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Now I'm scared No Christian Left Behind

#1 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 10:04 PM

In case you haven't seen it, apparently, George W. Bush has appointed a new Secretary of Education. Now there are many ways that still would have been scary to introduce her. But the way he did it takes the cake. I give you the scariest thing I have ever heard a major politician say.

"She will bring the bible back to our schools."

Earth-to-George.

THE BIBLE NEVER WAS IN OUR SCHOOLS! IT'S THE BASIS OF OUR FUCKING COUNTRY THAT IT IS NOT IN OUR SCHOOLS!

In another thread I defended America, saying we're still a great country despite Bush, yada yada yada. I think I may rescind that statement now.

He's going to rescind the separation of Church and State, quite possibly one of the most important aspects of the Constitution. He's really going to do it. I'm sure people will try to fight, but all those damn Bible Belters, they're loving this. And the Supreme Court, with a conservative majority that will only get larger in the next few years, will surely come up with a bullshit explanation why it's constitutional, just like they came up with a bullshit explanation as to why they stopped the recount in Florida, though it went against everything the conservatives stood for.

As a British newspaper said, where's John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald when you need them? I mean, Lincoln and Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. are assassinated, and this asshole is still standing?

Oh and I should probably amend the subheading I put. I forgot that sects of Christians hate other sects of Christians almost as much as they hate non-Christians. So make that No Protestant Left Behind.
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#2 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 10:45 PM

ironically, the bible actually predicts the merging of church and state as one of the acts of the 'antichrist working with it's great false prophet' that will be their greatest deception...

smile.gif

uh, well something to look forward to i guess...
not that i'm pushing what the bible says...

i just like the idea of forcing people to read a book that describes the very act of them being forced into it as the worst thing that will happen to them...
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#3 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 11:17 PM

VWing- Hello. I'm not sure you realize this but THIS MANIAC BUTCHERED A HUNDRED THOUSAND FUCKING PEOPLE IN IRAQ! Why is it that Americans tend to get more worked up over having a bloody book in a school building or a stupid tax increase than they do over corpses lying in the streets of Falluja. These are human beings he's murdering, even if they're not Americans! Sure it's good that you realize he's a bastard but get your reasoning straight. You can defend him when his boys in Baghdad burn women and children and America is still a fine place but when he wants the bible taught in schools he's gone too far?

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#4 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 11:47 PM

because when bibles are in every class room...

he will find it easier to kill more...

and i pray to jesus with the rest of you my faithfull followers that with gods help i might serve another 10 years as your president... it to rid the world of those filthy faithless towel heads... every iraqi old enough to walk will be considered a threat, and taken out of his home and killed... now let us all gather around the lindy england monument with my side kick influenzas nice and pray to god to help gide my hand as a strangle the world...

sorry i got carried away there... but i think you get the idea...
this isn't about some book... this about making the most violent and opressively egocentric religioen in the world the driving force behind the only unchallanged fist world power left...

it will tripple his influence and allow him to do whatever the fuck he wants...

this is by far the worst thing to ever happen... for the same reason you think it isn't
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#5 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 03:17 AM

I'm surely not saying it isn't a bad thing. I'm just saying that right now there are people being tortured and murdered by American storm troopers and it hasnt caused half the outrage of Bush wanting bibles in schools or clinton having consensual sex. The American moral is so completely fucked right now. I mean people cried for how tragic september eleventh was (even though their government fucked over the Arab world until it was bound to happen) but when ten times more people are killed in Faluja hardly anyone blinks. People, American life is not the only life that matters in this world.

Thats egocentrism, not putting bibles in classrooms. As soon as we stop shooting off childrens limbs in Iraq then I'll gladly work on getting bibles out of schools. Priorities people, priorities.

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#6 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 04:36 AM

A long time ago I watched a stupid film called "an Outbreak", Dustbin Hoffman in a career low. Military was considering a harsh action agains a town struck with an outbreak of a lethat disease. The argument provided against this action was"Those people there are Americans".

I was really offended. Does it mean that American life is valued higher than a Somalian, Mexican or Polish? Yet, having the latest development of the worl in view, it seems so. This American attitude is not a work of Bush alone, it's been there for a long time.

It is bad to stereotype a nation. But attitude of a government can be named, I think, and it somehow reflects trends in the society So I venture to say that no other country is as megalomaniac and egocentric as America, save, perhaps, Russian. Combine this with strenght of economy and technology development and there you are. A cowboy who cosiders "Injuns" as a lower species.

And, if you want to see the result of "more bible in the classroom" go and read my posts concerning women rights in Poland in the "Society" thread. Very, very soon there will be anti-abortion law in America, too. The right of women will be set back, I say fifty years.

I hope I am a false prophet, but I knew it would happen in Poland as soon as the comunist government fell, and it did.
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#7 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 05:49 AM

Madam- Thank you for that, I agree a hundred percent. I'm very much for women's rights and I'm sure that Bush has his agenda set against them (women and gays, I'm guessing he'll do something horrible to blacks next) However it just bothers the hell out of me that people can defend Bush's genocide in Iraq but then come out against him for something that, compared to the war, is trivial. I'm glad the rest of the world realizes that all life has meaning and importance. I think the only other culture that has exibited this callousness would be Victorian England. And I agree once more that it isn't just Bush, it's the vast majority of America that acts like this.

The soldiers at Abu Ghraib are a prime example. They get a slap on the wrist and nothing happens to the people that ordered them to do it. If it had been Americans they were torturing they'd probably all be serving consecutive life sentences. To tell the truth I view things very much the opposite of some people. I really don't get affected when US soldiers die because they made a choice to join the army and they made a choice to serve in an unjust war. Iraqi freedom fighters and civilians never had a choice.

I'm sorry for bringing this thread off topic and I am very much against the adoption of Christianity (or any religion) as our national religion. However I believe it was John Kerry who said that when the house is burning down you don't worry about repainting it. That's my advice. These trivial issues that only effect us here in America are NOTHING compared to what is being done in other countries by our government.

People, we're RESPONSIBLE for what these animals are doing. If the American public dosn't strive against this un-winnable war than we're guilty for every person who dies and september eleventh will repeat again. It is selfish to want people in our country to be able to worship freely while Iraqis who try to do the same thing are having their mosques blown to bloody bits because of our inaction. I say if we allow the Iraqis and Palestinians to be oppressed by our government that it is only justice that we should suffer with them. So, bring on the theocracy I'll be glad to help tear it down.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#8 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 06:42 AM

JM, when have I ever defended the war in Iraq? When? I've hated Bush for four years for everything he's done. But this is more serious than you seem to realize.

America, you know, the land of freedom, etc, was founded on the basis of freedom of speech, of the press, and of (and from) religion. The separation of Church and State is one of the keys to the government, take that away, and you lose the government.

And you know what, there have been unjust and unwinnable wars before Iraq. It is horrible how we went in there, but Iraq is not going to affect most of the world. Iran, North Korea, maybe, but not Iraq. Because Iraq had nothing and now has less. We'll be pulling out of there soon. The religion thing will open the door for many more people to be oppressed, persecuted, and killed, and is a much more serious issue. It has nothing to do with Americans being egocentric. It's just looking in a worldview and looking long term, religion will have more impact on the world.
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Posted 19 November 2004 - 07:53 AM

QUOTE
I really don't get affected when US soldiers die because they made a choice to join the army and they made a choice to serve in an unjust war. Iraqi freedom fighters and civilians never had a choice.


I agree with you. Those soldiers in Iraq, at least Americans, are volunteers. They may have been forced to join the army by various reasons, feeding their family is one of them. Polish soldiers also serve in Iraq (I am really ashamed of this, but this was the government decision and they are all lickarses who will eat shit just to please America) and they are also in theory volunteers, but it has been recently revealed that they were told “either you serve in Iraq, or you will not have a job with the army” Now, the guy who admitted to being blackmailed like that come from the garrison in the town where I work. Note, that unemployment in this area reaches 30% (no, I am not joking. That is why I mentioned in the other thread and I know I am lucky to have a job). In such circumstances, people chose to serve in Iraq.

But again – it is their own choice. That is why I really could not stand one bit of Farenheit 9/11, about that mother who at first was proud that her family all serve in the military, and then when her son was dead, went to blame Bush for that. Wrong! It is a professional risk, all soldiers can be killed and it has nothing to do with just Dubya!

America has always been doing it, dem or reps, sending soldiers to fight all over the world for various, mostly economic reason. I mean, let’s face it, war is all about money. It is such a boost for the economy, first you destroy, and they you have to rebuild, and who will do it if not American companies.

Our government also woke up with an egg on their face, because they had thought that if we supported America in Iraq, they would give us contracts in Iraq, or at least waive entrance visas to the States. Need I to say that not one of these things happen?

But I think you cannot compare internal affairs with fighting wars all over the world. They are two separate things. As an American, Vwing is naturally concerned with his rights as a citizen and freedom from religion in particular. And I sympathise, because I know what it can lead to, I know what religion can do to a nation!

Stopping America from killing people in Iraq is an entirely different problem. You cannot just say, oh, why should you worry about bible when people are being killed? It does not work like that. People work on different issues all the time. Could we say that preserving endangered species is not the thing to do when whole nations are dying? Yet people preserve whales, butterflies and beavers.

So I agree with the last post of Vwing.
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#10 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 08:20 AM

VWing- What got me was this statement

"In another thread I defended America, saying we're still a great country despite Bush, yada yada yada. I think I may rescind that statement now."

I ceased to defend America when they began this ruthless agression but I understand where you're coming from, America does have a lot of good things going but they're quickly eroding away and I think more people are going to start giving up on defending our government as this continues. I think that the Iraqi struggle for liberty is paralelled by that which many Americans must make and that they are an example for us all to follow in the US.

I'm sorry for being aggressive but I read too much into your post.

Madam- I agree it's good for people to address different causes and the US reverting to being a theocracy is certainly a distubing occurence. I suppose I aught to commend VWing for pointing this out.

The bible actually has been in our schools before. The US was founded as a Christian nation and freedom of religion should have read more like "freedom to choose what kind of church you haul your white slave owning ass into every sunday" however religion was a shorter term and I suppose they were low on ink and that little mistake has benefited us all greatly. However I have no doubt that this was the true meaning of that clause.

Of course you have to be aware of what kind of place America was at that time. It was run entirely by old rich white men (some things never change) and the people who didn't own plantations may as well have been slaves whether they were white or black. And which burning was perfectly legal. I'd rather not return to our country's roots if avoidable but sometimes things have to get worse before they get better and the darkest hour is always just before the dawn. I'd say we're headed for that hour right now and the dawn will not come until the triumph of the revolution.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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Posted 19 November 2004 - 12:02 PM

The reason why people don't yell about Iraq so much is that it isn't happening to them. It's standard human psychology to just push things out of the way and not look at them, and then stop caring. So what that we hear on the news about people being killed? It's thousands of miles away! But Bible thumping strikes much closer to home.

Speaking of Revelations, I once knew a Christian fundamentalist who interperated that JFK would rise from the grave as the anti-christ, or one of his relatives would become that figure... it was six years ago or so... Anywho, it was on the basis of a line in Revelations that mentions that the relative of one of the earlier kings would become the anti-christ. Bush certainly is looking like a much more suitable canidate, but I don't think Armageddon is coming soon, if ever. However, now I'm intrigued, and I'm going to read those passages again.

Although if the end draws nigh, I'm sure we'll have forum topics on the best ways to get the water out of your river of blood, and sixty ways to eliminate locusts.
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#12 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 08:33 PM

You people really hate christians!

I think all that back in the day stuff regarding seperation of church from state had to do with escaping catholic persectution.

This country at one point was predominatley Christian, protestants. God is waxed all over the place. And early schools did have bibles. So to say that it never happened is a lie.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 19 November 2004 - 08:38 PM

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#13 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 09:27 PM

Oy. Sorry for bad history lol.

Fine, we had religion, but do you want to go back to what we were in 1800? And though I'm sure prayer was in schools even in the mid 20th century, religion had been getting phased out, and people were starting to side with state rather than church. Yeah, we've had bibles in schools, but for the most part, there has been freedom from religion in the country, especially in the last century (which to me, as a teenager, means never smile.gif).

My only hope here is that it's just a way of balancing out the universe. We basically reached our pro-state extreme in the 60s, and since then have been gradually going back to religion. Maybe with Bush it'll reach it's back and go back in the other direction. My worry is that religion is much more ingrained in people than reason, and it may take much longer to get us back on the right track.
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#14 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 10:37 PM

Jordan- Ummm I don't think it's a matter of hating Christianity as much as it is about hating the lack of choice that will be brought about by making it the state religion.

VWing- I posted about how things were when the US was basically a theocracy and it wasn't pretty. I don't want things to be like that again but like I said sometimes things get worse before they get better.

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
- Deucaon toes a hard line on gay fetus rights.
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#15 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 02:58 AM

I was being sarcastic. I thought the "!" would make that obvious. But nad.

I too think Christianity should be seperated from government. I don't think that's part of the plan according to the bible even.

This country is to diverse now for it to work. Back in the day, sure. But now it would be a lost cause.
Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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