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Stuff you like about the prequels? Must be something?

#1 User is offline   Garth Vader Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 02:26 PM

If you want to list a few things you liked about episode's I and II do so, mainly scenes that wouldn't look out of place in the OT.

I liked the clone army assembling for the coming conflict and the dark kamino water planet from episode II. Palpatine and Coruscant was pretty interesing as well. I'm pretty much out of ideas apart from that.
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#2 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 03:21 PM

1)Um, the opening of TPM is pretty decent. (minus the bad Charlie Chan impressions for the Neimodians) Once the droid army shows up it's all downhill.
2)The first time we see Natalie Portman without that make up. Can't deny she's hot, even if she couldn't act her way out of a paperbag (at least in the PT)
3)Ewen McGregor actually did a good job as Obi Wan, micking Alec Guiness almost perfectly. Too bad he had a shitty character and bad dialogue to work with
4)Ian McDermind did a great job as Palpatine, far better than the PT deserved
5)Though it was based on a video game, the Obi Wan/Jango fight was pretty good.
6)The ensuing chase through the asteroid field is cool to watch, but we've seen it before in ESB (and in about dozen Star Wars games. Was Theerpio sure about the odds, because it seems everyone in the SW universe except Imperials survive an asteroid field)
7)The arrival on Kamino looks pretty cool too. I like a world where it always rains
8)The sound effects on both movies are as always top notch
9)As is John Williams score (Though I hate Duel of the Fates)
10)The Podracing videogame that came outafter TPM....It's a fun game to play at the arcades

Things that might've been cool if only Lucas hadn't found a way to screw it up
1)I would've liked Qui Gonn better if he didn't have such a non chalant attitude about slavery. He doesn't even seem to bat an eye. So un-Jedi like
2)The Podrace might've been cool if we didn't have that annoying two headed announcer, and the fact a nine year old boy wins it all
3)The fight between Obi Wan/Qui Gonn and Maul could've been good if we actually saw some emotion from the participates. Some witty banter, some signs of frustration on the Jedi's face...anything. The only time we see that is after Qui Gonn is killed
4)Padawans might've been cool if they didn't have those stupid hair cuts
5)Episode 2 had a decent story line, if only done by a director and writer who was concerned about more than special effects
6)Gungans could've been good if they were another species, any other species (except maybe Neimodians)
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#3 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 05:45 PM

OK, let me think.

There's one bit in "The Phantom Menace" that I liked which nobody else did, I'll be bound. When Anakin sees Amidala for the first time he asks, "Are you an angel?" Most viewers probably laugh at that but it put me in mind of the mediaeval romance "Perceval" by Chretien de Troyes. Perceval is a boy living with his widowed mother. He meets a group of five knights by chance and wonders whether they are angels. Over his mother's objections he determines to go with them; she finally relents, gives Perceval some advice, and sends her son on his way. Riding away Perceval looks back and sees his mother collapse, but he rides on. My suspicion that Lucas must have had "Perceval" in mind is strengthened when Shmi (yeah, it's a dumb name) Skywalker gives her son one last word of advice: "Don't look back."

I think I already mentioned one exchange between Anakin and Qui-Gon that I liked, the one where Anakin asks him if he's a Jedi because he's carrying a "laser sword". "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him," replies Qui-Gon, in an interesting tone of voice. When Anakin says that nobody can kill a Jedi, he replies in a very different tone, "I wish that were so." Neeson is more humourless and monochromatic in Episode I than in anything I've ever seen him in (with the possible exception of "Rob Roy") but in that little scene his quality shines through.

Even though the setup is contrived, the scene where Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Maul are temporarily trapped apart from one another shows up well the differences between their characters. Maul paces like a caged animal; Qui-Gon closes his eyes and gathers his strength; Obi-Wan impatiently balances on the balls of his feet. (But just what is that weird arrangement of shields for? While the actors all buckle a good swash the set on which their fight takes place reminds me of the purposeless corridor of choppy crushy things in "Galaxy Quest".)

The battle between the Gungans and the droids has its problems (what the *expletive deleted* is Jar Jar doing there?) but there are some good shots in it. My favorite is a brief shot of the droids advancing upon the Gungan front line. They're maybe ten yards apart and the space between them is thick with blaster bolts ricocheting off the Gungans' shields.

Some of William's score for "The Phantom Menace" is good; I particularly liked the droid invasion music. However, to my ear, the score for Episode I is less...oh, how to put it...less varied, less complex. In the earlier movies Williams did an excellent job of not merely reusing themes but giving us hints and variations, rather like Wagner's "motives" in the Ring cycle. There is repetition but repetition with variation. The Episode I score, however, seems to me merely repetitive. Individual pieces of music are good but they're often not fitted together well, or repeated verbatim without any effort at change.

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2)The first time we see Natalie Portman without that make up. Can't deny she's hot, even if she couldn't act her way out of a paperbag (at least in the PT)


She's better in "Attack of the Clones"? Worse, I say, because Amidala is supposed to be thirty or so in that movie but Portman still comes across like a feckless teenager. You know, it used to be that actresses could actually seem more adult than they really were. Lauren Bacall was seventeen in "To Have and Have Not" but her character is believably mature. Cathy Moriarty was scarcely older in "Raging Bull" but convincingly portrays her character over a span of many years. Portman doesn't stand a chance.

I have a hard time coming up with anything in "Attack of the Clones" that I really liked. The experience of watching "The Phantom Menace" was for me somewhat alike to that of watching "The Matrix", a different movie that's crap in a different way. I enjoyed watching both and emerged from the theatre thinking that I'd gotten my money's worth; only later, after a chance to watch the movies again and to think about them for a while, did their flaws begin to overcome my appreciation for the movies. But I walked away from "Attack of the Clones" angry, feeling that I'd been cheated; I've never come away from any other movie with that feeling. Most of the good moments in the movie are ripped off "Empire Strikes Back" (e.g. the closing sequence.) Good things? Er, hm. Temuera Morrison is in it. He doesn't do anything but he's there. The scene where Anakin is having a nightmare and looking as though he's, uh, being serviced is good for a laugh. We also get some important exposition in which we learn where Luke's incompetence genes come from--both sides of the family! Dooku's (argh) whipping Obi-Wan and Anakin together in thirty seconds flat was, at least, somewhat realistic, even though I suspect that was merely to set up Yoda's happy fun ball imitation.

Of course I'm being snarky but, believe me, as I sit here I'm trying really hard to think of something special about Episode II and failing. As I said before, as lame as Episode I was at time I wouldn't mind seeing it again at all. If it were on TV I'd go watch. I can't say the same for Episode II.
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#4 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 06:00 PM

Quite the opposite for me. I tried to show my gf TPM, but I could'nt take it anymore half way through. I had to shut it off. As bad as ATOC, the action squences make it watchable. But it never feels like a true Star Wars movie, and I do have to fast forward the Padme/Anakin love scenes, quite possible the worst romance in recent movie history.

I do wonder what us prequel bashers would think if the original trilogy never happened, and Lucas started these projects on their own. I think we'd still be harsh as critics, but without the masterpieces of Stars Wars and Empire to compare to we might enjoy them more

And Moriaty was fantastic in the later scenes of Raging Bull. During th bathroom scene where LaMotta goes nuts she shines. I've only seen Portman good in one movie, and I can't even remember the name
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#5 User is offline   Garth Vader Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 07:17 PM

If I had to make my own Prequels I would get rid of the phantom menace and start with something else. Nothing important happens in it or is really necessary to the saga as a whole, just a chance for lucas to show off a new star wars universe courtesy of ILM. Anakin being discovered would've been interesting, but the fact that he was a little brat sort of made you care less about him, maybe if he was the same age as Luke was in ANH and came from somewhere else other than tatooine it might've been a great start to the trilogy to see the origins as darth vader.

Episode II has some interesting plot points - the origins of the empire, the separtists breaking off from the republic led by a sith lord, anakin coming closer to the darkside, the creation of an army of the republic by palpatine and the subsequent break out of the clone war. It was just ruined by Lucas being director and screenwriter and his poor casting decisions on anakin skywalker.

This post has been edited by Garth Vader: 08 October 2004 - 07:23 PM

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#6 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE
I do wonder what us prequel bashers would think if the original trilogy never happened, and Lucas started these projects on their own. I think we'd still be harsh as critics, but without the masterpieces of Stars Wars and Empire to compare to we might enjoy them more


Probably. However, they would quickly fade into obscurity and no-one would remember them in five years' time... which would be a fine thing.
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#7 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:04 PM

You forget also that there would have been other films to compare Episodes I and II against, notably (now) the LOTR films.
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#8 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:45 PM

Ah, how could I forget that? That's my favourite film trilogy... and The Fellowship of the Ring is quite possibly the greatest film I've ever seen. No, I don't think the prequels would hold up compared to these films very well at all.
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#9 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 10:04 PM

QUOTE
Ah, how could I forget that? That's my favourite film trilogy... and The Fellowship of the Ring is quite possibly the greatest film I've ever seen. No, I don't think the prequels would hold up compared to these films very well at all.


I need to get FOTR and ROTK. I bought the two towers by mistake when I wanted to buy The fellowship... I didn't watch the movie completely since it confused me a lot. But that's understadable given the fact that I shouldn't watch the second part of the story before the first! tongue.gif
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#10 User is offline   Give Me The Originals Dammit Icon

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 02:55 AM

Well if I have to be totally honest I did like the opening action sequence in ATOC was pretty exciting. Even if the dialog was a bit stilted, I thought George was back on track. Unfortunately it was all downhill from there.
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#11 User is offline   Garth Vader Icon

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (Give Me The Originals Dammit @ Oct 9 2004, 02:55 AM)
Well if I have to be totally honest I did like the opening action sequence in ATOC was pretty exciting. Even if the dialog was a bit stilted, I thought George was back on track. Unfortunately it was all downhill from there.

true. lucas always has some great ideas buy always finds ways to ruin them. I thought the opening 20 minutes or so of TPM was alright, the introduction of jar jar kind of distracted you but when they went to tatooine it all went downhill. The main thing that annoys me about AOTC is the characters, I really don't care for them at all which is probably going to seep into episode III as well and ruin the emotional pay off. And why does coruscant look like manhatten in the chase scene?
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#12 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 07:11 PM

If the original draft for Episode One is not a phoney, than he had a great idea. No damn 9 year old kids or Gungans yell.gif But it seems the closer he gets to finish a project, the more hackneyed and juvenile it becomes
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#13 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 02:02 AM

Garth-

i think i`m the opposite. i actually thought the opening scenes with the Jedi on the TF ship were perhaps the worst of the film. everything felt too rushed and confused. once they got to Tatooine though i thought the film really took off what with Anakin, shmi, sebulba etc. and the pacing was a definate improvment over those early scenes (which i grew to appreciate more on repeated viewings)

Also see this thread

This post has been edited by jariten: 10 October 2004 - 02:04 AM

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#14 User is offline   Emlyn Icon

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Posted 13 October 2004 - 07:58 PM

I agree with Garth Vader, there were some interesting plot points. Lucas should have stuck with justthinking up the story and given the directing and screenwriting to someone else . . . who can actually direct and write good dialogue. To tell the truth, I didn't really get most of the plot because I was so busy critiqueing the rest of it.
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#15 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 07:18 AM

I know opinion is divided on this, but I do like 'Duel of the Fates'. I've always loved choral music.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

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Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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