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Is Star Wars Science Fiction?

Poll: Is Star Wars science fiction?

Is Star Wars science fiction?

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#16 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Dec 16 2003, 01:35 AM)
the input on this topic really reflects the depth (or lack thereof) of the Tolkien v Lucas melee, as well as the knowledge and reasoning of the forum's members.

Now now! It's all well and good to make a statement such as this, but it is also helpful to explain how you see other members reasoning and knowledge is lacking in depth. It makes discussion very difficult if all people do is say, "you're wrong and I'm right. I know more than you do..." without additional explaination. dry.gif

On the matter of "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins", I actually heard that for the first time in a long time yesterday. Ah the memories of albumns/songs that should be forever wiped from all conscious knowledge. Right up ther with the William Shatner songs - Do we remember Mr Tamborine Man???
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#17 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE (Supes @ Dec 16 2003, 04:58 PM)
QUOTE (Despondent @ Dec 16 2003, 01:35 AM)
the input on this topic really reflects the depth (or lack thereof) of the Tolkien v Lucas melee, as well as the knowledge and reasoning of the forum's members.

Now now! It's all well and good to make a statement such as this, but it is also helpful to explain how you see other members reasoning and knowledge is lacking in depth.

sorry it wasn't well phrased. it was actually a slap at lucas and the lack of comparative depth in the content of his work. Tolkien=Depth, Lucas=Lack thereof smile.gif

my posts are a little more shallow than some. like a spoon percieves taste, you know? but I enjoy the conversation.

BTW, Paul was Frodo, George was Gandalf, Ringo was Sam. all good casts.

maybe best was John as Gollum.
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#18 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Dec 16 2003, 06:22 PM)
sorry it wasn't well phrased. it was actually a slap at lucas and the lack of comparative depth in the content of his work. Tolkien=Depth, Lucas=Lack thereof smile.gif

Ah! I see what you mean now rolleyes.gif A double agreement on my part then. Cheers on the clarification.
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#19 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 08:27 PM

I think you guys are being too hard on Lucas. I mean listen, he created one of the most memorable trilogies of all time. And how is he a prick for saying he wanted to make a modern fairy tale? That sounds perfectly reasonable, since he also took from mythology and other fantasy/fairy tale stories, including Lord of the Rings. And you know what? He DID succeed in creating it, or do you not notice the millions upon millions of Star Wars freaks there? Studies have shown that the average American has seen Star Wars multiple times. That's pretty damn popular right there, and that's not even mentioning the impact it has had around the world. Hell, what was that thing a month or two back when a million Europeans put Jedi as their religion? I don't care if he has turned into an intraverted, arrogant, and not-as-talented prick. The fact is, before he was, he succeeded just as well as Tolkien did in creating his own universe where people could escape from reality. You can't compare more than that, since Tolkien's is a book and obviously has more depth in it (the detail was oen of the main things that made the books popular, since he included so much that you really felt like Middle Earth existed). Ok, so LOTR came first. Who gives a crap? Many say the movie Equilibrium is a ripoff of Farhenheit 451 and 1984, and you know what? It isn't. It takes their ideas and makes a new, really cool, vehicle for them to work in, and that's great. Lucas did a fantastic job of taking the ideas of his predecessors, couple them with his own original ideas, and bang, you have an unforgettable saga of movies.

Oh and by the way, I am 10000000000 % positive that if the prequels had never come out, none of you would be saying any of this shit about Lucas involving the original trilogy. The prequels have nothing to do with OT, free your mind from them, think about when Lucas was not an arrogant prick and made these memorable movies, you'll get a much better image of him.
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Posted 16 December 2003 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Dec 16 2003, 08:27 PM)
Studies have shown that the average American has seen Star Wars multiple times.

Care to cite your source?
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#21 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Dec 16 2003, 08:27 PM)
think about when Lucas was not an arrogant prick and made these memorable movies, you'll get a much better image of him.

much like hitler before the war tongue.gif
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#22 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 10:58 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Dec 16 2003, 08:27 PM)
Oh and by the way, I am 10000000000 % positive that if the prequels had never come out, none of you would be saying any of this shit about Lucas involving the original trilogy.

Well, we wouldn't be meeting at Chefelf's forum, that's for certain. wink.gif

former star wars freak here. Lucas went for double or nothing. simply a matter of calling his bluff. dry.gif
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#23 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 12:36 AM

In truth, this forum would not have come into existance, in it current for at least, had it not been for the new Star Wars films. I don't think that people are being that hard on Lucas. I am an avid fan of the original trilogy and will happily sing the praises of George for having delivered them to us.

The issue is now that things begin to change. We seem to be getting conflicting stories in what George wanted to achieve. We first saw him change the original movies, because they were not good enough (although they are what caused people to sing his praises) and these changes seem to be partly for his own creative need to improve, but also to apease Star Wars fans by including more of what he believed they wanted. The truth is there is a great deal of them out there that love the additional scenes, the extra footage of Boba Fett, etc. Most of us here don't happen to agree it seems though. It's seems more about the mechandise than the mythology.

With the intorduction of the prequels it seems to have gone a step further. Continuity seems to have been shot, quality is not being imporved despite "this technological terror" Lucas has created and the whole of the mythology is being affected. I do believe that Lucas has in fact succeeded in his endeavour to create his own mythology, I don't believe that it has reached the standard that Tolkien has achieved, but I also feel that the new movies are seriously damaging that which was developing. It is hard not to include the new films when discussing the mythology as we are for this reason.
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#24 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 07:56 AM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Dec 16 2003, 08:27 PM)
Hell, what was that thing a month or two back when a million Europeans put Jedi as their religion?


Comedian Rick Mercer got more than a million people in Canada to "sign" an online petition to have politician Stockwell Day legally change his name to Doris Day.

The thing you're citing is based on an urban legend that if enough people put a certain word in the box for "religion" on their census form, then the word they put down would suddenly be legally recognized as a religion, whether the "religion" actually had any followers or tenets of faith. Along with the legend was a plea to all readers to put down the word "Jedi." So it was a solicited move, if it happened at all. I received one of those e-mails myself. I doubt a million people ever wrote the word "Jedi" in any box, since you say Europe and when I heard the story it was Canada, but even if they had it would be a testament to their willingness to belief silly internet gossip, not to the existence of any actual religion.

People will do dumb things if asked to; and you shouldn't believe everyhting you read.

But your general point, that the OT was good, is right on. That is, Lucas made two very good movies and one that was okay. These would still be remembered fondly, but we all dislike Lucas since he wants us all to believe that those movies never existed. He would rather put out revamped "special editions" to correct the many "mistakes" that nobody complained about when the films were new. And then he's gone on to make this prequel trilogy, which is some of the worst filmmaking I've ever heard of. Worse than WING COMMANDER. Worse than BATTLEFIELD EARTH. Worse than JUDGE DREDD. Worse than DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS. Etc.

I just saw RETURN OF THE KING. Peter Jackson made three good movies.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#25 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 07:15 PM

i put 'CHAOS' as my religion.

why do you people get ROTK 9 days before us?
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Posted 18 December 2003 - 03:36 AM

QUOTE (barend @ Dec 17 2003, 07:15 PM)
why do you people get ROTK 9 days before us?

No idea. Quite stupid, really. Seeing as they obviously have to have prints made for you (it'll run more than nine days here), there's no reason not to have a same-day international release.

I've seen it twice now, but as an act of selfless solidarity, I won't see it again until your country has had a crack at it. tongue.gif
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#27 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 09:29 AM

since I'm anxious to wait 'til ep. 3 bad reviews come in to view that hogwash, waiting your nine days (for a worthy film btw) would be a selfless thing to do. Pray tell, Barend. what is your release date? you're in oz, right?
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#28 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 07:51 PM

December 26 (AKA "boxing day")

1 week from this exact second! ohmy.gif

and yes i'm from the 51st state of Australia.
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#29 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 10:14 PM

I'll consider it an advent discipline. I'm wanting to re-view the fellowship and 2towers anyway and this way I can pace myself. (If I'm wired on Christmas Night and go then, it'll be 12/26 where you are. several family stops on the 25th so that's not likely... tongue.gif ) I'm curious if any forum members did the marathon?

Incidentally, B, my musical hero is Neil from NZ
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Posted 19 December 2003 - 12:44 AM

this weekend i'm watching the 2 EEs at my friends place with super dooper sound system home cinema and giant widescreen TV. biggrin.gif



Neil from NZ? Neil from NZ?
Neil Finn? huh.gif
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