Exactly, the Empire should be seen polluting and destroying the moon somehow, and then have Luke or Leia somehow organize/harness the beasts/nature to repel the invaders. Very much a Jedi thing to do. It could have been so epic... (Ents taking Isengard apart.) I always liked the worm-riding Fremen assault on Dune, it's a similar idea I suppose.
The Ewoks in defense of the little bastards!!!!!
#16
Posted 28 October 2004 - 08:31 AM
Exactly, the Empire should be seen polluting and destroying the moon somehow, and then have Luke or Leia somehow organize/harness the beasts/nature to repel the invaders. Very much a Jedi thing to do. It could have been so epic... (Ents taking Isengard apart.) I always liked the worm-riding Fremen assault on Dune, it's a similar idea I suppose.
#17
Posted 28 October 2004 - 09:49 AM
But wouldn' that happen even if he used Wookies?
Instead of little Ewok action figures, he would have these Wookie action figures complete with the "Kung Fu" grip.
If Lucas was marketting the Ewoks specifically, it was probably bad marketing since a majority of the people that buy Star Wars action figures are male boys and they would be more apt to buy cool looking Wookie warriors than little cute Ewoks.
This post has been edited by Mike Mac from NYU: 28 October 2004 - 09:53 AM
#18
Posted 28 October 2004 - 09:56 AM
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#19
Posted 28 October 2004 - 10:10 AM
Three points on this
1. While not stated in the movie or screenplay. It is implied that the Imperials had killed scores of Ewoks when they were in the process as setting up the shield generator. They killed them much in the same way frontier farmers killed wolves, and coyotes who they thought were a nuisance or threat to their land, even if those animals were doing nothing.
2. In the novelization of ROTJ, there is a scene where after Threepio recounts the story to the Ewoks, the Ewok elders are deiscusing and arguing why the should help the rebels. Han, Leia and Luke all make arguments, that the elders rebuke. Finally Leia says they should do it to protect the trees from being destroyed by the empire. The elders discuss it and realize that the trees are vital to their survival and the empire had destroyed numbers of trees in their occupancy. The elders agree and the rebels are part of the tribe,now.
We don;t see this scene in the movie but we do see the wise Ewok elders contemplating Threepios story, and their is a discusion in which Threepio announces that thy are part of the tribe.
3. Hey, Threepio is the God of the Ewoks!!! Why wouldn;t they listen to him!!!!!!!
#20
Posted 28 October 2004 - 10:47 AM
Mike, mate! We've been here before. If something doesn't make it into the movie, too bad. We can't judge films by things that don't happen in them. Behind the scenes stuff and extra information can be used to explain things about the movie but they cannot change the movie itself.
But anyway, it's nice to see you're trying.
#21
Posted 28 October 2004 - 10:55 AM
Mike, mate! We've been here before. If something doesn't make it into the movie, too bad. We can't judge films by things that don't happen in them. Behind the scenes stuff and extra information can be used to explain things about the movie but they cannot change the movie itself.
But anyway, it's nice to see you're trying.
Not everything in movies is implicitly stated though.
A lot of what makes the best movies are the things that are not necessarily stated but are implied.
1. The Ewok's Elders WERE discussing whether to help the Rebels. It;'s not a stretch to say that they were not completely unanimous in their decision and had doubts about helping the Rebels. I mean after
2. It;s not a stretch to to say that the Imperials did kill Ewoks prior to the Endor
Battle.
What did Leia say to Wicket? "Your pretty jittery, for a little fellow" just after those words Wicket is alarmed and takes a battle pose, Leia sees nothing. But , Wicket knows their is an Imperial trooper. In fact he's prepared for the trooper before Leia is.
3. I'm pretty sure "slash and burn agriculture" was a policy that the Imperials didn;t shy away from in building their Generator and outposts on Endor.
That alone would give the Ewoks reasons to be a might perturbed at the Imperial prescence on Endor.
As funny as it may seem, .......I wouldn;t be surprised if some Imperial soldiers shot a few Ewoks for food, pelt or hell maybe out of pure boredom.
This post has been edited by Mike Mac from NYU: 28 October 2004 - 10:59 AM
#23
Posted 28 October 2004 - 11:02 AM
The novelization of ROTJ was based on the screenplay as well as the ideas used in setting up the background of the movie.
A lot of the exposition in movie novels is based on the screenwriters and directors "scaffolding" of scenes and character motivations.
#24
Posted 28 October 2004 - 02:21 PM
[quote]He slapped us in the face with this BS during TPM as well. The Gun Gun's.[/i]
At least the Gungans (I'm not sure what's the proper spelling) had credible gear, guns, shields, and so forth. They seemed to have had at least a little drill. What undercuts them is that all of the Gungans we hear talking, Jar Jar and Capt. Tarpals and to a lesser extent the Boss, sound unbelievably stupid. Jar Jar takes the cake, of course, with his "Exsqueeze me!" in particular, but Capt. Tarpals speaks of "doo-doo" (when did Lucas get the taste for scatology? There are other instances in TPM) and the Boss makes Jar Jar a general, a frickin' general!
Oh, one more thing comes to mind. The final sequence (whose music, I must admit, I rather like) implies that the Gungans and the Nubians have been somehow at war. Is there the slightest evidence for this in the rest of the movie?
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And Tolkien didn't even think that he could pull off The Lord of the Rings, as he implies in the preface. I read Humphrey Carpenter's The Inklings and vaguely remember that C. S. Lewis and others of Lewis's friends urged him to get his stuff on paper--but don't quote me on that.
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Otherwise Lucas would have had to sweat out another way to work, "I've got a bad feeling about this," into the script.
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And that AT-AT (have I got that right?) weakened considerably between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, didn't it? OK, maybe it would be weaker on the stronger models.
More vague memories: my folks had a subscription to Newsweek for a time when I was a kid and I read an article on ROTJ that had just been released. If I remember rightly, it suggested that Lucas's underdog Ewoks' defeating the Empire were supposed to hint at Vietnam. If that's true, I have to say that Lucas couldn't have chosen a more patronizing way to do it.
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W. C. Fields knew this and said that he'd never act with children or pets.
#26
Posted 28 October 2004 - 02:36 PM
Actually, if you are a person who knows military strategy and history.......
....it would have been surprising had the Ewoks NOT won the battle.
The Ewoks had a huge advantage over the Imperials.
To understand that advantage, put yourself in the shoes of an imperila scout fighting a group of five Ewoks in the forest of Endor.
Then place yourself in the role of the leader of a group of five Ewoks trying to kil one imperial Scout.
The five Ewoks would have the easier task.
Just put yourself in those situations.
#29
Posted 28 October 2004 - 02:46 PM
Of all the interviews I have heard Lucas do, including the DVD Documentary Empire of Dreams, he does not mention Campbell a whole lot. He mentions him, yeah, but he mentions Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon MUCH more, so that's just wrong. I agree with you that he does sometimes pass them off as more than they are, but Lucas has always paraded the fact that these are homages to the serials of the 30s.
As for the ewoks, I think they're fine. They don't take away from the movie for me. As for Vietnam, there are a couple things that make me think that is true. Lucas was set to direct Apocalpyse Now, but Coppola took it from him, and Lucas was REALLY pissed about this. When I watched Apocalypse Now, there were many sequences where I was saying, "Hey, Endor looks a lot like that." I think it was his way of doing a mini-Vietnam for kids or something. But here are scenes with ewoks that I'll rate on a scale of one to ten.
Wicket and Leia - 6
Ewoks capture heroes - 7
Release of heroes - 7
3P0 telling story of Rebellion to Ewoks - 10 (I explained why in another post, if you want me to explain again, I will)
Ewok takes speeder - 3
Ewok battle - 5 (overall, some parts are embarassing, some parts I thought were pretty good)
Ewok Celebration - 7.5
Ewok theme music - 5.5
Ewok Battle music - 8.5
So overall, they're pretty much average, with some bright spots and some bad spots, but it really didn't and still doesn't detract from the movie for me. And I love the rest of it.
#30
Posted 28 October 2004 - 03:08 PM
Ewoks capture heroes - 7
Release of heroes - 7
3P0 telling story of Rebellion to Ewoks - 10 (I explained why in another post, if you want me to explain again, I will)
Ewok takes speeder - 3
Ewok battle - 5 (overall, some parts are embarassing, some parts I thought were pretty good)
Ewok Celebration - 7.5
Ewok theme music - 5.5
Ewok Battle music - 8.5
This is the most accurate analysis of the Ewoks scenes.
I would give the Leia scene a higher mark though. 7.5. That scene had some magical moments for Carrie Fisher. It was avery "story book" like scene like something out of Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty.
The Ewok takes the Speeder rating is fair.
-It was a scene that probably could have been cut.
Ewoks capture heroes - 7
Actually had some really funny moments between 3PO and Han. It also further emphasized the turn in Luke's character. It was cool to see the Luke who used to complain"I'm never getting of this rock!!" speak so cooly adn wisely to Threepio in telling him to tell the Ewoks that he wil get angry and use his magic.
but it didn;t take anything away from the movie.
C3P0s story. It was a very beautiful scene and very allegorical. In a way teh Ewoks are us, and their listen to the 'story" being fascinated much in the same way, we are fascinated by the Star Wars tale. We Star Wars fans are the Ewok children listening to this fantastic epic story.