[Helena]

There's a couple of small things in the OT that I've been wondering about for a while, because I really don't see any sensible explanation for them. I've no doubt that Lucas will simply ignore them in RotS, but I thought I'd post them here as a challenge to see who can come up with a good explanation.

1. Why has everyone forgotten what the Force is in the 20 or so years since the fall of the Republic? Admiral Motti scornfully describes it as 'that ancient religion', and Han Solo doesn't even believe it exists at first. Now Han's attitude is just about understandable if the Jedi purge happened when he was very young, but surely Motti should remember the Jedi? They were around until the very end of the Republic (even discounting the PT, we know this because Vader helped the Empire hunt them down), and they clearly played an important part in the Clone Wars, so anyone over the age of 30 should be perfectly aware of who they were and what they did.

2. Obi-Wan tells Luke that he's been known as Ben since 'before you were born.' Now I can understand why he might want to change his name when he retired to Tatooine, but why would he do it before the birth of Luke and Leia? And if his intent was to conceal hís true identity, surely you'd expect him to have changed his surname as well?

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Good questions, Helena

2. Obi-Wan tells Luke that he's been known as Ben since 'before you were born.' Now I can understand why he might want to change his name when he retired to Tatooine, but why would he do it before the birth of Luke and Leia? And if his intent was to conceal hís true identity, surely you'd expect him to have changed his surname as well?

Your right in reality it doesn;t make sense. A person in the witness protection program doesn't change his name by still keeping hi surname.

The answer to why Kenobi keeps his surname is a "movie" answer.

For the purposes of driving the plot....If Kenobi took a name that was radically different than Kenobi. Say he called himself "Ben Jones" it prevents Luke and the audience from making the connection between Obi-Wan and Ben Kenobi.

You see, if C-3Po says "he claims to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kenobi." Now, Luke wouldn't say "Hmmm, Obi-Wan Kenobi, I wonder if he could be talking about old Ben Jones?"

You see! He wouldn;t make that connection! Which means he wouldn;t be hell bent on returning the droid to Ben or asking his parents about Ben and his father

By using the same surname Kenobi, it creates a much easier transition for the plot.

Just a little "shop talk" there, Helena !!!

1. Why has everyone forgotten what the Force is in the 20 or so years since the fall of the Republic? Admiral Motti scornfully describes it as 'that ancient religion', and Han Solo doesn't even believe it exists at first. Now Han's attitude is just about understandable if the Jedi purge happened when he was very young, but surely Motti should remember the Jedi? They were around until the very end of the Republic (even discounting the PT, we know this because Vader helped the Empire hunt them down), and they clearly played an important part in the Clone Wars, so anyone over the age of 30 should be perfectly aware of who they were and what they did.

Again, something else that doesn;t make sese in the real world. But for purposes of making the movie work it is acceptable.


The timeline of Star Wars is always going to be a little askew.

In truth the Jedi Knights should be more recent in the memories of the Imperials.

If you movies were based on accuracy then it would be a huge blunder.

But what is more important than some "time line" is the meaning behind the scene.

The point of that scene was to illustrate

-the skepticism and arrogance of Motti as well as his underestimation of Vader.

- that the world that the Imperials are living in isdifferent from the days of the Jedi Knights

-that the ways of the Jedi Knights have died out.

As long as those points are clarified, does it really matter whether it;s 20 years or 20,000 yearrs between the Imperial Empire and the Jedi knights reign.

[Just your average movie goer]

For a change, I'm going to agree 100% with what Mike said.

It feels... um... different.

[Michel Orla]

I was always under the belief Obi Wan was the sort of Jedi name Ben Kenobi used. Once he started living on Tatooine in hiding he was no longer considered a Jedi so he just went back to Ben. The bigger mystery is why he wouldn't change his name if he was in hiding.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

For a change, I'm going to agree 100% with what Mike said.

It feels... um... different. 

I feel like I don't know you anymore, jyamg!!!

[Paladin]

Well, I usually see it Mike's way... normally because it usually makes sense!

[J m HofMarN]

Obi Wan probably wasn't being hunted too terribly well and he obviously wasn't very worried about being killed anyhow. He probably kept the last name to help Luke find him when the time came.

And does anyone consider it odd that R2 indeed did NOT belong to Ben Kenobi in any way whatsoever? And just how does Leiah gain knowledge of Obi Wan's existence anyhow? "Years ago you fought for my father in the clone wars"

Obi Wan wasn't a generally and he didn't do anything at all distinguished so far. So why would Leiah remember him at all since it's pretty likely they've never met and Obi Wan never seems to have been close with her foster-father.

This scene made sense when it was only the OT because we could guess that he really had known her father. Now the PT has ruined that. Here's how the scene should be rewritten to fit the Prequels.

"Obi Wan Kenobi, who was perhaps a corporal at best. Years ago you blew up some droids. My father once used your name to win a game of scrabble. Based upon this I'm assuming that you're alive, on Tatooine and able to help me in some way. Also for some reason you're our only hope except for Yoda but I don't know about him even though he was probably on the same ship leaving Corruscant that we were. Since you've proven to be completely incapable of preventing Death Star plans from being flown around on silly space sail boats I'm hoping you can use this skill to fly the death star plans to my friends, preferably without getting any pillars dropped on you."

This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 28 October 2004 - 07:17 PM

[ernesttomlinson]

"1. Why has everyone forgotten what the Force is in the 20 or so years since the fall of the Republic?"

It's Isaac Asimov's fault. Really. In Foundation, probably the great grand-daddy of any number of Galactic Empire stories, fifty or so years suffices to make everyone on the galactic rim forget that nuclear power existed so that, when the Foundation reintroduces it, they can pass it off as magic. Since then, advanced civilizations have relapsed into ignorant, superstitious barbarism with remarkable speed. The sudden forgetfulness of the "more civilized age" of the Republic in Star Wars is very much the same.

I think that the prequels would have made much more sense if they began with the premise that Obi-Wan was a lot older than he looked (cf. Yoda's nine hundred years) and thus that the days of the Republic and the Jedi were, indeed, a fading memory. Er, but then there's the matter of Leia's father's having known Obi-Wan.

[J m HofMarN]

Ernest- As I pointed out Obi Wan didn't know Leiah's father in the PT. Nor was he a general.