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Now I'm scared No Christian Left Behind

#16 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 10:56 AM

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Nov 17 2004, 11:17 PM)
VWing- Hello. I'm not sure you realize this but THIS MANIAC BUTCHERED A HUNDRED THOUSAND FUCKING PEOPLE IN IRAQ! Why is it that Americans tend to get more worked up over having a bloody book in a school building or a stupid tax increase than they do over corpses lying in the streets of Falluja.


Since when is it possible to only be upset about one thing? If you're upset about the Iraq thing, then voice your opinion elsewhere. Vwing started this topic to debate the problems with this whole Bible in school business and I don't blame him, it is very scary.

If every debate was hijacked to debate something deemed "more worthy of debate" then that wouldn't really make for too much diversity.

You can get upset about the bible in schools. You can get upset about a flat tax. And you know what? When you're all done, you can still have room to feel deeply saddened by the whole mess in Iraq. The angry feelings from these different subjects are not mutually exclusive.
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#17 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 05:17 PM

Oh come off it, it's never going to happen. You guy's have plenty more things to worry about than evil Christians forcing the bible down your throat. For one, not getting hit by a Bus or being caught in public with your fly not zipped up.
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#18 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE
"Since when is it possible to only be upset about one thing? If you're upset about the Iraq thing, then voice your opinion elsewhere. Vwing started this topic to debate the problems with this whole Bible in school business and I don't blame him, it is very scary."


Chef- I misinterpreted something VWing said in another thread about the people writing on ancient Babylonian walls. He said that despite all the stuff going on in Iraq that America was still a good country and my argument came from his possible rescinding of that comment due to the bible thing. I also think it's terrible especially because of what it might lead to. The thing that generally made me mad was that it looked like ethnocentrism, I have no problem with the discussion of this issue and recognize its full importance.

QUOTE
"You guy's have plenty more things to worry about than evil Christians forcing the bible down your throat."


Christianity is currently the predominant religion. We address god (the only major religion with a god named god is Christianity) every day at the start of school and many public events. In school we have prayer time wherein EVERYBODY in the class EXCEPT you prays to this god. In what way does this not endanger freedom of religion? It's peer pressure just like smoking. Do you think that if we said "and liberty and justice and flavor country" and then had "smoking time" in our schools that the majority of children would take up smoking?

The other religions are largely quiet and in a few communities there is an honest choice but for most people they're going to grow up to be Christians, even people who come here from other countries eventually see themselves or their children swallowed into our local religion. So yes I think there's a serious danger of the country slowly moving towards theocracy.

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#19 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 01:11 AM

Why aren't the minority religions standing up? Surely the Jew's or the Hindu's or the Buddhists would be complaining? Jordan, imagine if your children went to a government school and had to sit around and watch as the teacher went through leading the class in worship of the various Voodoo spirits?

Religion of any sort should only be taught in schools if it is a private school dedicated to that religion, or it is taught as part of a theology course that looks at multiple religions from a non-biased veiwpoint.
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#20 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 02:13 AM

QUOTE
Jordan, imagine if your children went to a government school


It would never happen to me, I'd never move to a country that premotes any religon. I live in Canada. The most neutral country in the world.

And if it did happen to me I just tell my kid that it's bullshit, take him out of that school, or something along those lines.

I went to highschool and was taught evolution. I never complained. Even though all the process they tell you about in HS are out dated and no longer considered worthy theories.

We address god (the only major religion with a god named god is Christianity)

God is not his name. God is the English term for higher power, diety. I'm sure they did not even call him 'god' in the orginal scriptures. Jesus was "yahwea" or soemthing. Islamic people call Allah God, and Buddah is called a God Head. And some people belive that they are their own God.
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#21 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 03:08 AM

QUOTE
"Why aren't the minority religions standing up? Surely the Jew's or the Hindu's or the Buddhists would be complaining?"


If a Hindu says something in a forest full of Christians who dont want to hear it, does he make a noise?

QUOTE
And if it did happen to me I just tell my kid that it's bullshit, take him out of that school, or something along those lines.


People tell their kids not to smoke as well but if they hang out with people who smoke every day before school starts they're way more likely to start.

QUOTE
God is not his name. God is the English term for higher power, diety. I'm sure they did not even call him 'god' in the orginal scriptures. Jesus was "yahwea" or soemthing. Islamic people call Allah God, and Buddah is called a God Head. And some people belive that they are their own God.


No, God is not his name but that is what most people know him as. Most Christians do not even give him any other name than God. His true name would be Jehova. My point was that when you say the English word God in the US it is generally assumed that you are speaking of Jehova, unless you specifically state otherwise.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#22 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Nov 21 2004, 03:13 PM)
And if it did happen to me I just tell my kid that it's bullshit, take him out of that school, or something along those lines.


But if its part of all the public schools, that would involve finding an atheist private school(something that I've never come across, but it may be different there). And what of people who can't afford private education?
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#23 User is offline   WalrusOfPlastic Icon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 12:31 AM

Despite having been stirred by a miscommunication, J.M.'s earlier entries did pose an interesting question. Why (to some I'm presuming) would this new incident cause more unrest than the mass murders in Iraq.
Personally, along with what was previously stated, that this is a little closer to home for Americans (even to me Iraq holds so little direct reality as to seem like some kind of nightmarish fantasy, which is why I'd like to go there soon), the reason this ultra Christian statement seems to have struck so hard to some is that it is such a back-step in American progress. America has never been good at not bombing other nations. It is also generally felt by most people that war can in some cases be justified and so in the back of many anti-war protesting types (myself included) is a tiny voice that's saying "Maybe they do know something you don't. Maybe they do have justification. Maybe it will work out for the better. I mean it's possible isn't it?" But with this new statement Bush is making it absolutely clear that his politics are not centered around logic as much as they are around faith. Perhaps a more frightening idea than the statement itself was the fact that he felt safe to say it to America, which means he feels that the majority of Americans will support this standpoint, which means we are not a country who's decisions are based in logic any longer. We are at this point a faith based country. And that is perhaps more frightening than the iraq murders in that it completely removes that little voice of hope from the back of our minds.

Edit: Spelling and stuff.

This post has been edited by WalrusOfPlastic: 23 November 2004 - 12:32 AM

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#24 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 04:29 PM

Very good points, Walrus, though I'm just curious, what did this sentence mean?

QUOTE (WalrusOfPlastic @ Nov 23 2004, 12:31 AM)
America has never been good at not bombing other nations.


I think it means we love to bomb other nations, which I would say is decidedly false, in history we've normally tried to stay away from doing that. It's just the last, well, 4 years when we've started really doing that, other than the first Gulf War. But you may mean something else, I'm not sure.
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#25 User is offline   Slade Icon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 07:55 PM

Nah, the US has been imperial since Teddy Roosevelt and Panama. Cuba, Philipines, Hawaii, Korea, Vietnam, just off the top of my head. There are others, but I can't think of them right now. Not literally bombing the whole time, but hopefully you get the picture...
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#26 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 08:12 PM

"Panama. Cuba, Philipines, Hawaii, Korea, Vietnam,"

Bolivia Nicaragua Grenada Russia(we invaded them during world war 1 but we botched it up) Mexico, Congo, Venezuela, Afghanistan Lebanon Saudi Arabia Egypt Israel, Columbia and East Timor.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#27 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE (Slade @ Nov 23 2004, 07:55 PM)
Nah, the US has been imperial since Teddy Roosevelt and Panama. Cuba, Philipines, Hawaii, Korea, Vietnam, just off the top of my head. There are others, but I can't think of them right now. Not literally bombing the whole time, but hopefully you get the picture...


Heh, my figurative sense must be off today. I did think he meant bombing the whole time. That's why when you started this post with Teddy Roosevelt I was a bit confused smile.gif. I do get the picture now though. Sorry Walrus.

This post has been edited by Vwing: 23 November 2004 - 08:38 PM

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#28 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 09:11 PM

Saying the U.S. hardly bombs anyone is kinda like saying that a serial killer who likes to stab people rarely shoots anyone.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#29 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:18 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Nov 21 2004, 02:13 AM)
I live in Canada. The most neutral country in the world. 

I went to highschool and was taught evolution.  I never complained. Even though all the process they tell you about in HS are out dated and no longer considered worthy theories. 


Jordan, sorry to interrupt, but this statement of yours just got me.
Firstly, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you are actually sorry for living in Canada, most neutral country in the world. You were SARCASTIC about it being so neutral - remember the "society" thread. And here you go again. If it is just another attempt at saarcasm, perhaps you should kindly notify someone like me.

And secondly - please provide me with proper references stating that evolution theory is no longer considered "worthy". I must have missed this particular development of modern science.
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#30 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 03:53 AM

MC: I don't rememeber what Jordan is studying, but since he used "processes" interchangeably with "theories," and since like a lot of people he equates "theory" with "hypothesis," I'd say it's not pure science. Maybe Engineering, but I seem to recall arts.

So, yeah. "Evolutionary theory" has been discredited, they say. Or outdated, or something. Rather like Newtonian Physics and Euclidean Geometry. That is to say, not a 100% accurate depiction of the universe, and so COMPLETELY useless.

Therefore, back to the "Theory" that the universe is run with clockwork precision by angels with pulleys, and was invented by an invisible superhero who died in a messy bit of torture as documented by Mad Max.

rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 25 November 2004 - 01:45 PM

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