[Lord Aquaman]

Post all your "Troy" thoughts here.

1) Brad Pitt as Achilles - thought he was a bit of a mixed bag in this role. I admired the zesty recklessness of his work in "Fight Club" but I don't think that automatically qualifies him to play a mythological character. I always pictured Achilles as more rugged, someone whose every movement implies that he IS a force of nature (not unlike a tornado or a tsunami). Brad Pitt, for all his working out, didn't quite capture this "Force of nature" feeling that I had long attributed to Achilles. He wasn't terrible, he's clearly trying his hardest in some scenes but he was a mixed bag at best for me. Granted, he had some REALLY OVER SIMPLIFIED LINES to say.

2) Eric Bana as Hector - like so many others, I came away rooting for Eric Bana in the Hector role more than anyone else. To be honest, Eric Bana's appearance is more how I saw Achilles - bigger, more rugged, more outdoorsman looking. He plays the Hector role well, as well as any other reluctant hero who ever graced the silver screen.

3) Orlando Bloom as Paris - essentially this is Bloom's anti-Legolas role, despite picking up the bow & arrow to avenge Eric Bana's death at the hands of Brad Pitt. Ironically, he plays it like a wimpy version of Legolas; I almost laughed when he started scampering away from Brendan Gleeson and crawled up and clutched Eric Bana's leg, as if to say "Save me, Eric Bana, save me! And by the way, have you been working out? 'Cause your quads, man..."

4) Peter O'Toole as Priam - yet another revered actor going through the motions of the grandpa role, but he goes through them well. He really outshines Pitt when he comes to beg for his son's body.

5) Brian Cox as Agamemnon - Agamemnon was never a nice guy, but I kind of felt like they were going out of their way to make him 'the villain'.

6) Brendan Gleeson as Menelauos (spelled wrong) - basically playing a middle-aged thug; could have done with more sympathy.

7) Sean Bean as Odysseus - good but underused.

8) Diane Kruger as Helen - I'm not gonna debate looks here; I thought her overall performance was strictly OKAY, though I found myself liking Saffron Burrow's as Hector's wife more.

[Vwing]

Well I disagree about Brad Pitt. For me he wasn't a mixed bag. For me, he nearly ruined the movie with one of the worst performances I've seen in a while. I don't think there was one scene where he actually had to talk where I didn't cringe. It's hard to believe an actor I like that much could give such a god-awful performance.

I basically agree with you about everyone else. I loved Eric Bana, I really liked Sean Bean though he was underused (hey, at least he stayed alive!), and Brian Cox did seem a bit too villainous. However, I think Peter O' Toole did more than going through the motions, I thought he gave a very good performance, and I thought Bloom was also just what he had to be. Kruger was a non-entity for me, as was Menelaus.

As far as the overall movie goes, other than Pitt's Achilles, I really enjoyed it. The fight scene between Hector and Achilles was very intense, and the large-scale battles were how LOTR should've done its battles in ROTK. It gave you a great feeling of the epic nature of the battle while never taking you away from the characters you cared about. And the story was actually pretty well-handled too, even though the time frame was a bit screwy. But all-in-all, a very well-done movie that somehow managed to still entertain despite Brad Pitt.

[civilian_number_two]

I still think it's odd that folks who were suppose to live died, and some that were supposed to die lived, and that basically everyone's end apart from Hector's played out differently than it did in the poem. It was like telling the story of Jesus and Jesus ends up crucifying Peter, and then Peter rises from the dead and starts selling doughnuts.

Anyway, the action scenes were great. I would buy the DVD just for the Hector/Achilles fight on its own.

[SimeSublime]

It was like telling the story of Jesus and Jesus ends up crucifying Peter, and then Peter rises from the dead and starts selling doughnuts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know what, Civ? You have some of the best metaphores I've ever seen. Congrats.



In other news, I really liked Eric Bana's portrayal of Hector. He's come so far from the days of "Poida".

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah, "Poida." Yeah, that's right, guys. Sime, Barend, Supes and myself got to watch this guy's rise to stardom from his most humble beginnings doing sketch comedy on television in the eighties. Eric, we're proud of you, mate.

Eric did a great job with Hector, portraying one of the only likeable characters in the whole film. Peter O'toole did a great job as well.

And Brad Pitt... er, in his defense, he wasn't given much to go with. However, I think as an actor, he has a responsibility to make suggestions where they are needed.

I think the way Achilles was portrayed in the film was completely unsympathetic. He was basically an arrogant asshole. And that would be fine, except he was supposed to be one of the main focal points for the audience. We were supposed to be barracking for this guy at some stages throughout the movie ~ although obviously not when he was fighting Hector.

And this brings us to the most problematic part of making Achilles one of the main focal points. He kills the most sympathetic character in the story ~ the guy we were barracking for the most. Now, there's no way around this. Whether they portrayed Achilles as a character with SOME emotional depth or as an emotionally stunted asshole, he still had to kill Hector.

Now, the movie tried to address this by making Achilles shed a small tear in lament for what he had done. But I think more was needed. If we are to care about Achilles, if he is to be a sympathetic character, then I think a torrential outpouring of grief was required here. Then he would seem more like a noble man who did something terrible in a fit of passion, rather than a prick who felt just a tad sorry that he murdered a better man.

5) Brian Cox as Agamemnon - Agamemnon was never a nice guy, but I kind of felt like they were going out of their way to make him 'the villain'.

Oh, he was just unbelievably over the top. It was shameless. I cringe whenever I read a review that praises his performance in this movie. It was terrible.

People complain about Brad Pitt's portrayal of Achilles... but Brian Cox's Agamemmon is far worse (although admittedly, this is not entirely Mr Cox's fault).


Diane Kruger was passable. But while she was attractive, I didn't think she had "the face that launched a thousand ships".


Sean Bean was great as always. And although he was underused, it was nice for a change to see him still alive at the end of the movie.


My last comment on Troy would be a grievance I had with the end. They had these scenes before the sacking of Troy where Achilles and Odyseus learned the error of their ways. They realised what a waste of lives this war was and how pointless it was. They saw that they had killed good men and that this was all wrong. Good people on both sides were dying for nothing, save for the greed of the filthy Agamemmon. They saw the light at last and did the all "Oh, woe is me! What have we done?"

and then...

they went ahead and sacked Troy anyway!

It was unbelievable.

Oh, woe is me! We are just killing good men! These Trojans are not our enemies. They are good people, just like us! Oh, why all this bloodshed? Why are we all killing each other just for the sake of the asshole Agamemmon? We should stop these pointless massacres and be friends...

however, we've already started this war though, haven't we? I guess we may as well finish it then. BURN THE CITY!


Again, the sacking of Troy is something that has to take place. Otherwise the movie would REALLY be departing from the source material. So how do we address this problem?

Well, my advice would be to have our characters see the light AFTER they commit this heinous crime. It's easy. Achilles can have a flash of insight as he lies dying and maybe he can tell Paris how sorry he is for killing his brother (Hollywoodesque, I know. But better than it was). And Odyseus can suddenly look horrified as he sees the Greek soldiers killing all the innocent Trojans and burning the city and do the whole "My God! What have I done?"


... and then we'll kick off into the chorus of Once in a Lifetime by Talking Heads.

[Jordan]

For any of you Classic Greek/Roman buffs out there. I highly recommend Rome Total War, a RTS game for PC.
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I too noticed the drastic changes in Troy (the Gods not being there was also a big change) But I still liked the film nonetheless. Civ is right, the battle between Hector and Achilles was excellent. No CG, No flying, Just pure believable hand to hand combat.

The reason I loved the movie so much because I could never pick one side and root for them. I hated Achilles at first, them liked him, then hated him, then liked him. The only character that I hated was Paris. That guy did nothing right. First he gave the greeks an excuse to attack Troy, then he shamed the Trojans after losing the 1 on 1 fight, then he killed Achilles after I started liking him again.

[Lord Aquaman]

The epic battles were well done, but I thought Achilles and Hector danced around too much during their big "climatic clash". But that's just me.

[Just your average movie goer]

I don't know. If you were fighting for your life one and one with a very dangerous opponent, you'd probably dance around too.

[Lord Aquaman]

Should we start debating who should have played Achilles instead of Brad Pitt? I nominate Karl "Eomer" Urban and Daniel Cudmore (Colossus from "X-Men 2").

[barend]

i liked it... no two ways about it...
i think orlando blooms head moved around too much while talking to helen at the begening... and some lines were too simple... Brian Cox was great, but still a little american sounding...

i thought the historical angle was an ineresting one to take...
however...
i would really have loved to see a more mythilogical/fantasy version...

ADDITIONAL: rose byrne looks beautiful with dark hair...

[Lord Aquaman]

Brian Cox is British, isn't he?

I'm pretty sure Rose Byrne has naturally dark hair. If you ever bother to subject yourself to the horror of Star Wars Episode 2: AOTC, you can see her very briefly as one of Natalie Portman's escorts [possibly the double who gets blown to bits in the opening].

[barend]

irish, borne in scottland....

still sounded a little american too me...

[Just your average movie goer]

I'm pretty sure Rose Byrne has naturally dark hair. If you ever bother to subject yourself to the horror of Star Wars Episode 2: AOTC, you can see her very briefly as one of Natalie Portman's escorts [possibly the double who gets blown to bits in the opening].

Or rather, if you live in Australia, rent Two Hands and see her in that. I am sorry that our Australian distributors suck and never put good Australian movies on DVD or try to (heaven forbid) MARKET them. But that's the sad fact. Two Hands won't ever be seen by overseas audiences, even though they'd probably love it.

However, if you're in Australia, SEE this movie if you get a chance. And also, if you get a chance, see Hercules Returns, the funniest movie ever made.

[Jordan]

The Aussie fad hit the US in the late 80's to early 90's. Sorry JYAMG, you missed the boat.

However, the recent surge in Aussie/Kiwi actors is MASSIVE. Go take an acting class or two and maybe we'll see you on the silver screen.

----

Do Aussie's and Kiwi's not like being mixed up? I often can't tell the difference between the two accents. I know a BEAUTIFUL girl from New Zealand. Her accent is very smooth and mild. She's so damn hot, but is also very very 15. Aside from being really young she also moved back to NZ so my chances are now 0%

[SimeSublime]

Well, Kiwi's and Aussies like being mixed up about as much as Canadians and Americans, or Brits and Scottsmen.

And our accents are very different. For example, we can say vowels.