[The Scornful Roman]

I was thinking last night and this morning, as to how I would have done the Star Wars prequels and made them better than the ones that we've been given. Here are my thoughts. . .

Number One: No Little Boy Annie.

That's right; no child actor, no Schmoopy Shmi mama, no droid that suspiciously looks like C-3PO lying around in his room like a discarded Legos set. And no stupid pod-race, either. The prequel story should have started off with Anakin as a young man, perhaps about Luke's age in the first OT movie. And since Obi-Wan mentioned that Luke's father was a great pilot, perhaps he could be a young recruit in the Republic's space navy. A fighter pilot, maybe.

Number Two: No Ripping Off The Bible.

Yes, Star Wars has plenty of Christian fans. I used to be one of them. Ripping it off and creating your own thinly-veiled secular version of the immaculate conception is just not right, George. It's wrong, it's dumb and obvious, and it really sends some serious mixed messages. So Anakin is some sort of prophecized saviour of the universe, but then he goes bad? What is he, the Antichrist? Sure seems like it, George. (Also, since he's more 'special' than his son, Luke, it seems logical that Anakin would be more powerful.)

Instead, I'd have Anakin basically be like Luke: the biological result of normal sexual intercourse.

Number Three: Tattooine Is Not The Center Of The Universe.

Why is it that Anakin is from Tattooine? Why does he need to be from the same planet as his son? Make him from Coruscant, or Corellia. Show us something new instead of the same old sand dunes and Sand People. Corellians are also supposed to be good pilots (and a little bit arrogant, like Han), so it would be logical for Anakin to be from there.

Number Four: Qui-Gon, Be Gone!

I like Liam Neeson as an actor, but Episode One is probably the worst acting job I've seen him do. And since it is hinted at that Obi-Wan is trained by Yoda, well, why not have him BE trained by Yoda?! Cut out the third-party stuff. The impression that is given in the OT is that Anakin was taken under Obi-Wan's wing when Obi was still too young, and too immature himself to give wise counsel. Perhaps Obi-Wan was still in training with Yoda at this time.

Also, shouldn't Obi-Wan become a general at some point? So far in the Prequels, he hasn't.

Number Five: No Jar-Jar, No Gungans.

Why? They're lame. Do I have to say anything more?

Number Six: CGI Only When Necessary.

Since the CGI in Ep. One already looks fake, it seems like George would want to spend the extra dollar and actually build real sets, not computer-generated ones. But he didn't, and the films look all the worse for it.

Number Seven: More Palpatine, More Politics.

Ian McDiarmid is a great actor. He was one of the best things about ROTJ, and he proves that he's one of the best things that Star Wars still has going for it. Unfortunately, he was severely underused in PM. Give Palpatine's machinations center stage. Show him conning people into thinking he's the saviour of the Republic. Show us how the Republic is disintegrating and how Palpatine proposes to stop it. Give us more of Terrence Stamp, and build up his character more. He's a great actor reduced to playing second fiddle to Pod racing and farting CGI animals. This should not be. Also, show us Mon Mothma and Bail Organa. Establish their characters swiftly and deftly.

Number Eight: Why We Fight.

What's the Trade Federation? Who are the Seperatists in AOTC? These things and organizations, and the reason behind the Republic's dissolution, should be delineated quickly and clearly, or they should be dropped. Perhaps the Seperatists are the Rebels in the OT, except under the terrorist management of Count Dooku. Maybe the Trade Federation is like the Weyland-Yutani corporation in Alien.

Perhaps, also, the Republic itself is sliding into tyranny. Perhaps the Seperatists are colonies or important star systems that are trying to break away from the Republic, and instead of letting them go peaceably, the Republic is trying to hold its union together at any cost.

Number Nine: No Fart Jokes.

I love bathroom humor as much as the next person, but fart jokes and stepping in crap jokes do not belong in a Star Wars film. Come on, this prequel trilogy is about facistic genocide and evil taking control and other bad stuff. Treat it with the seriousness that it deserves.

Number Ten: Everybody Does Not Know Everybody Else.

Greedo does not need to be in these film. Boba Fett does not need to be in these films. C-3PO and R2-D2 can be in these films, but preferrably in a more subtle way. Half the cast of minor characters from the OT does not need to be in these films.

Number Eleven: Do Not Mess With Fett.

I've never been the hugest Boba Fett fan, but what George did to him in AOTC was wrong. He took a cool, bad-ass, mysterious character, sucked all the mysteriousness out of him, and made him into a cute kid. WRONG MOVE. Boba was cool BECAUSE he was mysterious. He was a man with no face and probably an assumed name. He was unique. Making him into (literally) a poor copy of his spiffy dad is such a wrong move that words fail to convey how wrong it is.

Number Twelve: Do Not Contradict The EU.

Now, this is probably where I'm going to get in trouble with you guys. Bear with me, OK?

I loved the majority of the EU books when I was a Star Wars fan. I devoured them. Most of them, I loved (except for Darksaber and a few others, but let's not get into that), and I took them as Canon since they were officially licenced LucasCorp. projects. (Now I know that they are considered officially as less canon than the films, but again, let's not get into that.) Seeing as how I still think that most of the EU adventures did a better job with Star Wars then the prequels, I'd like it if they weren't contradicted so blatantly, seeing as how the spin-off books were molded to the first trilogy's story. I know that there are people who don't like the EU, and I can respect that. But I feel that as seeing how they are all liscenced and authorized Lucas products, they should fit in together seamlessly. So seamlessly, that if someone doesn't like the Prequels and prefers the OT and the EU, he/she can do that. If someone prefers the Prequels and the EU, they can likewise do that. If someone only likes the films they can safely ignore the EU, and if they like the EU and prefer reading about Star Wars rather than watching it, they can do that. That's some thing for everyone and the best of both worlds.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.

This post has been edited by The Scornful Roman: 27 October 2004 - 09:19 AM

[littlejerryseinfeld]

scornful roman (best name EVER): good points. some of these have been made on this forum, but you're new, so i forgeeev.

i especially like that you added some alternatives to some of the more ridiculous things you see in the prequels. like having anakin be a corellian. good stuff. also, having palpatine playing more of a role. he's the best actor there, so why not give him more screen time?

how bout not having a 16 year old 'queen' (elected, no less) running a planet? just for that, naboo should have been invaded. if you elect a 16 year old porcelin doll as your ruler, you don't deserve the right to a free society.

what should have happened (and i think this has been mentioned before), is that she should have been queen of alderan... and it would logically follow that her daughter would be a princess.

oh, well.

[Chefelf]

Why is littlejerryseinfeld another person??

Good points, Scornful Roman. I agree, that is a fine user name.

Your list proves something: nothing can really be taken out of the prequels as is. An overall rewrite is necessary. However, in the spirit of making lists, I would add one more:

Number Thirteen: No Darth Maul

Darth Maul was a shallow, lifeless character. He had virutally no dialogue, stupid facepaint, and no personality other than "being evil". While we're at it, the whole "Darth" thing is out of hand. Why is everyone a Darth? Can't we just say Darth Vader was a name and Darth isn't some meaningless title? It's sorta become a parody of itself.

[Paladin]

Great points there, Roman, that's what the PT should be, a serious work of science fiction that's supposed to explain the backstory of what is potentially the greatest sci-fi triology ever. Sadly, George Lucas, even though having more than 20 years to come up with a good idea, gave us a bunch of special effects and practically no story at all. Just look at Episode II and you'll see exactly what I mean. The whole movie was just a bunch of special effects and making Boba Fett fan's go 'wow'. I found myself groaning and moaning throughout the movie and almost got to begging it to get on with the story. Sadly, I never got what I asked for, and when the movie was over, I left the movie theather in disgust and my FIRST thought was 'George Lucas is gonna have a hard time making a good finale.'

How true will those thoughts be proven? All I can do is wait till Episode III comes out and see for myself. I've stated my plan about a million times on this forum and I'll do it again. Once Episode III comes out, I'll buy it and all the prequel movies on DVD, have a big watching marathon and watch all the Star Wars movies from Episode I till VII in one go, and then shelf them and NEVER watch them again!

What will you do after Episode III comes out?

[littlejerryseinfeld]

chef - same littlejerry, but i tried to logon, and it didn't allow me to. i thought maybe it was because i had let the account expire. no biggie. my 'littlejerry' avatar will be back up tonite.

"jerry seinfeld, little or big, doesn't take a fall!" -- jerry seinfeld

[Chefelf]

What will you do after Episode III comes out?

Head to the theaters on opening night with Jacques. There I will take notes for my upcoming "Reasons to Hate Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith".

I'm actually looking very forward to it. 203 days left!

[civilian_number_two]

That's a good list of what to take OUT. It gets a little harder whn you try to figure what you'd put back IN.

As for me, I woould have liked a completely different story, about different characters, in which Obi Wan and eventually Anikin play important roles. I suppose that's what George has tried todo, but IMO he has done a bad job in the one film I saw and the other I've heard so much about.

[Jordan]

This forum has become an archive of 'all things wrong with SW'.

We're like historians here, archiving the rise and fall of a saga.

In 100 years, people will look back at this site, or whats left of my hardcopy print offs and people will know the truth.

[Just your average movie goer]

That's a good list of what to take OUT. It gets a little harder whn you try to figure what you'd put back IN.

True. But there's a lot of stuff already mentioned in the original films to get you started - Unearthing the fossil.

I can't recommend that thread enough.

[Just your average movie goer]

I have a little more time than I did when making that last post so I'd just like to mention your point about not contradicting the Extended Universe.

I think it depends on which books in the Extended Universe are being contradicted. Now for instance, anything written by Kevin J. Anderson should be discarded and completely ignored. And there are other authors like him, although none that nearly as bad or childish.


However, some of the Extended Universe stuff is very good. And at the top of my list comes the Thrawn Trilogy - Heir To The Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command - by Timothy Zahn.

These books are without a doubt the best thing that has happened to Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back was released. These are books that take the saga and its characters and do something incredible with them. They take the story somewhere. Lucas should be bloody grateful that such a talented author as Timothy Zahn breathed some life back into his creation.

I will go even further and say that Lucas should not have worried about the prequels so early. The second Timothy Zahn's books came off the printing press, he should have been hard at work making them into films. Here was the chance to make the greatest film trilogy in the history of cinema. Unlike the original Star Wars trilogy, all three parts in this one are equally as strong. The Star Wars universe also becomes a vastly richer and more interesting place in this one as well.

Lucas should have made those as soon as the books came out however, because of our ageing actors. Any later and they would have been too old. So now, for example, it's a lost opportunity. And that is a sad thing.

However, I definitely consider the Thrawn Trilogy to be canon. The books in that series are Episodes VII, VIII and IX as far as I'm concerned.



Okay, a missed opportunity. But there is no use in dwelling on it now. However, I feel that within those stories, Timothy Zahn provided a lot of insight on how the Star Wars universe was before the original trilogy - how the senate operated, what the Imperial Senate was like, what the Emperor was like, glimpses at the Jedi of the Old Republic. I feel Lucas could have learned a lot from them because unlike the rubbish he came up with, Zahn's ideas are good.

In fact, I will go even further to say that Lucas should have hired Zahn to pen the prequels. Not only would Zahn have made a great trilogy that tied in with the original movies like a hand to a glove, he would have given it the maturity that the trilogy required.

We're looking at the fall of a Republic that has stood for over a thousand generations, the extermination of the Jedi Knights, a good man turned to a monster and the rise of an oppressive regime. It's quite serious subject matter and should be treated as such... instead we get pod-races, "Yippeee!" and fart-jokes.

As you can see, I have clearly lost track of my original point and am lapsing into what is known as a stream of consciousness. So if you are looking for a conclusion to my original point, it's probably somewhere in one of my earlier paragraphs.

But while I'm on the matter of the seriousness of the back story behind Star Wars, I'd like to suggest that this in itself is a good argument for not making these films in the first place.

Star Wars is a fun film. While The Empire Strikes Back is a darker movie, it is alright because it is taking an existing story to new territory.

However, creating a series of really dark and moody movies that lead to what is a fairly fun adventure with its tongue in its cheek a lot of the time is just really strange.

Yes, I know that Star Wars has its more serious elements and by no means am I saying that it's not a strong story with a climactic ending - it is. If it wasn't, I think we wouldn't be talking about it anymore. But things were never too bad. I don't think that even once we were worried that something might happen to Luke, Han or Leia. We lost Obi Wan, true. But somehow I always knew he was going to be a goner.

Now let's just imagine that you got the serious prequels that you should have had and you watch them through to Episode III and then proceed to Star Wars.

I think it would feel pretty weird. You'd be worried about the rise of this terrible Empire that's put the galaxy in turmoil and then you'd see this fun little flick where a small bunch of guys wipe the floor with it. You'd say "That's IT? We went through all of this build up over three movies and that's IT?"

Now, I think that would be pretty strange.


However, it's not something anyone will ever experience for themselves though as what we have instead is the LUCAS CRAPTACULAR!

In this instance, if you were to watch the series through to Episode III and then proceed to Star Wars, you're reaction will be "Wow! What a welcome relief! This movie's good. Look, Hayden's gone! Oh wow! The CGI's gone! Hey, look! Human characters! Oh, this is great!"

[Helena]

Scornful Roman, I agree 100% with everything you say... and you're interested in politics as well. Willl you marry me?

(Joke.)

how bout not having a 16 year old 'queen' (elected, no less) running a planet?  just for that, naboo should have been invaded.  if you elect a 16 year old porcelin doll as your ruler, you don't deserve the right to a free society.

Hear, hear! Especially since she was 14, not 16. And I always thought Leia's mother should have been queen of Alderaan as well.

[The Scornful Roman]

[QUOTE=Just your average movie goer,Oct 28 2004, 03:39 AM]

Quote

I have a little more time than I did when making that last post so I'd just like to mention your point about not contradicting the Extended Universe.

I think it depends on which books in the Extended Universe are being contradicted.  Now for instance, anything written by Kevin J. Anderson should be discarded and completely ignored.  And there are other authors like him, although none that nearly as bad or childish.

I hated Darksaber. I was a huge Luke fan at that time and I thought that taking away his girlfriend was cruel.

Quote

However, some of the Extended Universe stuff is very good.  And at the top of my list comes the Thrawn Trilogy - Heir To The Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command - by Timothy Zahn. 

These books are without a doubt the best thing that has happened to Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back was released.  These are books that take the saga and its characters and do something incredible with them.  They take the story somewhere.  Lucas should be bloody grateful that such a talented author as Timothy Zahn breathed some life back into his creation.

I've read a lot of the Star Wars EU novels, but I only read part of Heir to the Empire. Maybe, just maybe, I'll pick it up one day again. . . The prequels pretty much destroyed my faith in George Lucas's 'verse, though I still have a tiny, insane shred of hope that perhaps Episode III will be halfway decent. When that's gone... :yuck:

I will also add that I agree with your sentiment that the Prequels are, by their very nature, unnecessary. There was the pontential for a good set of films, but like the Dune prequel novels by Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert, they are merely redundant, because we know where the tale goes, ultimately. (Also, the Dune prequels are by and large awful, much like the Star Wars prequels.)

Lucas should have made sequels to the OT, not prequels. And if he was going to base them off of a set of EU novels, then he should have either used Zahn's novels, or the
Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy. Again, not everyone is going to agree with this, and that's your right, but I loved the Black Fleet Crisis novels. They gave such an in-depth feel, gritty, nuts-and-bolts feel for the New Republic and its planets and citizens that I actually felt that I had been given a day pass for a vacation at Coruscant. The Yevetha were chilling villains, and I liked how their captured Imperial slaves turn the tables on them at the end, and end up saving the New Republic's fleet. The Yevetha were pretty credible baddies in that they actually gave the Republic a severe mauling in their opening encounters (if I recall correctly...). I liked the way that the New Republic was showing signs of friction when the human senators (perhaps blinded by post-Imperial bigotries) try to stop Leia from punishing the Yevetha for their crimes. It was a very believable moment in that not every New Republic member would be as pure as the driven snow. Plus, to top it all off, the books have Admiral Ackbar and we get to hear Chewbacca think in Book 3. That really opened up the character for me.

This post has been edited by The Scornful Roman: 28 October 2004 - 03:55 PM