[Just your average movie goer]

Hey everyone. Do you have some movie cliches that you particularly hate and think should be banned from any future films? Post them here.

I've got a couple of my own to start the thread off.


The character who keeps coming back from the dead.

Unless it's Gandalf or a similarly high-ranking wizard, Highlander or other immortal type, I prefer it if characters who die stay dead. It irritates me to no end to see the guy who keeps on being blown up, dropped from great heights, thrown in front of trains etc... coming back again and again. It's one of the things I hate about Con Air so much. That villain was killed off about four or five times but kept coming back over and over again, going "Hahaha... you thought you saw the last of me, hey?" It's annoying. It's like having some tag-along guy who thinks you're his buddy. You keep trying to ditch him but he keeps showing up at your parties and inviting you to his own.



Multiple double-crosses.

There is a limit to how many double-crosses a movie can have. That limit is one. Seeing the character who switches sides ten times in the same movie is extremely irritating. It turns the movie's plot into a broken record that keeps repeating itself, making the whole film feel like a bad deja vu experience. And I always wonder why other characters put up with this stuff so much. I wouldn't.

Double crossing bastard - Hahahaha. I'm with the bad guys.

Me - You fucking bastard.

Double crossing bastard (later) - Wow. I was just playing them. See, now that you've escaped, I can tell you that. I was playing them all along. I'm really on your side.

Me (shooting him) - Bullshit.




Okay. Over to you guys.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

A couple

1. The Good guys always win

-In Star Wars and Indiana Jones, yes the good guys must win. But just once I would like to see an adventure movie that has the bad guys actually come ahead.

2. The monster that keeps coming back.

-Enough with Jason, Freddy and Mike Meyers coming back, already please!!!!

3. Stupid action star retorts

-You know "Ill be back", "Make my day" , "I'm your worst nightmare"

4. Unrealistic people

-As I am sure you guys realize, not everyone in the world is built like a supermodel or has perfect hair. Would like to see some more :average looking" people in movies.

5. The comic relief

-About half the time they are neither comic nor a relief!!!

[Michel Orla]

Especially in teen movies. Boys say they are better than girls at something. Girls challenege the boys to a contest. Girls ALWAYS win. For once I'd like to see the antagonists come up on top

[Just your average movie goer]

Oooooo .... I HATE that. I'm with you on that one, mate.

Good list so far, guys. Here's another one -

Cool guy, tough dialogue that nobody utters in real-life.

This is that kind of crap that screenwriters think is terribly witty and cool-sounding. No doubt they wet themselves with excitement over these one-liners as they write them. But the problem is NOBODY says these things. The best example that comes to mind is "Your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash!" from Top Gun. That is just a terribly embarrassing line, that seems more ridiculous as time goes by. And you can see how easy it was to parody it in Hot Shots. They just said the line without changing a word... and then left us with a beautiful little pause, during which we could contemplate just how stupid it was. Kudos to Hot Shots, and an embarrassed head shake in the direction of Top Gun.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Cool guy, tough dialogue that nobody utters in real-life.

I think I kind of mentioned that one in my list. But I think your entry is a little bit more to the point.


Regarding Top Gun, jyamg.

What are your thoughts on that movie?

Maybe we should open up a thread on Top Gun??

What do you think????

[Just your average movie goer]

That would be an interesting one. I wonder whether we'd be in agreement on this one or not... but I see it as a rather cheesy over-rated film. It cannot disguise its 80s origins and seems to date more and more with age. It is also FULL of dialogue such as the example I gave above.

It'd also be interesting to see what other people think. And I'm pretty certain that everybody who's ever watched a film has seen Top Gun.

[Michel Orla]

Top Gun was great to watch in the 80's, but the movie has aged badly. I bought it on DVD and have only watched about the first ten minutes. And if you ever uttered that line "Your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash" to anyone, I doubt you'd have any friends left

[civilian_number_two]

You want the "good guys" to lose? I think you guys are lying. I think if there were a really good movie out there where the good guys lost, and it wasn't historically necessary that they do (SPARTACUS, BRAVEHEART, ZULU, CATS AND DOGS), you'd be a little bummed out at the end and wouldn't probably watch the movies over and over again.

Anyway, there's lots of movies where the "good guys" lose. All the same, protagonist voctory isn't so much a cliche as a storytelling standard: next you'll be saying you're tired of that cliche of the "linear narrative" and "characters" and "dialogue."


All right; I'll stop bitching:

1) The random supervillain: When you meet the monster alone, he's brutal and tough. This is a standard. Oh no! This is a super-vampire! They'll never kill it! Long challenging fight later, it dies, and our heroes are breathless and sweaty. However ANY TIME they are required to face dozens of the things, the monsters each die with a single blow. Like the one alone was a supervillain.

2) Niggas: I don't know if this bothers you, but all black men and women in da flicks is hip-hoppin' street folk. I know black people; granted, I live in Canada, but the only people I know talk like the blacks in da movees are white boys and, unpredictably, Chinese.

3) Embarrassingly beautiful smart women: YES. I know women who could curl your toes with a look before delivering a dissertation on Cardinal spaces and topological representations of bimodal logics. Well, all right; I know one. But not all brainy women are beautiful, any more than all good-looking guys are dumb but think they're smart in a comical way so they can look stupid around these women.

4) Embarrasingly Dorky smart women: YES, I know these gals too. But can we find a middle ground?

5) Saving the WORLD. The ENTIRE WORLD.

6) Prophecies.

7) Ancient artifacts.

8) Movies made from Urban Legends (NATIONAL TREASURE, SAW) or philosophy questions we talked about at sophomore parties (BIRTH, THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT, DARK CITY, THE MATRIX).

9) Groups of mismatched kids who have to team up to deal with cliched scenarios that will change their lives forever, usually involving getting laid, getting into college, or cheating on their SATs.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

2) Niggas: I don't know if this bothers you, but all black men and women in da flicks is hip-hoppin' street folk. I know black people; granted, I live in Canada, but the only people I know talk like the blacks in da movees are white boys and, unpredictably, Chinese.

I think this is a problem that was major a while back. Like 10 years ago.

But I think as of today, black people are being potrayed a WHOLE lot better in TV and in films.

-But on the otherhand..........it's also a crime to falsely potray black people as "Cosby Show' types.

Being a New Yorker, I know that "black youths" do indeed talk like that a fair amount of time.

"yknow what I'm saying" "Keep it real"

But if you see older black people on TV, they do not talk hip hop slang.They talk in they most african-americans do.

You also have to consider that a vast majority of youth culture today is based on the "hip hop" culture that was pioneered it music.

Another point in case is Sean Puff Daddy Combs, someone who I actually met at Hunter College once.

He speaks exactly in that type of manner you mentioned. It;s his real speaking voice. But, talking to him you actually find out that he is intelligent, very savvy individual.

BTW, do all Canadians say "aye" at the end of every sentence likle they always potray in the movies. Are all you those guys fishing guides and mounties!!!

I think you bring up a very huge problem in movies, which is the potrayal of minorities.

You walk a fine line between stereotyping and "unrealtis potrayals" of a minority.

Specially with Asian characters.

For example , say your making a movie about an Indian family in Brooklyn.

You show them as running a convenience store and show some of the makes as being bearded with the turbans.

Sounds like a stereotype.

But.......in Brooklyn.....you walk into any given convenience store and you usually do find them in convenience stores.

I guess you could make them running an insurance agency.......but it would be an even greater insult to the actually reality of those Indian families living in Brooklyn.

It;s a fine line to walk, civ.

This post has been edited by Mike Mac from NYU: 29 October 2004 - 12:48 PM

[Mike Mac from NYU]

9) Groups of mismatched kids who have to team up to deal with cliched scenarios that will change their lives forever, usually involving getting laid, getting into college, or cheating on their SATs.

I think you just destroyed a whole genre of filmmaking with that statement.

5) Saving the WORLD. The ENTIRE WORLD.

I think that cliche is already on it's way out for the most part.

4) Embarrasingly Dorky smart women: YES, I know these gals too. But can we find a middle ground?

I think a bigger problem is embarisingly dorky DUMB men, more than anything.

[Laura]

But.......in Brooklyn.....you walk into any given convenience store and you usually do find them in convenience stores.

I guess you could make them running an insurance agency.......but it would be an even greater insult to the actually reality of those Indian families living in Brooklyn.

Really? I don't think that's insulting, for the following reasons:

1) There certainly are Indians in the insurance biz,
2) By portraying an Indian family who's not running a convenience store, you're not denying that SOME Indians do run convenience stores,
3) Movies are about different things. Each character doesn't need to reflect the "typical" job placement of his or her demographic, be it ethnicity, race, sex, age, etc. There's no need for movies to be firmly grounded in reality, even assuming that stereotypes are on the whole true (which I don't admit for a second).

Stereotypes may certainly have some basis in reality, but that doesn't mean that exceptions don't exist. In fact, I'd posit that there are more exceptions than there are stereotype-consistent individuals.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

Really? I don't think that's insulting, for the following reasons:

1) There certainly are Indians in the insurance biz,
2) By portraying an Indian family who's not running a convenience store, you're not denying that SOME Indians do run convenience stores,
3) Movies are about different things. Each character doesn't need to reflect the "typical" job placement of his or her demographic, be it ethnicity, race, sex, age, etc. There's no need for movies to be firmly grounded in reality, even assuming that stereotypes are on the whole true (which I don't admit for a second).

Stereotypes may certainly have some basis in reality, but that doesn't mean that exceptions don't exist. In fact, I'd posit that there are more exceptions than there are stereotype-consistent individuals.

Oh, I agree, Laura.

I personally have no problems with that.

But in our "PC-crazy" world. Such issues always become a problem in moviemaking.

[Despondent]

Here's another chance to metion "Mississippi Masala" with Denzel Washington.

Black carpet cleaner gets romantic with Indian girl (whose family runs a motel) in Race-torn deep south.

And my friend Ben plays the Bigoted Banker. (His kids appear in the banker's office picture frames.) "Bob" has the best line in the film.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

And my friend Ben plays the Bigoted Banker. (His kids appear in the banker's office picture frames.) "Bob" has the best line in the film.

Really? That was a great job, by your friend. Nice role.

Mississippi Masala was a great movie.

[civilian_number_two]

I agree, it's a fine line.

Just saying, is all. Tired of it. The little nerd kid with the bright ideas is Jewish; the little smart-talking constantly horny yet ultimately sexless sidekick is a nigga.

And yeah, I agree things are way better on TV: THE WEST WING, which has hurt me very much this week, grr.. has some of the best roles for women and black men currently on television. But in the movees, not as much.

And yeah, we all say "eh," and "hoser," and we drink beer from stubby bottles. In Ontario. In the 80s.

10) In case you all thought noone did this anymore, two seasons ago THE WEST WING ended with Mark Harmon getting shot after briefly becoming interested in CJ. SO: bit parts for famous actors where said actors predictably die at the end of their visit.