: Holy Crap, this promotes stem cell research, and playing in an arena only meant for God! I am surprised the Pope didn't condemn this movie outright for this alone. Guess they were to busy besmerching teletubbies or something.
2. That little romp in the field of flowers Anakin and Amadala had: Promotes premarital sex.

Those are the only things I could really come up with, but it's pretty obvious fundamentalists don't need a good reason to hate a movie, although they would be justified for hating this particular movie even if they didn't have the two reasons I mentioned to harp about.

[jariten]

Some people just hate because its what keeps them going. Its often what gives groups a sense of identity and purpose. That said, I think most people just think of SW as a stoopid action toy for kids and move on.

[civilian_number_two]

I direct anyone who considered heart-felt my comments about the damage done by STAR WARS, first to the actual text of my post and then to this page here:

Informative link!

[Hannibal]

You know I actually met Allen Ginsburg before he died. No lie. In Ann Arbor Michigan, at a benefit for a Buddhist organization called "Jewel Heart" and at a Tibetan Buddhist Lecture by a certain Lama I will not name at this time.

As he interupted the meeting, all the hippies gawked and prostrated themselves before him, and as I stared at the Lama, who looked a little perturbed, I did think to myself, "what an asshole." Ginsburg literally without any regard in the middle of the lecture came in wearing a sherlock holmes type coat-cape and as if nobody was in the room, pranced in like he knew exactly the reaction he was going to get. The Lama ceased his lecture for a moment while Ginsberg made some rediculous comments and later left.

He seemed utterly confused I might add, as if every moment he was both confused about what he was going to say and at the same time waiting, staring at you hoping for some adoration.

It was actually pretty sad.

He died not long after his poetry reading benefit for Jewel Heart.

[J m HofMarN]

That might have had to do with the fact that he was horribly old at the time. I regret that i never was able to meet the man, especially while he was really in his prime. Ginsburg was a lot more than a druggy, he was a crusader for human rights and gay rights in particular, and a very well noted peace activist. And Hannibal, you might like this, he was kicked out of Cuba because him and Castro didnt get along when Ginsburg was invited to the palace of the revolution for dinner.