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Mesa Howl...

#1 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 03:09 PM

Mesa Howl

For Alec Guiness



I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by Star Wars, starving hysterical naked,

Lining themselves up on the streets at dawn looking for a Star Wars fix,

angelheaded geeksters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,

who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high stayed up watching in the supernatural darkness of the theaters floating across the tops of cities contemplating Yoda,

who rotted their brains with the Force under the GL and saw Sith Lords appearing on tenement roofs illuminated,

who passed through toy stores with radiant eyes hallucinating Anakin and Obiwan lightsabers in hand playing Jedi battles,

who were expelled from the academies for crazy & publishing obscene odes on the expanded universe,

who cowered in unshaven rooms in underoos, wasting their money on action figures and comic books and listening to John Williams through the wall,

who got busted in their pubic beards returning through Laredo with a belt of Star Wars dolls ,

who ate C3P0s in paint hotels or drank New Pepsi in Modesto, death, or purgatoried their torsos night after night

with dreams, with dolls, with special editions, prequels and costumes and endless cosplays,

incomparable blind streets of shuddering cloud and lightning in the mind leaping towards poles of Canada & Paterson, illuminating all the motionless world of Time between,

Celluloid solidities of halls, backyard green tree CGI dawns, mystical shit over the rooftops, storefront boroughs of R2D2 joyride neon blinking traffic light, sun and moon and Force vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Video, internet rantings and unkind darth light of mind,

who chained themselves to the street corner for the endless wait from Battery to holy Bronx on benzoylperoxide until the noise of Gungans and children brought them down shuddering mouth-wracked and battered bleak of brain all drained of brilliance in the drear light of TPM,

who sank all night in CGI light of Naboo floated out and sat through the stale plot afternoon in desolate post-1999, listening to the crack of doom on the CD player,

who talked continuously seventy hours from park to pad to bar to Bellevue to museum to the Brooklyn Bridge,

a lost batallion of platonic conversationalists realizing the rape of youth and lies believed, and knowledge unseen had fueled the childhood star wars dream...

yacketayakking screaming vomiting whispering facts and memories and anecdotes and eyeball kicks and shocks of gungans and farts and yippee!

whose intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days and nights with brilliant eyes, meat for the Lucasfilm factory to grind,

who vanished into nowhere Jedi Hell leaving a trail of ambiguous picture postcards of Lando Calrissian,

suffering Chi-Gone-Gin sweats and Tattoine bone-grindings and migraines of Neimodians under junk-withdrawal in the Wal-marts of their preconcieved notions,

who wandered around and around at midnight in the parking lot wondering where to go, and went, leaving nothing but broken hearts,

who lit cigarettes in the alleys racketing through snow toward lonesome farms in grandfather night,

who studied Force Jedi Taoism telepathy and bop yogananda because the universe instinctively vibrated when they viewd star wars,

who loned it through the streets of Idaho seeking visionary tibetan demons who were Obiwankenobis in their minds,

who thought they were only mad when their monitors gleamed in supernatural ecstasy,

who jumped in limousines with the knute gunrays on the impulse of winter midnight streetlight smalltown rain,

who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking yoda pez dispensers and followed the brilliant Scientologist to converse about the Force and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to insanity,

who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mount Doom leaving nothing behind but the shadow of Naboo and the larva and ash of George Lucas scattered in fireplace,

who reappeared on the West Coast investigating the XFiles in beards and shorts with big conspiritologist eyes sexy in their dark skin passing out incomprehensible leaflets,

who burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting the Midichlorian haze of Capitalism, who distributed antiGeorge Lucas pamphlets in Union Square weeping and wailing while the sirens of Mos Espa wailed them down, and wailed down Wall, and the also wailed Ralp Mcquarrie in his Wookie abode,

who broke down crying in in shock of Jefferson Starship and trembling before the TV of Life Day,


who howled on their knees in the subway and were dragged off the roof waving plastic lightsabers and manuscripts,

who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly Lucasfilm execs, and screamed with joy,

who blew and were blown by those human seraphim, the Jedi, caresses of Atlantian and Utopian love,

who played with themselves in the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass of public parks and movie theaters scattering their semen freely to whomever come who may,

who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob behind a partition in a special screening when the blond & aryan angel came to pierce them with a saber,

who lost their loveboys to the three old Jedis of fate the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual dollar the midichlorian that winks out of the womb and the Yoda that does nothing but sit on his ass and snip the intellectual golden threads of the craftsman's loom,

who collected ecstatic and consumed and fell off the bed, and continued along the floor and down the hall and ended fainting on the wall with a vision of ultimate Hasbro collection and come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness,


who faded out in vast sordid movies, were shifted in dreams, woke on a sudden howard the duck, and picked themselves up out of basements hungover with heartless Toydarians and horrors of Master Races iron dreams & stumbled to unemployment offices,

who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on the docks waiting for a door in the East River to open full of George Lucas comics and opium,

who created great suicidal dramas on the appartment cliff-banks of the Hudson under the blue harvest of the moon & their heads shall be crowned with laurel in oblivion,

who ate the poison stew of the Lucas imagination or digested the venom at the muddy bottom of the rivers of the Skywalker Ranch,

who wept at the romance of the Jedi with their pushcarts full of toys and bad lines,

who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the bridge, and rose up to build millenniumfalcons in their lofts, who coughed on the sixth floor of apatments crowned with flame under the fake posters surrounded by orange crates of theology,

who scribbled all night considering over lofty incantations which in the yellow morning were stanzas of gibberish, 'reach out' 'let go' 'run'

who ate rotten candy just because Artoos head faced them while dreaming of the pure vegetable kingdom,

who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for a Jedi,

who threw their brains off the roof to cast their ballot for a galaxy far far away...& alarm clocks fell on their heads every day for the next decade,

who cut their wrists three times successfully unsuccessfully, gave up and were forced to open comic stores where they thought they were growing old and cried,

who were burned alive in their innocent flannel shirts on Madison Avenue amid blasts of leaden verse & the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments of fashion & the triumph of the will of the fairies of advertising & the mustard gas of sinister intelligent editors, or were run down by the drunken womprats seeking revenge,

who jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge this actually happened and walked away unknown and forgotten into the ghostly daze of Yoda Jedi Master alleyways & mom's house, not even one free beer,

who sang out of their windows in despair, fell out of the subway window, jumped in the filthy Passaic, leaped on star trek fans, cried all over the street, danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed phonograph records of Meco Star Wars Disco finished the whiskey and threw up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans in their ears and the voice of Obiwan Kenobi in their ears,

who barreled down the highways of the past journeying to each other's hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude watch American graffiti incarnation,

who drove crosscountry seventytwo hours to the premiere of a computer degenerated motion video picture showing them Heinrich himmler's wet dream...

who journeyed to Hell, who died in Hell, who came back to Hell & waited in vain, who watched over Hell & brooded & loned in Hell and finally went away to find out the Time, & now Hell is lonesome for her george lucas fans

who fell on their knees in hopeless jedi cathedrals praying for each other's salvation and light and dolls, until the soul illuminated its hair for a second,

who crashed through their minds in jail waiting for impossible criminals with rubber heads and the charm of reality in their hearts who sang sweet blues to Alderaan,

who retired to Dagobah to cultivate a habit, or Jundland wastes to tender Buddha or Coruscant to boys or Detroit to the black locomotive or Berlin to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the daisychain or grave,

who demanded sanity trials accusing the Director of hypnotism & were left with their insanity & their hands & a hung jury,

who threw pez chips at Lucasfilm lecturerson Joseph Campbell and subsequently presented themselves on the granite steps of the madhouse with the shaven heads and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy,

and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin Metrazol electricity hydrotherapy psychotherapy occupational therapy pingpong & amnesia,

who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic prequel flaw, resting briefly in catatonia,

returning years later truly bald except for a wig of blood, and tears and fingers, to the visible madman doom of the wards of the land of the bothans,

Pilgrim State's Rockland's and Greystone's foetid halls, bickering with the echoes of the soul, buzzing and wizzing in the midnight solitude-bench dolmen-realms of lightsaber dreams, dream of life a nightmare, bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon,

with mother finally gone, and the last fantastic EU novel flung out of the tenement window, and the last door closed at 4 A.M. and the last telephone slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied down to the last piece of star wars merchandise , a yellow paper rose twisted on a wire hanger on the closet, and even that imaginary, nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination—

ah, Tolkien, while you are not safe I am not safe, and now you're really in the total animal soup of time—

and who therefore ran through the icy streets obsessed with a Jediknighthood of tomorrows and utopian republics full of flying xwings

who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images beamed by astromech droids, and trapped the archangel of the soulbetween 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensation of Heinrich Himmler

to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose and stand before you speechless and unintelligent and shaking with shame, rejected yet confessing out the soul to confirm THE GREAT LIE has been seen and understood...

the madman bum and Yoda elf in Time, unknown, yet putting down here what might be left to say in time come after death,

and devil incarnate in the ghostly clothes of Obiwan in the goldhorn shadow of the menacing phantom and blew the suffering of America's naked mind for love into an eli eli lamma lamma sabacthani saxophone cry that shivered the cities down to the last dvd player with the absolute heart of the poem butchered out of their own bodies good to eat a thousand years.


II

What sphinx of cement and aluminium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination?

YODA! Solitude! Filth! Ugliness! Ashcans and unobtainable dollars! Children screaming under the stairways! Boys sobbing in armies! Old men weeping in the parks!

YODA! YODA! Nightmare of YODA! YODA the loveless! Mental YODA! YODA the demon of medievel evil!


Lucas whose mind is pure machinery! Lucas whose blood is running money! Lucas whose fingers are ten armies! Lucas whose breast is a cannibal dynamo! Lucas whose ear is a smoking tomb!

Lucas whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Lucas whose skyscrapers stand in the long streets like endless Jehovas! Hasbro whose factories dream and choke in the fog! Lucas whose smokestacks and antennae crown the cities!

Lucas whose love is endless oil and stone! Lucas whose soul is electricity and banks! Lucas whose poverty is the specter of genius! Lucas whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen! Lucas whose name is the Devil!

Lucas in whom I sit lonely! Lucas in whom I dream angels! Crazy in Lucas! Cocksucker in Lucas! Lacklove and manless in Lucas!

Lucas who entered my soul early! Lucas in whom I am a consciousness without a body! Lucas who frightened me out of my natural ecstasy! Lucas whom I abandon! Wake up in Lucas! Light streaming out of the sky!

!

They broke their backs lifting Lucas to Heaven! Pavements, trees, radios, tons! lifting the city to Heaven which exists and is everywhere about us!

Visions! omens! hallucinations! miracles! ecstacies! gone down the American river!

Dreams! adorations! illuminations! religions! the whole boatload of sensitive bullshit!

Breakthroughs! over the river! flips and crucifixions! gone down the flood! Highs! Epiphanies! Despairs! Ten years' animal screams and suicides! Minds! New loves! Mad generation! down on the rocks of Time!

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 26 November 2004 - 03:23 PM

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
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#2 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 04:06 PM


"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#3 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 06:53 PM


"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#4 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 12:21 AM

I have to admit that was well thought out. Howl has become a bit of a cliche but it's still fun. Still I hardly approve of making light of the suffering of Ginsburgh and Cassady. Kerouac is ok because he turned into a jerk weed.

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#5 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 12:36 PM

I think Moloch should have been "Boba," but apart from that I'll bother to read that one day and comment.

That "best minds of my generation" seems even more hopeless in the context of STAR WARS nerds than it did when it referred to undergrads in the Literature department of Columbia University.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#6 User is offline   littlejerryseinfeld Icon

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 02:11 PM

that george lucas action figure is priceless!!!
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#7 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Nov 27 2004, 12:21 AM)
Kerouac is ok because he turned into a jerk weed.


Its interesting to see how you like to tell everybody what they should like and shouldn't like. Okay, check Kerouac off your list everybody...and as for Ginsberg, Hannibal has committed another sin against Hoffman, make sure you write that in your anti-Hannibal bible over there in the screening room.

So far as yet, Hoffie, I have yet to tear you down. Isn't that interesting? The only one I tear down is George W. Lucas, frankly, because there are many people here who want him torn down. I don't think I need to worry about your personal attacks or holy declarations about ginsberg or kerouac, because you will reveal yourself fully in due time. Sure there will be those out there who share your hatred of me, and nobody can do anything about that, but eventually, your egomania will crack and you will be tired of mocking and in the end become everything you hate.

The funniest thing is how you paint me and cast your dispersions endlessly about me, and none of it is true, about me that is, but as you continue...as i watch, you are becoming everything you say you hate. I've seen it all before. So march forth mr.freedom fighter, and begin utilizing the tactics of your enemies, slander and slur and concoct and spin, and sway and persuade. You should be directing that energy to something you truly believe in, rather than some pest you supposedly hate who posts in some internet forum, but of course, like with the poem above, "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by Star Wars..." here you are. instead of spending your time and energy on reality and doing something positive that you believe in, you waste your time here, not defending Lucas, not pointing something out about Lucas that you detest, not screaming about corporate capitalism, but whining about some guy who posts in the forums that there's something about him you can't quite put your finger on, but you just hate him. Have fun Hoffie, there's only one life, be the best hypocrite you can be, at least you'll always have that.

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 27 November 2004 - 04:38 PM

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
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#8 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 09:00 PM


"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#9 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 12:12 AM

QUOTE
"That "best minds of my generation" seems even more hopeless in the context of STAR WARS nerds than it did when it referred to undergrads in the Literature department of Columbia University."


If Ginsburg, Kerouac and Cassady weren't the best minds of their generation (late forties and early fifties) than who was, Joe McCarthy? It was Ginsburg's writing that influenced the hippie generation, and Ginsburg who continued to help lead that generation against hte Vietnam war even as people who had been schooled by his writings began to become co-leaders.

Hannibal: Kerouac renounced his friends and returned to his Catholic roots. He was the only member of the beat generation who publicly supported the Vietnam aggression. I respect him as an author and he had a cool time in his life but later he became kind of a dick. The beats are probably my favorite literary movement so I'm a bit pissed at Kerouac as a person for leaving them and their ideals, but I heap great praise on his writings.

As for everything else you said: ummm... yeah...

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#10 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 03:45 AM

"If Ginsburg, Kerouac and Cassady weren't the best minds of their generation (late forties and early fifties) than who was, Joe McCarthy? "

Yes, I'm absolutely sure that's what he meant. Anyone you seem to disagree with is dismissed with this kind of abuse. Yes, I'm sure civilian number 2 is a total fascist, how could he think such a thing, and by God he deserves immediate rejection! Cast him into the hell of 'suspected dispariging statements against the Left!"

Grow up and talk like a man, Hoffie.





Do we really need a lecture on Jack Kerouac and how much of a dirty christian fascist he was? If you are going to make statements like this why not post some links, articles, or quotes...I do. Oh, that's right you hate that, those things called facts, which back up your declarations. You just expect everybody to listen to your crap without any reason...and if they don't, you can intimidate them as you wish with more demands that they leave, or you'll write an angry and silly story about them, casting them as some rediculous character....Oh Hoffie, I'm so insulted by your literary skills(or lack thereof)...no keep it up Hoffie, I've suffered worse abuse in the Macgyver Fan Club forum. No seriously.



"Hannibal: Kerouac renounced his friends and returned to his Catholic roots. He was the only member of the beat generation who publicly supported the Vietnam aggression. I respect him as an author and he had a cool time in his life but later he became kind of a dick. The beats are probably my favorite literary movement so I'm a bit pissed at Kerouac as a person for leaving them and their ideals, but I heap great praise on his writings."

Hey Hoffie: back up your statement with facts, otherwise you are doing nothing but telling us total bullshit about Kerouac and the vietnam war. As I recall, he became an alcoholic, lived with his mom until he died, and made random incomprehensible statements about all kinds of things. It didn't appear he became a politician and hunted down Ginsberg with the CIA or McCarthy. He didn't have monumental power, he was a drunk. Oh, and I'm so sorry you're pissed at a man you never met for not going along with a "trendy" movement you and thousands of other wanna-be's romanticize. Its so nice to understand how you feel about every little thing, that way we know what to say and not to say around you. Thanks for the update. I'm glad you cleared up how we need to view all these details Hoffie, even though they HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL POST.

Be a good sport and give me some new lines in your opus, from this post, make sure I get a mustache and an armband, and make Kerouac my Sith Apprentice.

Maybe you could have me go back in time and hunt down and kill Allen Ginsberg and make me force Kerouac to do it, you could blame me for the downfall of the Beat Generation, because it was me after all who started the Vietnam War.

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 28 November 2004 - 04:14 AM

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
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#11 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 03:57 AM

"I respect him as an author and he had a cool time in his life but later he became kind of a dick. "


So tell me Hoffie, did Kerouac smell too? You must have known him personally, obviously. What was his favorite cigarettes?

"he had a cool time"

What the hell does this mean? When he starved and didn't have any money and begged for food, or when he slaved in the merchant marine? He had a cool time? Why because he smoked pot and met Timothy Leary? You are such a wanna-be, a trendy guy, you are. Its 2005, in case you didn't notice. It would help if you were able to look at things in some mature and rational way, if you are going to cast negatives on people. If you have something completely negative to say, it would be honorable even to an enemy, if you backed these declarations up with some facts, some real solid info, an article or a link. No? What do you have to stand on then? Charisma? Faith in some demagraphic of believers who also go along with redundant statements that are often regarded as fads,trends,slang and pop-culture myths? Right. I know how it is. You expect us to go along with your "hip-ness."

No I get the whole thing, the CHE icon, the random left-wing political statements that everybody can read on bumperstickers, and t-shirts. Its pop-culture mythology, I know, the Deadheads have become experts as this kind of thing. They know eachother a mile away from a few phrases and a bumpersticker. However, in order to appeal to a wider cross-section for your crusade, you need to broaden your language capacity.

You're such an American.

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 28 November 2004 - 03:58 AM

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
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#12 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 05:14 AM

Hannibal- I don't think I implied anywhere that Civilian was a McCarthyist, just pointing out that, aside from Einstien (who was really a product of an older generation) there were not really a lot of candidates for the old greatest mind award.

Also, I skimmed through your inane ramblings and found only three things to be of particular interest.

QUOTE
Its 2005, in case you didn't notice.


I'm not sure what time zone you're in, but it must be way ahead of even Movie Goer's time...

QUOTE
It would help if you were able to look at things in some mature and rational way, if you are going to cast negatives on people.


I called Jack Kerouac a dick. I did not post eight pages of lunacy about him disguising himself as Heinrich Himmler to scare guests out of a hotel so he could take over the silver mine beneath it.

QUOTE
"Oh, that's right you hate that, those things called facts, which back up your declarations."


If anyone disputes that Kerouac supported the Vietnam war or broke ties with his friends they can look it up themselves, I don't think anyone's worried about me conspiring to distribute fals information about him except for you. And rantings by starwars fans about nazis posted on the internet do not sound facts make.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
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#13 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 02:21 PM

"Hannibal- I don't think I implied anywhere that Civilian was a McCarthyist, just pointing out that, aside from Einstien (who was really a product of an older generation) there were not really a lot of candidates for the old greatest mind "

Yeah, you just happen to pull McCarthy out of your ass for no aparent reason.


"I called Jack Kerouac a dick. I did not post eight pages of lunacy about him disguising himself as Heinrich Himmler to scare guests out of a hotel so he could take over the silver mine beneath it."


Yeah I posted eight pages of historical data, facts, articles, links, comparisons, and similarities, I realize those things are lunacy to delusional people like you who read a book or two on Che Guevera and believe he's the second coming of Christ.





"If anyone disputes that Kerouac supported the Vietnam war or broke ties with his friends they can look it up themselves, "

One cop-out after another Hoffie, as I said somewhere before you must have learned to communicate by listening to Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. Aparently everybody here not only MUST know who Jack Kerouac is, but also take your word for it, and its their job to dispute any of your broad statements to have to find facts. You see Hoffie, this is why most of your RANTINGS are total shit. Your guerilla color commentary on the war, most political statements on your part, whether I agree with them or not, and much of your coloring of whatever it is you see around you if full of this trite bullshit which is comprised of arrogant declarations with no facts, no data, and barely even a theory. You're talking like a baby Hoffie, making broad declarations about everything, and basically lying most of the time skewing the truth:to paraphrase: "Hannibal posts endless random conspiracy theories that are full of nothing but insane ranting." Hannibal posts specific conspiracy theories which point out certain facts, gives links and sources and offers comparisons, and then leaves the readers to decide on their own. Very much unlike how you have perpetually decided to describe and degrade me. Its a lie Hoffie, and you're playing games. Not only that but, and at this point I've not bothered to waste time bashing every little thing you post in a thread of your creation, but the things you rant about are complete absolutism. You THINK everyone must listen to your shit without question. I on the other hand, leave people to their own devices, I make no absolute statements, certainly not about anyone in particular on this forum, that is plain rude and uncalled for. I have no problem if you want to believe Kerouac was a fascist who started the vietnam war(hey Hoffie, baby, not only am I being sarcastic again, I'm also patronizing you here again...in case you didn't realize it.) and you can believe whatever shit you want...about anything. Make rediculous statements that Mr.Joe Smith is a dick and supported the vietnam war, is like me posting one sentance about George Lucas: "George Lucas is a racist, and he wants all Muslims exterminated." This is a broad statement. No facts are given, nor comparisons, no evidence, no proof, and it constitutes a weak and useless and slanderous opinion based on nothing. However, saying, "Jack Kerouac's writings are inspired by nazis and he wanted white people to take over the world BECAUSE....then adding some comparisons, comments, quotes, facts, articles, links and some plausible or possible evidence supporting such a concept, and BAM you've got a statement that means something. It may not be true, it then leaves room for some argument, discussion, debate, and can even be open ended. Some facts will convict, others in a gray area, but all in all, it makes people think and then they make their own decisions which they ultimately will no matter what anyway.

Hoffie, you are a screw. A complete hippocrite, and full of illogic. But I understand its all about spin, and redirection for you. It would help if you just spelled out why you don't like my statements rather than give in to childish spin doctoring of the facts, outright lying and mis-stating facts and absolutist statements about everything. i realize you have no idea of how to communicate without declaring your blank and unfounded beliefs but its time for you to either go back to school or learn that in REALITY the world does not revolve around you and your empty and phoney convictions you read out of a couple of trendy books or watching a couple of popular movies.

If you are going to continue making statements like you do, you need to realize that all your bullshit whining about what Hannibal posts is a complete fraud. You speak with a forked tongue, and are inconsistant. What you allow for yourself, you allow no one the priveledge. So upon all this, before you prepare the next witty comeback and broad declaration or misuse of the truth, or mis-statement of facts that suits you and your "cause" whatever it is, grow up and face the truth. You can't communicate with me becaue you aren't trying, all your posts are for the benefit of your audience which you hope to sway. You're a child. You're a smart-ass kid, but you're such a toddler when it comes to trying to play off your political bullshit. Whenever I hear Rush Limbaugh on the air, I imagine a big fat baby playing games with words, a big, fat, selfish baby.

Goo-goo-gah-gah Hoffie.

(Oh I was being sarcastic and patronizing again there, what else can I do, there is no actual exchange here, so make sure your listeners gurgle about something that is foundationless again, but try to make it funny...you're just not even funny anymore.)


I don't think anyone's worried about me conspiring to distribute fals information about him except for you. And rantings by starwars fans about nazis posted on the internet do not sound facts make.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
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#14 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 02:58 PM

If this post is for Alec Guiness, then it would serve well his wanting to distance himself from star wars. (Admittedly, I didn't have the paitence to read the opening post.) But the issue ain't personalities on a web-forum, everybody. It's Lucas. We need to get together on this thing. Yet infiltrating our forum with accusingly caustic anti-Lucas propaganda isn't what we've been about up till now, either.

I heard an analogy this morning. Adding a cup of human waste to a quart of ice cream doesn't make the excrement any worse but it certainly ruins the ice cream. just a thought. If I was hovering, threatening tongue.gif, Ewok-God See-threepio you'd pay attention to what I'm saying.
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#15 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 06:08 PM

Despondent- What if the ice cream refuses to accept the excrement?

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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