[azerty]

Let's watch the movie together...

The scroll up says the rebels are "led by Luke Skywalker." Hold on! Yesterday he was a 20 year old farm boy with no experience, training, education, or skills (other than the ability to bulls eye womp rats of course) and today he is leading the whole rebel alliance? I guess advancement in the rebel army is pretty easy. One has to wonder how useless most of the technicians and privates must be, to be so low on the totem pole after such a long time.

Next paragraph - Vader is obsessed with finding young Skywalker. What!!! How the fuck does Vader suddenly know who Luke Skywalker is? He didn't care yesterday, or the previous 20 years worth of yesterday's, but today he is obsessed with someone who we presume he doesn't even know exists. And we also presume that Vader knows that it was Luke who rescued the Princess and destroyed the Death Star. (Though how he knows this information isn't explained.) But lets get on with the actual movie.

So let me get this straight. The Empire is hunting for the rebels, (sorry, hunting for Luke). They (he) could be anywhere in the galaxy. Now here's my plan! Lets get a few pods, say five from each Star Destroyer, and shoot them out into space. We'll allow one pod per planet, so by the end of the week we should have thoroughly searched about .001 percent of 500 planet's surfaces, and a grand total of about .00001 percent of all the planets in the galaxy. Yes, that's a cunning plan! Let's play tidily winks to while away the centuries until we get a result.

What are our heroes up to while this cunning scheme is unfolding? Well, Luke says he can't pick up any life on Hoth, but unfortunately 5 seconds later the abominable snowman jumps out from behind a snowflake and knocks the shit out of him. So much for that. Solo ambles back to base, and Leia gives him the evil eye. Solo suddenly states that he is leaving. General what's his name just says "Bummer... Okay then, what's for lunch?" It seems a bit sudden to me, but nobody else seems much upset.

Solo proceeds to blow off Leia, and then gets pissy when she blows him off right back. And what's with that stupid conversation in the hallway right afterwards? Does Harrrison Ford think he is Will Smith now or something? "you love me cause I make bein' a rebel look GOOOOOOOOD!" So what is supposed to have gone on before the movie starts? It's as if NOTHING has gone on. On the other hand, they are acting like there is some "big deal" that makes them deep, but also like
they have never seen each other before. Just how long after the last movie is this supposed to be taking place, anyway? Does Han see Leia at work every day, or has he not seen her in a long time. You just can't fgure it out!

Luke is frozen in a cave. His light saber is clearly about 10 feet away, but he streeeeeetches to try and reach it. Twice! Not only that, but there are bones and things everywhere. I thought this planet had little or no life? Well it doesn't now I guess. Luke cuts off the poor old yeti's arm and (even though it is night, freezing, blizzarding, he doesn't know where he or the way home, and has no transportation) tries to walk back to the base. Duh! Doesn't he have a radio? Yes, it's good for talking across the reaches of space, but won't make it the 5 miles back to the base. Why doesn't he just wait in the cave until morning? I'll answer that one for you. Because this movie is ridiculous!

Meanwhile, Threepio says that Artoo cannot pick up a signal. Is that the best they can do - have Artoo standing INSIDE the door with a three inch antenna waving around 6 inches above his head searching for a signal? For Christ sake, make an EFFORT you wankers! Then Artoo decides that the chances of survival are 725 to 1. What the hell is he basing that estimate on? It's downright preposterous!

But it's so moving and emotional! The characters are developing! Listen to the meaningful dialog!

Here is an example of typical gormless dialog: "Artoo has been know to make mistakes. From time to time. Oh dear, Oh dear." Or how about "He's quite clever you know. For a human being." I guess sometime between the last movie, where droids were worthless morons, and this one, the droids now think they are better than humans. What the hell happened?

Also, 12 minutes into the movie are we supposed to believe that something terrible is going to happen to the 2 main heroes?

Aha, Solo has the good idea of using the Tauntaun to help keep Luke warm. Luckily the Tauntaun dies at a convenient moment, so Solo doesn't have to show some character and actually kill it. (Which would have been pretty damn cool, come to think of it.)

So Luke and Han are saved! Thank God, I was so worried. Back at the base, Threepio says "It's so good to see you fully functional". "Fully Functional"??!! That's the kind of dialog that only somebody who really HATES science fiction could write. Next he'll be saying "Pleasure period terminated. Time to take your food pills!" Come on for Christ sake. This is followed by "pull the ears off a gundark" or "insert other imaginary science fictiony sounding creature here to add fantasy atmosphere" Remember, this is a science fiction movie, the fans expect that sort of thing. They're not too bright for the most part, you see...

Now hold on! This is a good story, well told, with characters I am interested in! It's not silly like you are claiming!

But listen. It only gets worse. Han's dialog; "... let a gorgeous guy like me out of your sight!" It's Will fucking Smith again! Who writes this crap? And people complain about Hayden Christiansen. You WANT Leia to blow him off. Leia's witty
retort? "Laser brains!" Ha ha, I get it; Science Fiction Movie + Laser + Brains. Fucking brilliant. It's so futuristic, you see.

Oh oh. A probe droid. Threepio can't understand it, so therefore it must be an imperial robot, QED. Good deduction, Threepio, obviously there can be no other explanation. Why do they send Solo and Chewie out to deal with it? Don't they
have any underlings they can delegate to. Oh, yeah, all the underlings are morons, otherwise they'd be generals by now. This is the rebel army remember - if you aren't a general two days after joining up you are worthless.

Why is that droid telling Luke how long it will take to evacuate t 47's? Shut up, droid. Speak when spoken to and don't ever offer me your opinion again! What the hell has happened to the Star wars universe since I've been gone?

Lets evacuate the planet now. Since orbital speed is a scalar quantity, why would the rebel ships take off directly at a star destroyer. And why would a couple of shots make the destroyer (which is waiting quietly in space) suddenly spin out of
control. Even if it blew the bridge off completely, the thing should just sit there like a derelict hulk. It's preposterous!

Luke attacks the walkers. "Echo station 5-7 we're on our way!" What is that supposed to mean? I thought Han Solo was Echo 7. And why would you "keep tight now"? Spread out you morons! One shot would take all of you out!

Lucky those speeders have "harpoons and tow cables." It might be our only hope of stopping them. What a load of bollocks. I guess that ion cannon that just shot down a star destroyer with a single shot, is no good. What about blowing up big pits in front of the walkers? Or since they only move at 1 mile an hour, just running up to them and chucking a grenade in the back door. Oh wait, Luke does that later...

"We've got a malfunction in fire control!" says Luke's co pilot. "Hang on Dack, just hang on! Get ready to fire that tow cable!" Did you not LISTEN, Luke, it is MALFUNCTIONING. HELLO! Dumbass. And even thought "that armor is too strong for blasters", lets have our boys in the trenches keep firing anyway. Energy is cheap, and so are our men. Maybe later we can send them over the top into the machine gun fire. "Don't worry chaps, I was a general at Verdun. I know what to do!!"

Oh, it's so amusing when Solo pounds the wall of the ship to get it to start. It's a starship! A precision instrument, but bang away! You know best. That little gun is stupid too. When did they install that? After Mos Eisley docking bay 94 I guess.

What's next? Two star destroyers crashing into each other after such an elementary trick by the Falcon. What kind of dumbass captains would not recognize that they were on a collision course? Even if Solo hadn't pulled that maneuver, they would still have been on a collision course.

Okay, so Threepio says the "hyperdrive motivator has been damaged." So Solo, instead of fixing the "Hyperdrive motivator" fucks around with hydro spanners, alluvial dampers and who knows what else. Why?? Fix the problem, dumbass, and escape!

And Luke? Luke wants to go to Dagobah. However, he doesn't bother to tell anybody. But the rebellion is supposed to be "Led by Luke Skywalker". So Luke the leader is going to disappear for an unspecified length of time for his own personal business. Even Artoo can tell all this is a stupid idea.

And since we know that x wings can hover like a goddam helicopter, why does Luke charge in at full speed through zero visibility with "all the scopes dead" towards an unknown planet? When he crashes, does he think "hmm, now I am stuck, and nobody knows where. What a dumbass I am!"

Meanwhile, back in the asteroid cave, Leia calls Solo a "scoundrel", and Solo acts as if he's never heard the word before. The most irritating part about this is that for the next 20 years people will now refer to Solo as "a loveable scoundrel". It will become the most overused noun in the Star Wars universe when talking about Mr. Han Solo. Why not call him a blackguard, a cad, an out an out rotter, a scamp, a cracksman, a rogue, a dacoit... nope he is now and forever a "scoundrel". Maybe all the people who use this word had never heard it before either.

Ok so the emperor's conversation tells us that he somehow knows that Luke destroyed the death star and that Luke is Vader's son. But Vader doesn't seem to know it himself. And yet why has Vader been chasing one small shitty ship through space. And what about the scroll up that said he was "obsessed with finding Skywalker?" It lacks sense.

That ridiculous space worm. Are we supposed to take that seriously? Like what does it live on? Certainly not mynocks, who seem live comfortably in it's stomach without ill effects. And what kind of digestive system is that? I guess food just
lays there in it's stomach and digests itself or something.

Meanwhile. Luke goes into the "Evil Cave". How can a cave be evil, it's a goddam inanimate object? Was it seduced by the dark side somehow? It's preposterous!

With Vader killing all his top commanders how does he ever expect to get anything done. Who would ever aspire to be a captain or admiral? Or is he doing it just to reinforce to us that he is evil? That's helpful, because I wasn't really
sure about his motivations, to be honest. But now I know he is motivated by BEING EVIL. I'm glad that's cleared up.

The Falcon heads for Bespin. The Bespin ships tell Solo "not to deviate from his present flight path." Less than one second later, Solo deviates. Actually I like this. In the Original, Obi Wan says "...and no questions asked" to Solo in the cantina. Solo's next response? A question!

Off the subject - why does everyone call Chewbacca "Chew BAH cah", when clearly his name is "CHEWbacka". Alec Guinness knew it, and Billy Dee Williams knew it. Why don't you? And the Princess's name used to be "Lia" not "Laya". What's up with that? And when did "Imperial Cruisers" become "Star Destroyers"? They're just questions, Leon...

So they torture Chewie in a prison cell. Do you think he said "do you mind if I bring this busted droid along? It'll give me something to do between torture sessions." "yeah ok, better take these tools along too."

Carbon freezing. Now why would Vader decide to take Luke to the emperor frozen. Why not just bring him in handcuffs or something. And then Lando casually remarks that it "might kill him". Oh yeah, good point, says Vader. THINK, Darth, you big moron! No wonder he has that black mask, how else would that dumbass manage to remember to breathe.

Boba Fett and that damn kiwi accent! I keep wondering if he is going to say "Luts puck up sume fush un chups, eh?" on the way to his ship. Yeah, Kia Ora dude!

Now, lets watch the next bit carefully. Lots of it doesn't make sense. What is Lando doing with those controls on the carbonite? Why does he emphasize "and in perfect hibernation" Why does Vader refer to Fett only as "Bounty hunter" Doesn't Vader know who he is? Don't the stormtroopers? Does Fett even realize who he is? Why does Fett shoot at Luke. He knows Vader wants Luke, so either he is trying to kill Luke (which will certainly piss off Vader), or he is trying to warn
Luke, which will also piss off Vader. What are we supposed to make of all this? Oh, who cares, let's get on with the next bit.

They make a big deal out of that door closing right in front of Artoo as he is following Luke in the city, but he wouldn't have been able to get over that sill anyway.

Ok what about light sabers? Luke whacks Vader in the arm pretty damn hard, but nothing happens. That shoulda been a home run! Doesn't even scorch the cloth of Vader's cape. And what's with Vader's hat? After he tells Luke that he is his dad, it looks like it is about to blow off in the breeze.

So let me get this straight. The heroes are all escaping in the Falcon, being chased by tie fighters and star destroyers. Artoo is sitting welding Threepio's foot, and casually remarking that he knows that the Hyperdrive motor has been
deactivated. Now up to this point in the movie, Artoo has been pretty smart, but why the fuck is he wasting his time on Threepio’s foot? Fix the real problem, you dumbass droid! He eventually does, and the movie is over.

So Empire does not have much plot. But, you argue, it has story. The characters we have come to know and love grow before our eyes! No they don't. Solo is actually reduced before our eyes. He was far more complex in A New Hope. Luke and Solo are good buddies. We knew that already. Solo might have the hots for Leia. Knew it from before. Leia can't really decide between Luke and Solo. Knew it. Vader can choke people from afar. Knew it. The Falcon is fast, but unreliable. Knew it already. Luke wants to become a Jedi. Knew it. Solo is a cool pirate. Knew it. So what do we get that is new? YES, Vader is Luke's Dad. YES, the greatest Jedi master alive is a little green gnome. (too bad he is so irritating though). Lando is new, but what has he got that Solo didn't have from before? Not much Another scoundrel with a heart of gold. Two new things... the rest is pointless re hash.

Now maybe if you were born in 1983, you popped in the three VHS tapes and watched the whole thing and were impressed. But if you had to wait three years for Empire after Star Wars, it wasn't worth it. It was the same disappointment as the Prequels are today. Star Wars was a movie. You watched it, it finished, and you were satisfied. Empire does not satisfy. You don't get any plot. You only get story if you know nothing about the Original. It is indefensible.

I only write this now because I had a vague idea that I didn't like Empire much when I saw it. I just borrowed the DVD from a fellow up the street to watch Empire Again, just to see if it is as good as EVERYBODY says. It is NOT as good as everybody says. (It's interesting that no matter what people's opinions are about prequels, or Return of the Jedi, EVERYBODY thinks Empire is fantastic, except me) What's up with that? What do they see that turns them into gushers? It's not the plot, it's not the dialog, it's not the characters. So what is it?

[capt.fox]

I AGREE...damn good post...you know the more lucas screws with the originals the more the fan base becomes pissed...hate to admit but i though the 1977 and 1980 installments were good, that after 1983 it stated its down hill slide and lost me...however after seen the butchery done to the 1977 installment, i think all SW episodes suck...i am ashamed that back in the day ( 1977 ) i was a fan...all that shit i collected i either gave to my nice ( which she has sold and made some profit off of ) or threw away...although i still have my battlestar galatica buger king glasses...and yet i will wach a re-run of battlestar galatica on sci-fi channel before i watch any and i mean any SW episode...i think jollywood is going to become mute soon...why because with the home computer, internet, semi-movie producing equiptment now that can be purchased at electronic stores, us the fan base dont need a stinking george lucas to bring visions to life...it can be done by the fans...like the vidieo recorders and vcr s did for the so-called "porn" industry , i think digital computers and internet "movies" will be that second revoultion...people are tired of being bullshitted to and talked down to and dumb down to in the movies...( like example on spike tv they showed a james bound movie, at the end this stupid woman is playing a chello with a bullet hole in it at a concert...what bullshit ! the hole would have distorted the sound, yet we are told to believe that this woman would be allowed to play at a professional concert setting....BULLSHIT ! )...the list is endless but the bottom line is the same...JUST BOYCOTT LUCAS, AND SW ...HIT OLD GEORGE WERE IT HURTS IN THE POCKET BOOK....

[Hannibal]

"The scroll up says the rebels are "led by Luke Skywalker." Hold on! Yesterday he was a 20 year old farm boy with no experience, training, education, or skills (other than the ability to bulls eye womp rats of course) and today he is leading the whole rebel alliance? I guess advancement in the rebel army is pretty easy. One has to wonder how useless most of the technicians and privates must be, to be so low on the totem pole after such a long time."

Ah...but Luke has more Midichlorians than they do!



"Vader is obsessed with finding young Skywalker. What!!! How the fuck does Vader suddenly know who Luke Skywalker is? He didn't care yesterday, or the previous 20 years worth of yesterday's, but today he is obsessed with someone who we presume he doesn't even know exists. And we also presume that Vader knows that it was Luke who rescued the Princess and destroyed the Death Star."



He was wandering through the snow one day, when the Ghost of Quigon Jinn told he must go to Bespin...




"So let me get this straight. The Empire is hunting for the rebels, (sorry, hunting for Luke). They (he) could be anywhere in the galaxy. Now here's my plan! Lets get a few pods, say five from each Star Destroyer, and shoot them out into space. We'll allow one pod per planet, so by the end of the week we should have thoroughly searched about .001 percent of 500 planet's surfaces, and a grand total of about .00001 percent of all the planets in the galaxy. Yes, that's a cunning plan! Let's play tidily winks to while away the centuries until we get a result."


I have no funny answer to this, you're right!



"What are our heroes up to while this cunning scheme is unfolding? Well, Luke says he can't pick up any life on Hoth, but unfortunately 5 seconds later the abominable snowman jumps out from behind a snowflake and knocks the shit out of him. So much for that. Solo ambles back to base, and Leia gives him the evil eye. Solo suddenly states that he is leaving. General what's his name just says "Bummer... Okay then, what's for lunch?" It seems a bit sudden to me, but nobody else seems much upset."


Yeah, see...wild promotions got the rebels into trouble.


"Solo proceeds to blow off Leia, and then gets pissy when she blows him off right back. And what's with that stupid conversation in the hallway right afterwards? Does Harrrison Ford think he is Will Smith now or something? "you love me cause I make bein' a rebel look GOOOOOOOOD!" So what is supposed to have gone on before the movie starts? It's as if NOTHING has gone on. On the other hand, they are acting like there is some "big deal" that makes them deep, but also like
they have never seen each other before. Just how long after the last movie is this supposed to be taking place, anyway? Does Han see Leia at work every day, or has he not seen her in a long time. You just can't fgure it out!"


They passed notes to eachother in the hall.


"Luke is frozen in a cave. His light saber is clearly about 10 feet away, but he streeeeeetches to try and reach it. Twice! Not only that, but there are bones and things everywhere. I thought this planet had little or no life? Well it doesn't now I guess. Luke cuts off the poor old yeti's arm and (even though it is night, freezing, blizzarding, he doesn't know where he or the way home, and has no transportation) tries to walk back to the base. Duh! Doesn't he have a radio? Yes, it's good for talking across the reaches of space, but won't make it the 5 miles back to the base. Why doesn't he just wait in the cave until morning? I'll answer that one for you. Because this movie is ridiculous!"


Well, thats not how Dersu Uzala went you see...


"Meanwhile, Threepio says that Artoo cannot pick up a signal. Is that the best they can do - have Artoo standing INSIDE the door with a three inch antenna waving around 6 inches above his head searching for a signal? For Christ sake, make an EFFORT you wankers! Then Artoo decides that the chances of survival are 725 to 1. What the hell is he basing that estimate on? It's downright preposterous!"


Its droid logic.




"Aha, Solo has the good idea of using the Tauntaun to help keep Luke warm. Luckily the Tauntaun dies at a convenient moment, so Solo doesn't have to show some character and actually kill it. (Which would have been pretty damn cool, come to think of it.)"

...or use it to escape.



"Leia's witty
retort? "Laser brains!" Ha ha, I get it; Science Fiction Movie + Laser + Brains. Fucking brilliant. It's so futuristic, you see."

Its better than "exqueeze me."



"Oh oh. A probe droid. Threepio can't understand it, so therefore it must be an imperial robot, QED. Good deduction, Threepio, obviously there can be no other explanation. Why do they send Solo and Chewie out to deal with it? Don't they
have any underlings they can delegate to. Oh, yeah, all the underlings are morons, otherwise they'd be generals by now. This is the rebel army remember - if you aren't a general two days after joining up you are worthless."


Its the Captain Kirk Rule, only the Captain and officers can manage to deal with hostile situations.



"Lets evacuate the planet now. Since orbital speed is a scalar quantity, why would the rebel ships take off directly at a star destroyer. And why would a couple of shots make the destroyer (which is waiting quietly in space) suddenly spin out of
control. Even if it blew the bridge off completely, the thing should just sit there like a derelict hulk. It's preposterous!"


Since I know nothing of physics I will take your word for it.


"Lucky those speeders have "harpoons and tow cables." It might be our only hope of stopping them. What a load of bollocks. I guess that ion cannon that just shot down a star destroyer with a single shot, is no good. What about blowing up big pits in front of the walkers? Or since they only move at 1 mile an hour, just running up to them and chucking a grenade in the back door. Oh wait, Luke does that later..."


You have to understand that they didn't have ion cannon's in Lord of the Rings, they had to somehow get up on those Oliphants.



"Okay, so Threepio says the "hyperdrive motivator has been damaged." So Solo, instead of fixing the "Hyperdrive motivator" fucks around with hydro spanners, alluvial dampers and who knows what else. Why?? Fix the problem, dumbass, and escape!"


Because in the episode of the 1978 Series Space Pirate Captain Harlock, the tools fell on the space pirate's head when they were trying to fix the ships engine, while being chased by the space patrol, right before they entered the asteroid field, when will you learn?



"And Luke? Luke wants to go to Dagobah. However, he doesn't bother to tell anybody. But the rebellion is supposed to be "Led by Luke Skywalker". So Luke the leader is going to disappear for an unspecified length of time for his own personal business. Even Artoo can tell all this is a stupid idea."


Actually the real question is how does he know where Dagobah is? Isn't Yoda hiding there because its an anonymous planet that no one's ever been to before?



"Ok so the emperor's conversation tells us that he somehow knows that Luke destroyed the death star and that Luke is Vader's son. But Vader doesn't seem to know it himself. And yet why has Vader been chasing one small shitty ship through space. And what about the scroll up that said he was "obsessed with finding Skywalker?" It lacks sense."


...he was chasing a Skywalker though....


"That ridiculous space worm. Are we supposed to take that seriously? Like what does it live on? Certainly not mynocks, who seem live comfortably in it's stomach without ill effects. And what kind of digestive system is that? I guess food just
lays there in it's stomach and digests itself or something."


It eats asteroids and millennium falcons.


"With Vader killing all his top commanders how does he ever expect to get anything done. Who would ever aspire to be a captain or admiral? Or is he doing it just to reinforce to us that he is evil? That's helpful, because I wasn't really
sure about his motivations, to be honest. But now I know he is motivated by BEING EVIL. I'm glad that's cleared up."


Well, they do have a zillion clones when they run out of white british guys.



"Off the subject - why does everyone call Chewbacca "Chew BAH cah", when clearly his name is "CHEWbacka". Alec Guinness knew it, and Billy Dee Williams knew it. Why don't you? And the Princess's name used to be "Lia" not "Laya". What's up with that? And when did "Imperial Cruisers" become "Star Destroyers"? They're just questions, Leon..."


Let me tell you about my mother...





"Now, lets watch the next bit carefully. Lots of it doesn't make sense. What is Lando doing with those controls on the carbonite? Why does he emphasize "and in perfect hibernation" Why does Vader refer to Fett only as "Bounty hunter" Doesn't Vader know who he is? Don't the stormtroopers? Does Fett even realize who he is? Why does Fett shoot at Luke. He knows Vader wants Luke, so either he is trying to kill Luke (which will certainly piss off Vader), or he is trying to warn
Luke, which will also piss off Vader. What are we supposed to make of all this? Oh, who cares, let's get on with the next bit."

Actually, Boba Fett and his souvenir necklace of Jedi ears should have given him away.



"Ok what about light sabers? Luke whacks Vader in the arm pretty damn hard, but nothing happens. That shoulda been a home run! Doesn't even scorch the cloth of Vader's cape. And what's with Vader's hat? After he tells Luke that he is his dad, it looks like it is about to blow off in the breeze."


He has special anti lightsaber armor, didn't you know that? Come on, its all explained in Episode III.



"I only write this now because I had a vague idea that I didn't like Empire much when I saw it. I just borrowed the DVD from a fellow up the street to watch Empire Again, just to see if it is as good as EVERYBODY says. It is NOT as good as everybody says. (It's interesting that no matter what people's opinions are about prequels, or Return of the Jedi, EVERYBODY thinks Empire is fantastic, except me) What's up with that? What do they see that turns them into gushers? It's not the plot, it's not the dialog, it's not the characters. So what is it?"


I happen to agree with you, so light up and we shall continue to bash the Empire Strikes Back for the next few days.

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 25 November 2004 - 07:26 PM

[J m HofMarN]

I have dispatched the three ghosts of trilogies past to come to your house and teach you the true meaning of starwars.

You didn't like Yoda, you didn't like the battle of Hoth. Is it possible you just dont like anything?

[Garth Vader]

you tell him!

it was an interesting read and im glad the guy took his time to write it by imo empire is just a great film. i love it, by far the best SW film. it just has a very warm feel to it. one of the reasons for that is I love the characters and I care what they go through and the battle of hoth and the asteriod chase are the best action sequences in the trilogy. sure it has flaws but when you look at the prequels they're just one big flaw.

[Hannibal]

IT SUCKS. FACE IT. STOP LIVING IN DENIAL.

[J m HofMarN]

Hannibal:

IT SUCKS.

You make a good point. However I wish to point out that it does in fact, not suck. I know this argument is hard to make but I'll try my best.

FACE IT.

You're being a bit obscure here. I'll assume you mean for me to face the fact that it sucks. Oh you crafty dickens you've used clever wording to implies that the suckiness of this film is fact. Tuche!

STOP LIVING IN DENIAL.

Well well. four words. Clearly we're bringing out the big guns now. I suppose there's no opposing your superior logic. Return of the Jedi does indeed "SUCKS."

Sensible people:

You know there were actually some decent problems laid out but they're easily overlooked. I agree Luke was not the leader of the rebellion but I think he could have been considered a hero or an inspirational leader and as for all this Will Smith stuff lets not forget that this film occured before that even existed. If anything Will Smith was copying Harrison Ford. In short the problems are minor and do not leave holes in the plot as a whole. If you don't like the movie you don't like it, but you're clearly even more in the minority here than Jariten, so there must be something you're missing.

[Hannibal]

STAR WARS (all of them) sucks because:

1. Its endlessly unoriginal
2. Its plagiarised
3. Its inspired by Fascist ideology and mysticism
4. Its meant to sell merchandise on unprecidented scales
5. Its full of rediculous truisms which can mean anything to anybody
6. Its full of bad dialogue and bad directing as noted by Alec Guiness, Ewan Mcgregor, Harrison Ford and Anthony Daniels
7. Its directed by the man who brought us Howard the Duck
8. George Lucas is a greedy, fat, sick, adolescent in a grown man's body
9. It misused too much good talent
10. It has brainwashed way too many of my generation

[Hannibal]

Fun Fact#1:


Did you know that George Lucas planned to open "Star Wars Stores" and was attempting to sell rights merchandising before he filmed even one frame of Star Wars A New Hope?

Source: Charles Lippincott, former vice president of Lucasfilm in Unauthorized Star Wars Story, now available on Video.

[J m HofMarN]

Hannibal, don't take this the wrong way, but would it be too much trouble to sod off and die?

[jariten]

azerty- great post. i think that dissecting the holiest of holies in that way could do us all the power of good. it also kind of brings up what i keep saying about the complaints of the prequels and their flaws is that if you take a few steps back and look at the OT you could easily come up with a convincing Chefelf type list for these things. a lot of peoples views of the OT are mired in childhood memories and myth.

but i do think that the flaws in these films are the sacrifices you have to make because of the types of films that they are. what is the point of showing how Luke got to be in such a position of responsibilty? yes its lazy scriptwriting, but its fast, and if were to be honest, thats a pretty important aspect of SW.

[Madam Corvax]

Someone, I can't really remember who, some time ago similarly treated ANH claiming it is rubbish too.

Maybe it is, but it is still rubbish that I love and worship.

I have tried to read all azerty post but I stopped after he slams the romance :

Solo proceeds to blow off Leia, and then gets pissy when she blows him off right back. And what's with that stupid conversation in the hallway right afterwards? Does Harrrison Ford think he is Will Smith now or something? "you love me cause I make bein' a rebel look GOOOOOOOOD!" So what is supposed to have gone on before the movie starts? It's as if NOTHING has gone on. On the other hand, they are acting like there is some "big deal" that makes them deep, but also like
they have never seen each other before. Just how long after the last movie is this supposed to be taking place, anyway? Does Han see Leia at work every day, or has he not seen her in a long time. You just can't fgure it out!

I am really sorry - I could and I still can. I was, like, 13 when I saw this film for the first time and I was rather a dumb child at that age I think, but still I easily figured it out.

You do not have to wonder if he sees her every day, or every week or month. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it is two year or six month after the first film.

Leia gives Han that look at the very beginning of the film, and it is all in that long, serious look. She cares for him, but still is not sure if he is just a rascal. What is happenieng is Han has to prove that "a guy like him" is worthy of a princess If you don't get it, then, I think, your sensitivity is pretty much nil. Maybe I am a hopeless romantic. Maybe I continue being dumd.

But I would rather have this than "beware of your thoughts, they betray you" silly prequel-sequel to a pre-adolescent hots of a squeeky - clean eleven-year-old towards a teenager.

[Xombie]

An astonishingly good list of reasons, azerty. ESPECIALLY about that stupid-ass space worm.

However I will argue one point: Vader's draconion treatment of his commanders. It does not show him being evil for evil's sake. Indeed, the one thing I give Lucas credit for is that he does not suggest anywhere that Vader is a sadist. He is, rather, a driven company man without the shackles of moral limits. He kills the commanders not to take some kind of stupid vengence but as a motivational tool to inspire his other commanders to redouble their efforts. Its a strategy that worked pretty well for Stalin in the Second World war in which many a general found himself in front of a firing squad for nothing more than military failure.

[Helena]

You could probably write a list like Chefelf's for just about any film in existence. The difference between ESB and the Prequels - at least for the vast majority of us here - is that ESB is still an enjoyable film while the Prequels are not; this is why we consider Chefelf's lists amusing rather than just pointless nitpicking. And that's all I have to say about it.

[Paladin]

Normally I would agree with you, and I have decided to see a small part of ESB because I haven't seen it in years... it's still a fun movie, but Hannibal and his plagerism charges and your article might as well give me some reason to dislike it.

I just don't care for Star Wars anymore, and I've said that a lot.