[civilian_number_two]

I agree that the pod race needed set-up. Wish it had had one. I could have writen one without trying. Lucas on the other hand could not, but thought he could. Hence his setup, which is stupid. Wish he had tried. Might have been a good idea to have put more than a weekend into plotting out the film, given that he had twenty years.

How about this: The death Star came out of hyperspace on the far side of the planet because at that time the moon was between the planet and its sun, and we all know you can't come out of hyerspace between a planet and its sun. Is this belied by the film itself? Someone take a look at it for jariten, and see whether the rebels were flying on the night side or the daylight side of the moon. If it's night when they take off, then yippee! But if it's daylight, then they're flying away from the Death Star (unless they fly all the way around the moon and the planet; any evidence of anything in background shots? Chef; I know you watched the moves recently )

I agree that the insane heroics of Padme and Anikin require suspension of disbelief. Too bad the heroics of Luke and Ben created no precedent for superheroism like that. Sure, Luke controlled his leap from his speederbike so he wasn't hurt, and sure Leia didn't die when she crashed. But he never did much more than that, and Leia did lose consciousness. Add to which this nonsense occured in JEDI, when the rot was already setting in (love the scene in that Ewok movie where the Ewok hang-glides down to catch a girl who is FALLING!). Before JEDI, there's none of ths casual disregard. And hang on! She fell out of the ship so we could see Anikin torn between love and duty? That's the best Lucas can do? That's just stupid.

Love your observation about the bathrooms. I wondered that about the Falcon as a kid, when I put together a 1/72 model of it (complete with lights in the cockpit!). No toilet. I wondered "do they really think I can't handle a toilet?"

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 06 October 2004 - 05:41 AM

[jariten]

And hang on! She fell out of the ship so we could see Anikin torn between love and duty? That's the best Lucas can do? That's just stupid.

Lucas needed a scene where padme, and anakins attachment to her, brings him directly into conflict with Obi Wan, and his general jedi duties (which anakin was about to drop for her). why not put it in a scene where the dramatic tension is already running high? plus of course, they needed her out of the way of the lightsabre fight at the end. i think that big fight between obi and ani contains some of the best, most involving dialogue of the film.

[Just your average movie goer]

Might have been a good idea to have put more than a weekend into plotting out the film, given that he had twenty years.

This is something that I often feel when we talk about the prequels, Civilian. I'm glad you mentioned it. This guy had twenty years to come up with something and this is the result?


As for the fighters coming out in Star Wars to attack the Death Star, as someone who's seen the film well over a thousand times, I can report without any doubt that the fighters come out on the daylight side of Yavin.

I still don't think the Death Star had lightspeed capability. Just thinking about it going at lightspeed seems laughable.

I agree that the insane heroics of Padme and Anikin require suspension of disbelief. Too bad the heroics of Luke and Ben created no precedent for superheroism like that.

This is a very good point. One of the biggest problems for the average adult viewing the prequels is that these things do not follow the same ground rules that were laid out in the original films.

[Despondent]

but theres something almost everyday about it- like these kind of amazing acts are part of the jedis daily life

If it were Spider-man, I would've accepted it. Regardless of the fact I cannot accept that PP has true web slinging ability coarsing through his veins. I read your "everyday" reference as that which defines all the eye-rolling going on in that scene, ("sorry master...") on Both sides of the screen.

By the way on bathrooms, shouldn't we see Jar-jar just "go" every now and then, like horses do? Wait, he wears pants. What about ewoks? Suppose I'll have to hold my disbelief.

[Garth Vader]

the only thing that ever bothered me was that the rebels and and the empire seemed a bit too small in size to be having a "galactic war", considering the sheer magnitude of space, that's only the main thing which requires suspension of disbelief in SW.

[azerty]

Also, if "a fighter that size couldn't get this deep into space on it's own", how does Luke get to Dagobah in an X wing, or any of the small rebel ships get to the rendezvous outside the galaxy? Plus the Death Star is big enough to have any kind of engine they want. I assume it went slower than the Falcon because it get's to Yavin later than the good guys. How much later, anyone can say. But I have always figured that the whole ANH story only takes a couple of days maximum. Monday morning is the opening battle, Monday afternoon the Jawas get the robots, Tuesday afternoon Luke gets the message, Wednesday morning he finds Obiwan, gets to the Cantina for lunch, Death Star by the afternoon, and the Death Star is toast by Wednesday night.

Where does yoda keep his shipped stashed on Dagobah, or did he hitch a lift with the vogons? How does Vader know he has a son suddenly by ESB when he didn't seem to notice in ANH? Felt Obi wan's presence sure enough on the Death Star.

And when some jedi knights discover professional bicycle racing and start blood doping and using super-midichlorian EPO injections, the integalactic organizing committee are going to have to take some jedi licences away.

[Garth Vader]

Also, if "a fighter that size couldn't get this deep into space on it's own", how does Luke get to Dagobah in an X wing, or any of the small rebel ships get to the rendezvous outside the galaxy? Plus the Death Star is big enough to have any kind of engine they want. I assume it went slower than the Falcon because it get's to Yavin later than the good guys. How much later, anyone can say. But I have always figured that the whole ANH story only takes a couple of days maximum. Monday morning is the opening battle, Monday afternoon the Jawas get the robots, Tuesday afternoon Luke gets the message, Wednesday morning he finds Obiwan, gets to the Cantina for lunch, Death Star by the afternoon, and the Death Star is toast by Wednesday night.

Where does yoda keep his shipped stashed on Dagobah, or did he hitch a lift with the vogons? How does Vader know he has a son suddenly by ESB when he didn't seem to notice in ANH? Felt Obi wan's presence sure enough on the Death Star.

And when some jedi knights discover professional bicycle racing and start blood doping and using super-midichlorian EPO injections, the integalactic organizing committee are going to have to take some jedi licences away.

i guess the x-wing has lightspeed for luke to travel to Dagobah and the tie fighter doesnt?

I've always wondered have fast the ships in star wars travel. In episode 1 they don't have lightspeed or enough fuel to travel far, but can still get to tatooine, I'm guessing that because tatooine is in the "outer rim" territory it must be quite far. They must travel upwards of millions of miles per hour on a very energy conserving fuel.

[ernesttomlinson]

But I have always figured that the whole ANH story only takes a couple of days maximum....Death Star by the afternoon, and the Death Star is toast  by Wednesday night.

I agree with you up to this point. While all of the events of the first three-fourths of the movie clearly follow each other very quickly (part of the reason that the story works so well--you're barely out of one adventure by the time you get to the next), there's no clear indication of how long it took the Falcon to get to the rebel base. It's not really important to the story, though.

Felt Obi wan's presence sure enough on the Death Star.

A sudden thought. Who's to say that it was Obi-Wan's presence he felt?

Well, in truth, I have to be realistic and accede to the most likely explanation: "Star Wars" was never really meant to be a trilogy or series of any kind. Or, even if it was, Lucas hadn't really thought past the first installment. A lot of SF and fantasy series are like that; I've never heard, for example, anyone recommend starting to read Terry Pratchett's Discworld series from the beginning. (Most people I've met recommend starting with "Wyrd Sisters" that is, I think, the sixth book. I've never read any of them, mind you, although I did buy "Nanny Ogg's Cookbook" and talked to Pratchett for about ten seconds.) "The Lord of the Rings" is the big exception because its division into three books is almost entirely arbitrary; Tolkien never imagined it that way.

And, if I may quote an old rule and apply it to "The Phantom Menace", everyone knows that the worst book in a trilogy is the fourth one.

[azerty]

Interesting point...

Is the order that the films were released the order that they were meant to be seen, or should they be seen by episode number? (I mean if you even care about anything other than 4 of course)

Off the subject slightly. I notice that the modern release of the Narnia books have put the stories in chronological order rather than publication date. Far less compelling that way I think, and same with the whole star wars thing.

[jariten]

Also, if "a fighter that size couldn't get this deep into space on it's own", how does Luke get to Dagobah in an X wing, or any of the small rebel ships get to the rendezvous outside the galaxy?

yes, but again, it probably doesnt do too well to dwell on stuff like this. i mean in a message board yes (gives us something to do until Sith comes out), but allowing it to hamper your enjoyment of the film is probably going about 4 steps too far (you can quote me on applying that approach to every film in the series)

ps (wasnt applying that to you azerty, just in general.)

about viewing order- Lucas (and me) would say the obvious 1-6, but i i suppose thats up to you.

incidentally, when the prequel haters have kids, how will you expose them to SW??

This post has been edited by jariten: 08 October 2004 - 12:16 AM

[civilian_number_two]

As a pretentious little ten-year-old, I read the Narnia books in order of their publication, not in chronological order. I think they show their strengths (and weaknesses, dear God) more that way.

My faves of course are "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" and "The Magician's Nephew."

I will not introduce any kids to STAR WARS. They can learn about it the way I did -on the street. I will however, make sure they read the Narnia books.

[ernesttomlinson]

I am a great Narnia fan and, indeed, of C. S. Lewis in general. I agree with almost all sensible persons that the Narnian books should be read in publication order. The fact that they're not labelled that way you can blame on Douglas Gresham, Lewis's son-in-law and one of the biggest horse's asses I've ever encountered. (I know this because I've had some first-hand experience of him on Lewis newsgroups and mailing lists.) Ask him about the ordering of the Narnian books and he flies into a temper.

I don't like playing favourites with the books; they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Most influential on me, however, was "The Silver Chair".

[Just your average movie goer]

I quite liked The Horse and His Boy... and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. The Silver Chair was good but it was a little too grim for my tastes... especially finding out that Prince Caspian's wife was killed by a serpent at the start of the story. That was a bit rough. The Last Battle however... that just seemed to completely lose it. It was kind of like the Beatles after they went to India.