[Madam Corvax]

Because some more malcontent forum members complained about the lack of topics for discussion I have decided to start this little thread, which I hope enlightens me in the subject which has been puzzling me for some time.

It is about Jams Bond films (I stubbornly refuse to use the word “movie” . Not using the words “movie” and “cute” landed me an “A” in writing composition in my year two and I am forever grateful). The question is – Are they serious?

My perspective on these pieces of cinematography is quite different than the rest of you, I am afraid. Bond films were banned in the Eastern block, and the first film I saw was “The Licence to Kill” on video. As it was released in 1989, it did not make to the cinemas, but straight to video in Poland. The first Bond feature in local theatres was “Goldeneye”.

Perhaps to compensate for that, approximately every two years Polish public television broadcasts all the films. So, this autumn on Friday nights I had the chance to see (in that order) Dr No, Live or Let Die, On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, The Living Daylights and (this Friday) Goldeneye, with fifteen more to come. It puzzled me no end, what is the logic behind such sequencing of the films, and it occurred to me then that they were the first played by each of the actors, but it does not make much sense otherwise.

For the lack of anything better to do, I watched them all. Seldom do I have a chance for a good laugh, and this seems like a perfect opportunity. First, we see Sean Connery, hairpiece and all playing a “secret agent”. The “secret” agent arrives at am airport, where the driver knows his name and he is being watched by dozen at least spies from various telephone boxes. He also thinks nothing of killing with cold blood, sleeps around in a most unbelievable fashion and the fact that he escapes all traps is attributed to some magical good luck rather than personal qualities of the guy, which struck me as rather thick.

George Lazenby was not even much to look at. The only remarkable thing about OHMSS was Telly Savallas as a villain. Gosh, wasn’t he splendid. He exuded pure, reckless evil and was much ahead of his time. Puny Lazenby was not match for him.

I looked forward to seeing Roger Moore, because some expressed the opinion that he is the best. While I quite liked the plot of LALD, which involved a crazy political leader linking with drug baron, I got bored to death by endless boat chase on Louisiana canals.

Timothy Dalton was a pleasant surprise and a breath of fresh air. I liked the soft side of his character, the way he refuses to kill the girl and falls for her in a rather romantic way. But unfortunately, the plot involved Russians and it made me fall from my chair from laughter. First of all, the Russians are called Pushkin and Gogol. It is like calling fictitious presidents of US in a film Hemingway and Poe. And the film also expresses a curious sentiment of the western countries to Afghanistan mujahedins, which are portrayed as basically good, dashing, romantic fellows who even follow a girl to save Bond. It is rather sad in a perspective, when we know that these dashing fellows turned into Talebans and treated women worse than dirt.

So, you tell me – what is it in these films, because sure as hell they are not real. Some gadgets are laughable, politics and spying in general ridiculous, the girls are probably embodiment of current beauty and fashion ideals and it is fun to watch the legs of trousers go alternatively narrow and wide. Is there anything else there?

[Paladin]

People like spy movies, and they like the fancy, but rather impractical gadgets and gimmicks they curn up.

BTW, Madam, you said that you didn't want to miss my story... and I posted it. Check out Movie Goer's movie thread for the links.

[Just your average movie goer]

He did. I gave him some good feedback as well and told him to make a thread in the Lobby for any future posts concerning it.

Hmmm... James Bond....

What can I say? Some of them are entertaining. Most of them are not. Roger Moore is terrible. He is really bland and I've only sat through two of his films - unfortunately, Live and Let Die was one of them. I don't know why I kept watching this film. It is pathetic... and that freakin' boat chase went on forever. And don't even mention the annoying sherriff..... ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

I think I just watched it because at the time, I thought Jane Seymour looked cute. I also saw one that's name elludes me at the moment. It was the first one to feature Jaws and it had a car that went underwater. It was bearable... mainly because of Barbara Bach this time... man, the Bond women are SO ESSENTIAL to these movies because without them, most of these films are unwatchable.

Oh yes, I just remembered I also saw The Man With A Golden Gun. Don't watch this film, ever... ever... ever.... I really mean it. It will only irritate the living hell out of you and make you wish to inflict violence on something. It is just a really, really awful film. It's down there with Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and Con Air.

That's it for Roger Moore... a boring actor in boring movies.

Timothy Dalton

I feel sorry for this guy. He was really likeable and made such a refreshing change to Bond's character but his two movies were just so terrible. I'm also glad you brought up the point about how in The Living Daylights, he was helping out the people who became the Taliban. For this reason alone, I cannot understand why this film is televised or still in circulation for home purchase.

I remember one scene where the girl does something and one of the mujahedins laughs cheerfully says with a shake of his head. "Ah, women." Perhaps this seemed nice at the time. It's anything but funny in hindsight.


Pierce Brosnan

I like the guy. So shoot me but I like him. I find him quite fun and charming and he doesn't take himself to seriously. Now onto his films -

Goldeneye - I really enjoyed this the first time I saw it, although it gets tired from repeat viewing. It's not really much of a film, I guess. But Sean Bean is very entertaining in it. I really liked him. Too bad they killed him off.

Tomorrow Never Dies - I used to think this movie was really good. I now realise that it isn't. The reason I thought this movie was good was because it had Michelle Yeoh in it. Michelle Yeoh was very good... beautiful, intelligent, talented, mesmerising... er, sorry, got a bit sidetracked there. Yes, Michelle Yeoh was great. But the film was not.

The World Is Not Enough - This film was shithouse. End review.

Dies Another Day - This film was so goddamn unbelievably bad, words fail me. Add this to the list of the worst films I have ever seen. There was NOTHING to like about this film. No warmth, no charm, no good performances, terrible story, terrible effects, a truly horrible song by Madonna followed up later in the film by a truly horrible cameo appearance, a plastic Icarus suit with a rocket pack.... I can't go on. I will say however, that this film is SO bad that just thinking about it, I feel like breaking down and crying. In fact, if I don't stop talking about it, I will so...


What else? How about other films in the series.

Dr No - Pretty silly but URSULA ANDRESS.... I've never seen a woman stay in bikini attire for so long during a film. Take Princess Leia in Return of the Jedi for example, as soon as she got on the Falcon, she got changed. Not Ursula though! Oh, that was beautiful and... I'm sorry, what? The film? Oh yeah, the film was pretty dull and forgettable. But Ursula Andress...

From Russia With Love - Madam Corvax. See this film. This one is good. No doomsday devices and no blowing up the world crap (unfortunately it does have poison tipped shoes, which was tragic and whoever allowed it to make the final cut of the film should be put against a wall and shot). It's just a good old fashioned spy film... it almost feels like Hitchcock in places... not because of the story but just the feel of the thing. Trust on me on this, Madam. Have a look at this movie. I think you'll enjoy it. I'm not just saying nice things about it because of that catfight between two sexy gypsy women either...

Thunderball - This was a stupid film. And I was not impressed that the bad guy tortured women. One woman took cyanide to avoid interrogation and as we reach the end of the film, a guy tortures a woman while James Bond is mucking around outside. What kind of man puts women into these situations? If anybody must get tortured in movies, and I really prefer my movies to be torture-free, then let it be the big strong hero of the piece. For shame, Bond, for shame.

Goldfinger - Some say this is the best of the series. I thought it was pretty dull.

You Only Live Twice - I think I could have really liked this one except that the main female character was killed off in this really nasty way. I never forgave the film for this. What happens is just so unpleasant that it ruined the rest of the film for me. Okay, I know all the guys on the forum are going to think I'm too sensitive about these sorts of things. It's the way I am, guys. Leave women alone, even the fictional ones in your films and novels. And keep things from getting nasty. The world's nasty enough as it is without nastiness spilling over into fiction.


Alright, I think that's about all I can remember for now. Questions, comments?

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 07 October 2004 - 06:12 AM

[Madam Corvax]

Wow, I think I'm going to print it all out to compare notes later on. I haven't seen all of those, and they will be shown in due course, so some of your comments will come in handy.
I only disagree with "From Russia with love" It is actually the only Bond novel I read. It was so unbelievebly silly to me. It always struck me how these western writers like Clancy are infatuated with Russians. The Russians as described there are how little Joe imagines them to be, so naive. And the name "Smiersh" - believe me it is just ridiculous.

But of course, this is my different perspective into Russians, comunism and Iron curtain. I will see the film, perhaps I will like it better than the novel.

And I actually liked Die Another Day, apart from Madonna. I do not know why, perhaps it was the accent of some of these guys - very English. And I like Pierce Brosnan, too, he is sassy, classy and ironic. I am sorry that he probably will not be in the next Bond film.

[Just your average movie goer]

I've never read a James Bond novel so I can't comment on the book From Russia With Love. Hopefully, you'll like the movie more.

It always struck me how these western writers like Clancy are infatuated with Russians.

Heh - Clancy. He doesn't write paperbacks. He writes paperweights.

[SimeSublime]

I always thought the Bond movies were supposed to be over the top. Never take them seriously, they're nothing more then a fun ride. The protagonist is both dashing and charming(except for Moore, who was a twat), the ladies are nothing less then sexy and seductive, the gagets are all over the place and there are explosions and gunfire at every given opertunity. To watch a Bond movie and expect nothing other then a fun adventure of rather blown proportions is madness. And before you go complaining about the russian names, may I point out the names of the various women? I mean, 'Pussy Galore', for god's sake!

[Just your average movie goer]

I'm sure Madam Corvax knows this. I know it as well. However, many of these films (and ALL of the ones with Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton*) fail to be entertaining.


*But through no fault of Dalton. He was wonderful. It's the writers who should be shot.

[SimeSublime]

I though Dalton made a great presentation of Bond, but that may be due to the fact that he was the first Bond I saw. As such, I also like Peirce, as they seem quite similar. I hear that Eric Banna is in the running to be the next Bond. I'm not sure if he could fit the picture, although he is a great actor. I've been a fan of his from his Full Frontal days.

[Just your average movie goer]

Heh! I remember when Full Frontal was still called Fast Forward. How about that?

[Vwing]

I think Bond is just a taste. Not an acquired taste, just a taste. Other than Dr. No and From Russia With Love, it is pretty much just one-liners with beautiful women, evil men, seemingly ridiculous evil plots by sometimes very ridiculous villains, and hopefully good action scenes. And I love (most of the time) it.

Dr. No I do think is a bit overrated, but you should realize that it was the first of its kind. No one had ever seen anything like this before. And I'm sorry, Madam Corvax, but Connery is excellent. The epitome of a cool and debonair spy.

From Russia With Love I really don't remember to much of, I probably should see it again, but I can't comment on it other than saying that it has a very cool opening seqence.

Goldfinger is great. It's the big-budget blockbuster, and it's fabulous. Odd-Job, Pussy Galore, a villain named Auric Goldfinger who loves gold, it doesn't get any better than that. And the action is fantastic.

Thunderball was forgettable. Not horrible, but nothing special, and kind of boring. If anything, it should be thanked as being the inspiration for Robert Wagner's No. 2 in the Austin Powers movies.

The Roger Moore films are almost uniformly terrible, as is he. I never saw Octopussy, which most say is the best one, but I really had no desire to see it. I just don't like him in that role.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service was decent, it got a little stupid, and I could never picture Lazenby as Bond (though I liked him much more than Moore).

I liked Licence to Kill. Never saw the Living Daylights, and I agree, Dalton is very good, brings a toughness to the role that Connery had, but also seems more serious and worldly.

Goldeneye is my favorite Bond film, and one of my favorite films of all time. It started my love of Sean Bean, and was the first Bond film I ever saw. I think Brosnan is excellent, I thought the action pieces were great, Natalia is one of the better women, and Famke Jannsen's character of Xenia Onatopp is one of the better villainesses. I thought it was also a great update of Bond for the 90s, staying true to his roots, but adapting to the times (Judi Dench was great as M, and the way they made her character was great as well).

Tomorrow Never Dies I didn't like. A lot of people do, but I thought it plodded along and had really a bad villain. I actually didn't find Yeoh that great either, but that's probably because by the time she came in fully I was so uninterested that I didn't really care.

I liked The World is Not Enough. It goes back to the Goldfinger formula, with outlandish yet realistic villains, and huge action pieces. It's exciting and funny, with enough drama to keep it together. Classic Bond.

Never saw Die Another Day, heard it sucked, but eventually I'll probably rent it, if for nothing else to see Halle Berry in an Ursula Andress swimsuit.

But again, I certainly do not judge people on whether or not they like Bond. It's just something you either love or you don't understand why people love it. I'm one of the former, and probably always will be.

[Madam Corvax]

I am glad somebody confirmed what I suspected of Bond films – that they are just not serious, thank you Sime.

However, I do not agree with Vwing concerning Connery. Well, let’s take Dr No. There is this girl who invites him to her house, obviously to set a trap. He goes to bed with her and everything, and five minutes later he quite seriously threatens to kill her. How is that supposed to be cool? Actually, it probably was cool to treat women like that forty years ago, but I hope you agree this is not a way to treat anybody by today’s standard, regardless whether it is a man or a woman. There was no need to go to bed with her, he must have know before that it is a trap. But he thought “I may as well knock this lady up before the mob comes here”. Gee, that was gross.

And I do not like his looks when he was young. IMHO, he is the type of man who actually looks better with age. Some guys are only handsome when they were young and after they reach certain age they go to seed – example Mark Hamill and Michael Bhien. Others look better as they mature (it was true up to a certain point for Harrison Ford).

But I am also glad some of you liked Timothy Dalton.

[Just your average movie goer]

Yes, you've definitely got a point there about how Bond treated women in the early films. He was a violent misogynist at times. I remember another scene in Dr No where Bond and his mates encounter a female spy and laugh while threatening to break her arm. Yeah, real charming... did chilvary not exist during this time?

[Madam Corvax]

I saw Goldeneye on Friday.
Izabella Scorupco is the worst actress I have ever seen. She alternately uses three facial exp​ressions, and that is the limit of her acting capability.

Sean Bean was really great, but then I like him in general, so it was the only thing worth watching.

[SimeSublime]

You know, I never noticed the corrolation between 006 and Boromir until this thread. Thats neat.

On the topic of Golden Eye, I was quite disapointed. I saw it after playing the game on the N64. For those not in the know, Goldeneye 007 is still considered to be one of the best(if not the best)computer game of all time.(I seem to remember it polling in as number 1 from the top 100 games of all time poll presented in issue 100 of Hyper>> magazine which I used to read) Anyway, the movie holds nothing to the game. Except for Boris. He's a champ.

[civilian_number_two]

Don't forget civilian_number_two!

I've said all this before, but in the game, I usually play Boris.