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The Ewoks in defense of the little bastards!!!!!

#31 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 28 October 2004 - 08:44 PM

A few comments: Vwing, I can't back up my statement without heavy research. So I'll waffle and say "Any comparison of STAR WARS with ancient myth is pretentious. So if Lucas did it even once out of 1000 interviews, he'a a crock." Sorry; that's all I got. So I think you won that one. :angry:

Comments about the military position of the Ewoks, the inevitability of their victory over the Imperial elite guard: This has to be someone joking. Sure, maybe, if the Imperials are travelling, and they have to move through hostile territory, but these guys are defending a fortified bunker. Have you seen ZULU? Fiction, yes, by there is HISTORY behind it. Do you know what happened when Boudica went up againt Paulinnus, and had him outnumbered more than 10 to 1?

I would like to see Easy Company, from BAND OF BROTHERS, defend that station against those Ewoks. You would have seen communication and skilled use of weaponry. You'd have seen troops advancing under a base of covering fire. You would NOT see individual soldiers running around like scared ducks while the savage bushmen cut them down one at a time. You would have seen a battle worthy of the final chapter of a series of WAR films. And YES, if it had been handled that way, and the Ewoks had credibly won regardless, I would be singing the praises of that sequence, and reserving my criticisms of ROTJ to Boba's death, the whole Jabba sequence, Luke vs Vader, Yoda's death, and Luke and Leia being siblings. And the resolution of the "another" cock-tease.

All this about the Ewok motivation: Sure, it's a given that Imperial troops would have shot at some of the Ewoks. They would have wanted at least to scare them off. But this business about it being good for the trees: that is NOT established. The Imperials cleared as little as they had to to build that shield generator. The Ewoks would not have been shocked or angry about that little hut; even GREENPEACE fanatics would not have found anything there to anger them. I haven't seen the movie in a long time, mind you, but I do recall a lot of trees, and no great big clearings. MAYBE, they're pumping out toxic waste, but now we're getting into territory not once touched in the STAR WARS series, and frankly a childish argument about environmentalism, if that's what it was.

So, yeah, I have no major criticisms about Ewoks per se, but I don't like how they were used, and they are NOT Dwarves.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 28 October 2004 - 08:46 PM

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#32 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 28 October 2004 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Oct 28 2004, 08:44 PM)
A few comments: Vwing, I can't back up my statement without heavy research. So I'll waffle and say "Any comparison of STAR WARS with ancient myth is pretentious. So if Lucas did it even once out of 1000 interviews, he'a a crock." Sorry; that's all I got. So I think you won that one. :angry:

First time for everything smile.gif

Oh and Mike, though overall I agree with you, on this one issue I'm gonna have to go with Civ. I've watched ROTJ countless times, and not once did it occur to me that the Ewoks joined because their forests were being destroyed or damaged to any noticeable extent by the Empire. This is not mentioned or implied in any way, shape, or form in the movie. I've always just thought they joined because they thought 3P0 was a God, though I do agree that it is pretty obvious after hearing 3P0 tell the rebellion's story that this more than anything convinces them. But I don't think that any of the stuff in the novelization or original script really applies, because too much was cut in the actual movie for the average movie goer (heh) to think that was part of their motivation.
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#33 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 01:42 AM

The huge advantage the Ewoks had {and the rebel troops had this advantage as well}





........was camoflauge

The Ewoks are perfectly camoflauged for forest survival and warefare {as they should be}

The Imperial stormtroopers in their white armor, stick out light a candle in the night against the


Trying to shoot an Ewok in the Endor Forest is just as hard as a hunter trying to shoot a wolf in the woods.

Add to the fact that there

1. there could be as much as a 20:1 ratio between Ewoks to Imperial Soldiers
2. People also forget that the Ewoks are just as skilled, maybe even more skilled at fighting than the Imperials since the Ewoks probably fight every day just to survive and hunt large game.
3. Having the help of a few rebel soldiers as help.
4. Element, of surprise,


There's a question in one of the Westpoint strategy manuals that asks

"Who would win? 15 cavemen armed with clubs or 5 men armed with automatic pistols?

The answer the instructors always give is the cavemen.

This answer leads into this concept that in hand to hand combat and tactical ground warefare, technology means absolutely nothing.

Sheer numbers, skill and knowledge of your terrain are what win the battle.

Having a pistol against a guy with a knife means nothing, because if the guy with the knife is better skilled than you are with the gun and he knows the terrain, he'll kill you.
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#34 User is offline   Mike Mac from NYU Icon

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 02:04 AM

To V-Wing

QUOTE
I've always just thought they joined because they thought 3P0 was a God, though I do agree that it is pretty obvious after hearing 3P0 tell the rebellion's story that this more than anything convinces them.


I disagree.

Because it seemed that the Ewoks had gotten past the 3PO is a god thing by the time 3PO was telling the story.

It seemed to me they were treating him less like a diety and more like they treated Han, Leia, Luke and etc.

It is stated in the movie that the Ewoks made the rebels 'honorary members" of the tribe which was the last part of the scene in the novelization that I had mentioned.

The scene I stated about the "saving the trees' would have been in the movie, but it got cut out for the very obvious and right reason in that it was an unecessary scene.

Instead of eating up 8 minutes of screen time with Luke, Leia and Han trying to make their case to Ewoks why they should fight. Just simply have 3PO tell his story, have scene of Ewok elders talking and then have the 3PO anounce that they have become "Tribemembers"

You condense the scene and have everything applied or assumed by the viewer that their was this discussion on the joining the fight.

If the viewer gets it, he gets it. If not, too bad. You move on to more important scenes.

You only have so much screen time, that some things have to be implied or assumed by the viewer. Movies don;t have the benefits of books in terms of exposition.
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#35 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 06:08 PM

QUOTE (Mike Mac from NYU @ Oct 27 2004, 12:26 PM)
Hello All.

First some apologies.

Apologies to JYAMG & civilian two for any profane comments or insults I may have levied against them a month back { Jesus, I sound like a lawyer for Jacoby &  Meyers!!! dry.gif }

But I really appreciate the time and arguments and views we share on this site.

I was in a very depressed state a few months back with not only the loss of a not one but two people. but also a  sort of a "professional disappointment" that made me question pursuing a career in film. Just made me doubt my insticts a little. It's difficult for me to talk about it . I guess I was just a litte to ambitious...... I dunno.... dry.gif

Well enoght of that. Good to be back. Although my appearances on this forum will be much more sparse as things get a little hectic as of late.

Now all that being said. My first topic as you can tell is gonna be a controversial one!!!!!!

The Ewoks!

Yes those fuzzy, cute little brown bastards you guys love to loathe. smile.gif

Upon thinking about whether you guys are right about the Ewoks.......it sorta dawned on me.

                "The Ewoks are the "Star Wars" equivalents of dwarves"

I won;t explain this thought but I will rather give you guys some questions here.....

1. Why are there dwarves, hobbits, gnomes, and in literature at all?
2. What purpose do they serve?
3. Would Frodo, Samwise's characters in LOTR change if they were regular sized humans???

Please no punches pulled. Let me know what you guys think!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It probably all harkens back to the story of Davd & Goliath - little man-boy David brings down NBA sized giant Goliath with one well placed rock between the eyes. So they throw in the little guys to recreate that effect: there's no way the little guy can thwart the bigger guy, but somehow he does.

If it had been an army of wild wookies & escaped slave wookies coming to the rescue of Han Solo, Leia, Chewie and the Rebels in ROTJ, there would have been no doubt whatsoever that the wookies were gonna beat the living crap out of the Imperial Stormtroopers and officers. Granted we knew from the get go the little Ewoks would win, but apparently we're supposed to believe that there's room for doubt since they're so small.

Still, the wookies would have worked better. The ewoks could have waited to make their debut until those two TV movies (which, I'm ashamed to admit, I used to watch), and yet without ROTJ they probably never would have gotten those TV movies. And odds are Warwick Davis, who played Wickett, would not have gotten to star in "Willow".
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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