[Helena]

we`re told that they need a new hyperdrive. Qui Gon first makes the decision to go to Tatooine, then he first tries "one of the smaller dealers", actions which suggest that the parts they need are fairly readily available. again, its possible that `J type 327 Nubian` or whatever is a fairly common type of ship. as for wattos comments about them being unable to find the parts elsewhere, they may or may not have been true. the reason that Qui Gon sticks with Wattos shop is because he wants to help Anakin and Shmi.

If the parts are fairly readily available, why does only Watto sell them - especially if he's one of the smaller dealers? As for wanting to help Anakin, Qui-Gon doesn't decide to do that until after Anakin invites them home, which is a long time after Watto first refuses his money - the Jedi could have tried other dealers in the meantime, rather than searching for something to exchange. And for that matter he could have got the parts from someone else (using the mind-trick, if necessary) and still tried to help the Skywalkers.

why not? that stikes me as the kind of thing Watto could do, and the kind of place where you would expect that kind of thing to happen.

Look, these are spaceships we're talking about. I seriously doubt that you can just take a part out of one, tinker around with it a bit, then stick it into another, unless the ships are very similar to start with. In any case it's irrelevent, since Watto specifically says that the parts he has are 'Nubian' - i.e. from that type of spaceship.

Tattoine was the closest planet to them. the hyperdrive was leaking. and the Jedi didnt complain about the Hutts, only Panaka did.

?? after their ship got damaged they were forced to make a choice about where to land, Tattoine was the closest option.

Tatooine was the best option they had. they had to act quickly.

No one ever actually says anything like this. All they say is that 'there's not enough power to get us to Coruscant', not 'we have to land quickly before the ship crashes' or anything along those lines. No one even suggests that there are any other potentially suitable planets nearby.

"its small, out of the way, poor. The Federation have no presence there"

"How can you be sure?"

"Its controlled by the Hutts"

"You cant take her Royal Highness there, the Hutts are gangsters!"

so, not only had Panaka never heard of Tatooine, but the Jedi hadnt either. Qui Gon read the Hutt info off the screen, and Obi had to explain about it to Panaka. Panaka had heard of the Hutts, granted, but their reputation was obviosuly fairly far flung, and of course they must have operated on worlds other than Tatooine.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that bit. Note, however, that the Jedi are not happy about the Hutts either - Obi-Wan says 'it's risky, but there's no alternative' (my italics). Which suggests that there are no other planets in the vicinity.

And before you say that the other planets are controlled by the Trade Federation, remember you're the one who claims that these planets are too remote to have contact with the Republic. So why would the Trade Federation, which is part of the Republic, have a presence there?

again, we are given zero information on this. but i think its reasonable to assume that theres some kind of standardisation in the way hyperdrives or whatever are created, and that a lot of people would need them to repair their ships, and so watto, being a dealer, made it his buisiness to aquire these parts.

Why should there be standardisation between two areas that have virtually no contact with each other? Imagine that, say, flying cars were developed entirely seperately in both America and Japan - there may well be be similarities between them, but you certainly wouldn't expect to be able to take parts out of one and stick them into the other. And as I said before, it's made clear that they need a specific type of hyperdrive which only Watto sells (or so he claims); if these things were common, Qui-Gon would be unlikely to believe that no other dealers had them. Besides, it's not just a hyperdrive that they need, but other 'Nubian' parts as well - and Watto makes it clear that he has parts for exactly this type of ship (i.e. Nubian).

The thing is that all these things would make a lot more sense if Tatooine was visited fairly regularly by Republic ships, which is what I assumed in the first place. The only problem with this is, of course, that there appears to be no way of exchanging Republic money on Tatooine. I don't know why you keep trying to come up with ever more convoluted and unlikely explanations for this, rather than accepting it for what it obviously is: a gaping plot hole.

[Helena]

The thing that ticks me off the most with minor inconsistecies such as the one being discussed here, (I say minor because I feel there are far worse crimes in the PT) is that they could have been fixed so very easily. It is beyond me how Lucas can miss details like this. Doesn't he review the script? Doesn't anyone? This is one of the main reasons I think the man is simply stupid. He seems incapable of logic reasoning. And it isn't quantum physics were talking here. It's everyday common sense.

I don't regard this particular issue as a 'minor' inconsistency, actually - the Jedi being unable to use Republic money on Tatooine is a very important plot element. It's the reason why they risk Anakin's life on a pod race, and why they leave his mother behind (and we all know what that leads to). And the problems with it stick out like a sore thumb, for me at least.

[HK 47]

I don't regard this particular issue as a 'minor' inconsistency, actually - the Jedi being unable to use Republic money on Tatooine is a very important plot element. It's the reason why they risk Anakin's life on a pod race, and why they leave his mother behind (and we all know what that leads to).

Well, if you put it that way, I stand corrected. Although I didn't get the impression that Shmi even wanted to leave. "My place is here...". And if you take the argument further: The reason the Jedi don't bring her along is because George is an idiot. No real Jedi would ever leave the mother of a new apprentice in slavery. Republic creds be damned!

[Helena]

Well, I think she'd probably have liked to leave if she had the chance. I got the impression the line about 'my place is here' just meant that she was accepting of her fate.

[azerty]

I can't believe I am defending Lucas...

I always assumed that Tatooine was like Sicily, middle of nowhere but where all the gangsters are from, and everybody knows it. Or Baghdad - a shithole but a good place to get hold of some illegal weapons. So maybe Watto does have a lot of stuff lying around, and since you can get from Naboo to Tatooine without hyperdrive, they must be neighbors, so why not have Naboobian parts? Naboo must be like Malta - even more the middle of nowhere, but home to the Templar Knights and key to the Med in WW2, maltese cross Spitfire squadrons etc. Nothing intersting happens at the center of beuaracracy, only at the fringes.

As for galactic credits, I always assumed it was like a credit card where every transaction was recorded somewhere. Cash is the only way to go when you are dealing with dodgy customers.

And Watto was lying about being the only shop with parts, like any good third world shopkeeper would. Probably everybody had parts. Like what kind of spaceship industry does Tatooine have other than Naboo stuff?

[Ferris Wiel]

Okay, I am afraid that I have been tempted and swayed to the dark side of the PT after viewing the MagnoliaFan edit of TPM - "Balance of the Force." As such I can accept a few things more readily than I once did:

Actually, there very much is something to suggest this. Qui-Gon specifically asks for parts for a 'J-Type 327 Nubian' and later on he specifically asks for a 'T-14 hyperdrive'. If ship parts were interchangable, why would he bother asking for a particular type of part, and why would it be so difficult to get the right type of hyperdrive? As for 'modifying' parts from one ship to fit in another, surely it couldn't possibly be that easy!

If I go into a computer shop with a guy behind the counter who knows his business I can ask: "Hey, I'm looking for something for my K7S5A motherboard." Affirming that he does, in fact, carry parts for boards like that, he will then inquire exactly what, in particular I might be seeking, I then respond, "I need an AMD Duron processor - 750 MHz, got any?" Now, an AMD Duron processor will work with a variety of boards, but not all boards and he may or may not have any of that variety.

Assume for a moment, as I am willing to, that the "T-14" is built by Incom (I understand this is all EU bullshit, but go with me), the manufacturer of the X-Wings and T-16 Skyhoppers, assuming also that the company has no real political ties and trades equally with all. If the ship were a Nubian (not necessarily a Naboo built ship, perhaps from a company called Nubi or Nubia - or even an unwitting reference to "Chasing Amy"), maybe it was designed to utilize Incom parts, much like IBM computers use AMD processors and Dells use Intel processors. (Taking this a step further, depending on the architecture of the chip there may be crossover for particular models where one machine can use both Intel and AMD chips, meanwhile certain models from a particular manufacturer may not be so capable). As such, it could be possible that a T-14 hyperdrive, while a difficult part to find due to either its expense, age, general rarity, etc. could be found in Watto's shop.

Let's also get something else clear, (more EU bullshit) according to what I have read, the hyperdrive for the Millenium Falcon is actually cobbled together from three different hyperdrive systems in a fashion which is ill-advised per the regulatory bodies (meaning the ship wouldn't be street legal if it were a car), but also denotes that with a particular level of technical mastery or understanding (as Anakin is alleged to have), that one could piece together a workable hyperdrive from the right parts and make it function. So again, technically, Anakin could have built a hyperdrive that was T-14 compatible.

Sigh... so now Tatooine is part of a cluster of planets that busily trade with each other, but have virtually no contact with the Republic. Right. If that is the case, why didn't the Jedi land on one of these other planets for repairs, rather than whining about having to take the Queen to a planet controlled by the Hutts? We know they didn't just happen to break down there because Qui-Gon states that they are deliberately heading for Tatooine. OK, so maybe it was the nearest planet, but you might think that someone would at least have suggested one of the others.

I wouldn't make that assertion, how about this, Tattooine and adjoining systems are controlled by the Hutts - which the Republic, as allegedly tied up with "bureaucracy" as they are, would allow to happen, simply because they couldn't piece together a majority vote in the Galactic Senate to decide to halt the Hutts from controlling the system. So, instead, you have two factions with a mutual "respect" (much akin to the 5 families in the mafia) controlling a variety of systems all in the same region. Perhaps Naboo was just on the edge of those systems, or perhaps Naboo was separated from the rest of the Core planets by these systems or all other planets and systems nearby were all Trade Federation and Hutt controlled. The Hutts would have no reason to be in touch with the Senate if they were as independent during the Republic days as they remained during the Empire. Thus, Republic credits would be of no value. Therefore, Watto, even if he knew of somebody who would accept Republic credits, would have to trade them off at a loss.

Come to that, how come Captain Panaka knows that Tatooine is controlled by 'an alliance of gangs called the Hutts'? What reason is there for a guy from Naboo to know about this small, isolated, non-Republic planet? Apparently, either he's made a study of it for some reason or they happen to have with them a database on the governmental system of every planet in the galaxy, including ones that aren't part of the Republic and don't trade with it.

Again, I go to the mats on this one: "Don't go to that particular part of town because it's controlled by the Corleone family and they don't take kindly to people like us." The same with the galaxy, don't go to that system, the Hutts control that whole set of systems.

Also, if these systems are so isolated from the Republic, how come people there use the same type of ship? Unless the planets were colonised relatively recently by Republic settlers (why? And wouldn't they still accept Republic money?), surely they would have their own ships. You certainly wouldn't expect Watto to have 'lots' of parts for a type of ship that obviously originates in the Republic.

See my reply at the start.

Apologies, but I can at least suspend my disbelief this far.

--FW

[ernesttomlinson]

I may have missed it but I don't think anyone has suggested the obvious: why do Qui-Gon et al. have to fix their old ship? Why tie themselves down to needing a particular part for the "Nubian" (ugh) vessel? After all, Obi-Wan was easily able to bribe a certain rascally, sarcastic smuggler into giving him and Luke transport off Tatooine. Why couldn't Qui-Gon have done the same, possibly using money from the sale of the Nubian ship if he couldn't find someone he could dupe into taking Republic credits? (Of course I know the real answer; otherwise Lucas couldn't have designed that pod race tailor-made to go into a Lucasarts video game.)

[civilian_number_two]

Thank you ernesttomlinson, and welcome to the forum.

I have suggested that very thing about a hundred times.

Here's how it played out at Skywalker Ranch:

1. Anikin is in a pod race, with game and merchandising tie-ins. LOCKED story element.

2. Um ... ok ... Anikin needs to race to buy his own freedom.

3. Um ... ok ... Tatooine has an active slave trade.

4. Um ... ok ... The heroes are there b/c their hyperdrive is broken and they need it repaired (ignore fact this device was used in EMPIRE and is therefore dull).

5. Um ... ok ... Heroes can't repair hyperdrive b/c they have no money.

6. Um ... ok ... Someone gets the idea to bet on the boy's race, to win a new hyperdrive, and to free the boy from slavery!

7. Second-guess the audience questions time: uh ... the only thing I can see is the bit about the queen of a planet not having any money. Ok: How about her money is no good here, foreign-exchange and all. So ... there's this system of about a million planets, and they all share a common currency, and poeple who frequent Tatooine must also go there, but they won't use the federation money, JUST BECAUSE! Sure, even people in Iraq will trade in US dollars, but I doubt anyone will actually, you know, think about that.

OK: get that pod race done. Oh, you already have! GREAT!


PS: "The Hutts control this system of planets" is about as dumb as "Jango Fett is father to thousands of Stormtroopers, and was killed by a Jedi knight." It's taking small OT elements and instillig them with too much importance. The story of Obi-Wan and Anikin and the fall of the Jedi, IMO, is given short shrift in favour of all of these other ridiculous backstory elements.

[Despondent]

Great posts everybody.

I saw a commercial for this new Star Wasr Battlefronts video? the one where You can choose which side to play. Every battle. You choose how to play.

I choose not at all.

[Xombie]

The lack of any form of currency exchange on a planet with spaceports is stupidity squared. The very fact watto has a HYPERDRIVE implies that people on tattooine go to other planets or that people on tatooine have gone to other planets. But why bother since apparently not one single frickin individual on the planet has figured out that he can make a profit by providing this relatively easy and hugely lucrative service? Why would ANYONE invest his capital to build a spaceport if he had no intention of accepting foreign money and there was no way for foreigners to exchange it?

[Helena]

I can't believe I am defending Lucas...

I always assumed that Tatooine was like Sicily, middle of nowhere but where all the gangsters are from, and everybody knows it.  Or Baghdad - a shithole but a good place to get hold of some illegal weapons.  So maybe Watto does have a lot of stuff lying around, and since you can get from Naboo to Tatooine without hyperdrive, they must be neighbors, so why not have Naboobian parts?  Naboo must be like Malta - even more the middle of nowhere, but home to the Templar Knights and key to the Med in WW2, maltese cross Spitfire squadrons etc.  Nothing intersting happens at the center of beuaracracy, only at the fringes.

Actually, this is yet another plot hole. Naboo is part of the Republic, and jariten (not me) claims that Tatooine is so far from the Republic that Republic pilots hardly ever land there (which is the only conceivable reason why the Jedi cannot change their money there). So how is this possible if it's near Naboo and they trade with each other? Neither the Queen nor Captain Panaka have even heard of Tatooine when Qui-Gon suggests landing there, which makes it unlikely that they are close to each other, let alone neighbours - and yet, as you say, the ship can reach it without hyperdrive. This doesn't make sense - unless what happened was that the hyperdrive was still functioning, but not well enough to get them to Coruscant.

As for galactic credits, I always assumed it was like a credit card where every transaction was recorded somewhere.  Cash is the only way to go when you are dealing with dodgy customers.

If it's a 'credit card' why does Qui-Gon say that he has 20000 of them? And regardless, there should be some way to change money if Republic citizens regularly do business there.

And Watto was lying about being the only shop with parts, like any good third world shopkeeper would.  Probably everybody had parts.  Like what kind of spaceship industry does Tatooine have other than Naboo stuff?

Very probable. But in that case, why did Qui-Gon not try one of the other dealers? Unless there was some good reason to believe Watto, Qui-Gon now looks incredibly stupid.

Ferris Wiel, you're doing exactly what jariten is - dreaming up enormously convoluted scenarios to try and explain the obvious plot holes in the films. About the first one, regardless of whether 'Nubia' is a planet or a company or whatever, it's clearly part of the Republic because the Queen's ship is Nubian. So how does Watto end up with a lot of 'Nubian' parts, unless Tatooine is close enough to the Republic that Republic ships land there on a fairly regular basis?

About all the neighbouring planets being controlled by the Hutts - well, of course we have no proof that this isn't the case. But it still doesn't explain why none of the crew even suggests visiting any of these planets. All it would have taken was a couple of lines of dialogue: 'Aren't there any other planets near here?' 'Yes, quite a few, but they're all controlled by the Hutts and Tatooine is the closest.'

Btw Civilian, I very much agree with you. The only real explanation is 'it fitted the plot', and it's not a good one.

Xombie - another good point. Even if Tatooine was too far from the Republic for them to accept credits, there should at least have been some kind of foreign exchange if Tatooine does any trade at all (even if it's just some guy in a back alley). Unless all the local planets use a unified currency (the Hutt, perhaps? ) But apparently the Jedi never think of even trying to exchange their money - they're happier to sit about saying 'a solution will present itself'.

This post has been edited by Helena: 29 September 2004 - 04:47 AM

[jariten]

If the parts are fairly readily available, why does only Watto sell them - especially if he's one of the smaller dealers?

theres nothing to suggest he does, except his dodgy word. but i`ll get to that in a second.

As for wanting to help Anakin, Qui-Gon doesn't decide to do that until after Anakin invites them home, which is a long time after Watto first refuses his money - the Jedi could have tried other dealers in the meantime, rather than searching for something to exchange. And for that matter he could have got the parts from someone else (using the mind-trick, if necessary) and still tried to help the Skywalkers.

heres a rundown of the events in the film. qui gon talks to watto, who refuses to accept currancy which is worthless to him. he tells qui theres no other way he can get the parts. qui gives him a "yeah right, ok mate" look then wanders off. they head back into tattoine to mull over other options. then anakin helps JJ, and then we head into the qui gon helping anakin story line. thats why he sticks with Watto, to help anakin. he knew there must have been other options available, and that watto was probably lying, but hes determined to help this kid. after the dinner scene, which comes immediatly after, theres no turning back as far as qui is concerned.

Look, these are spaceships we're talking about. I seriously doubt that you can just take a part out of one, tinker around with it a bit, then stick it into another, unless the ships are very similar to start with.

why is this so hard to believe or take in? it really is not much of a stretch for me to suspend my disbelief this far, esp compared with what we`ve seen in all the sw films up to this point.

In any case it's irrelevent, since Watto specifically says that the parts he has are 'Nubian' - i.e. from that type of spaceship.

in fact, he says "nubian, we have lots of that". can you accuratly describe to me, from the evidence were given, what a `nubian` is, or how many types of ships are `nubian`, or how common or rare they are?

No one ever actually says anything like this. All they say is that 'there's not enough power to get us to Coruscant', not 'we have to land quickly before the ship crashes' or anything along those lines. No one even suggests that there are any other potentially suitable planets nearby.

"the hyperdrive is leaking!"

sounds pretty serious to me.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that bit. Note, however, that the Jedi are not happy about the Hutts either - Obi-Wan says 'it's risky, but there's no alternative' (my italics). Which suggests that there are no other planets in the vicinity.

theres no such dialogue in the film.

And before you say that the other planets are controlled by the Trade Federation, remember you're the one who claims that these planets are too remote to have contact with the Republic. So why would the Trade Federation, which is part of the Republic, have a presence there?

they go to tatooine because it happened to be the closest planet to them. simple as that.

Why should there be standardisation between two areas that have virtually no contact with each other? Imagine that, say, flying cars were developed entirely seperately in both America and Japan - there may well be be similarities between them, but you certainly wouldn't expect to be able to take parts out of one and stick them into the other

but we arnt dealing with `real life` were dealing with fantastic concepts that are explained to us only in enough detail to keep the story moving along. if you want to tear the film apart to this extent and start creating hypothosis like this how can you enjoy any of the star wars films which are all based around purely fictional and equally fantastic concepts? if i state parts from one ship can be used in another, or tinkered with so it becomes possible for them to be used in another, is this really, honestly such an improbable concept to take on board?

edit-

im not ignoring your other points helena, its just that my computers gone nuts and keeps logging off so im trying to keep my posts as short as possible...

This post has been edited by jariten: 29 September 2004 - 10:08 AM

[Helena]

heres a rundown of the events in the film. qui gon talks to watto, who refuses to accept currancy which is worthless to him. he tells qui theres no other way he can get the parts. qui gives him a "yeah right, ok mate" look then wanders off. they head back into tattoine to mull over other options. then anakin helps JJ, and then we head into the qui gon helping anakin story line. thats why he sticks with Watto, to help anakin. he knew there must have been other options available, and that watto was probably lying, but hes determined to help this kid. after the dinner scene, which comes immediatly after, theres no turning back as far as qui is concerned.

What happens is that Qui-Gon gives up trying to figure out any other options ('Another solution will present itself') and then Anakin helps Jar Jar. There was no indication that Qui-Gon was interested in Anakin before that - he had barely even spoken to him. The Jedi had time to think of other alternatives, like 'Let's look for another dealer', but they didn't.

why is this so hard to believe or take in? it really is not much of a stretch for me to suspend my disbelief this far, esp compared with what we`ve seen in all the sw films up to this point.

Well, speak for yourself.

in fact, he says "nubian, we have lots of that". can you accuratly describe to me, from the evidence were given, what a `nubian` is, or how many types of ships are `nubian`, or how common or rare they are?

You're missing my point. Whatever 'Nubian' means, and however common this type of ship is, it doesn't make sense for the same type of ship to be used in two areas that are too far apart to trade with each other. How would this come about? Did they both develop exactly the same type of ship seperately, and both happen to call it 'Nubian'?

"the hyperdrive is leaking!"

sounds pretty serious to me.

Why? The hyperdrive is only necessary if they want to go into hyperspace, i.e. for long-distance travel. They need it fixed because they have to get to Coruscant, not because it's causing any immediate problems.

theres no such dialogue in the film.

Well, it's definitely in the script. Could it have been left out of the film? This is the exchange:

OBI-WAN: Here, Master. Tatooine... It's small, out of the way, poor...
The Trade Federation has no presence there.

CAPT. PANAKA: How can you be sure?

QUI-GON: It's controlled by the Hutts...

CAPT. PANAKA: The Hutts??

OBI-WAN: It's risky...but there's no alternative.

CAPT. PANAKA: You can't take Her Royal Highness there! The Hutts are
gangsters... If they discovered her...

It's too long since I saw TPM (and, of course, it was only the once) so I can't remember if this dialogue was in the film or not.

they go to tatooine because it happened to be the closest planet to them. simple as that.

Firstly, no one says that. It's mentioned that it's small, out of the way, poor, and non-TF, but not that it's the closest planet - although this would be self-evident if there were no other planets nearby. However, you insist there are. Secondly, even if it is the closest it's also clearly dangerous, and yet no one suggests any alternative whatsoever. Even once they arrive on Tatooine and find they can't buy anything there.

but we arnt dealing with `real life` were dealing with fantastic concepts that are explained to us only in enough detail to keep the story moving along. if you want to tear the film apart to this extent and start creating hypothosis like this how can you enjoy any of the star wars films which are all based around purely fictional and equally fantastic concepts? if i state parts from one ship can be used in another, or tinkered with so it becomes possible for them to be used in another, is this really, honestly such an improbable concept to take on board?

I'm not the one creating hypotheses, you are. I'm just going by what we're actually told in the film. And no, I can accept that this technology exists in the first place because a) it's clearly a kind of 'alternate universe' and B) this is a very advanced society. But there are things that don't make sense even in an alternate universe, and one of these is that two ships developed entirely seperately could swap major parts in this way - it simply defies probability to an extent that makes it impossible to believe. It's precisely because the technology is so advanced that I find it so hard to believe you could mess around with it in this way.

This post has been edited by Helena: 29 September 2004 - 01:34 PM

[jariten]

What happens is that Qui-Gon gives up trying to figure out any other options ('Another solution will present itself') and then Anakin helps Jar Jar. There was no indication that Qui-Gon was interested in Anakin before that - he had barely even spoken to him. The Jedi had time to think of other alternatives, like 'Let's look for another dealer', but they didn't.

thats right. qui gon gives up on watto, then wanders off to think it over. then they meet anakin again. then the sandstorm forces them to anakins place. then qui gon believes anakin to be a jedi, so they come up with a plan to kill two birds with one stone. there was the space of about one scene between leaving wattos shop and meeting anakin, so no, qui did not have a lot of time to think over much else.

You're missing my point. Whatever 'Nubian' means, and however common this type of ship is, it doesn't make sense for the same type of ship to be used in two areas that are too far apart to trade with each other. How would this come about? Did they both develop exactly the same type of ship seperately, and both happen to call it 'Nubian'?

but what i was saying was that we are given zero info about this. like i keep saying, in movies of this type which are entirly based around fantastic, imaginary concepts, we are given only enough information to keep the story moving. we dont know what type of part can be used where, because we dont need to know. but from the limited evidence we have, it seems like `nubian` is something thats either fairly readily available, is a common type of ship, or something that watto has the brains to figure out how to modify (like all good, shifty scrap merchants and dealers). if its a common type of ship (and why wouldnt it be?) then it would be used by everyone from space bums to the republic.

Why? The hyperdrive is only necessary if they want to go into hyperspace, i.e. for long-distance travel. They need it fixed because they have to get to Coruscant, not because it's causing any immediate problems.

well it sounds serious to me. serious enough so they immediatly discuss plans for landing, repair and refueling. why not Tattoine? for all the evidence Obi Wan gives about why its a good choice, plus it has two (or more) big spaceports where they`d have a decent chance of getting what they want.

It's too long since I saw TPM (and, of course, it was only the once) so I can't remember if this dialogue was in the film or not.

ok fair enough. it wasnt in the film, no.

Firstly, no one says that. It's mentioned that it's small, out of the way, poor, and non-TF, but not that it's the closest planet - although this would be self-evident if there were no other planets nearby. However, you insist there are

ok Helena, if that doesnt work for you, then think of it this way. is it too big a leap of imagination/logic to assume that if Tatooine wasnt the closest planet, then it at least is the closest planet that has the potential to stock the stuff they need, and have no Federation presence?? what would it take to make you satisfied? another scene in which its explained that theres no closer planets which might have the stuff, and then another scene where they look through star charts to make sure? they went to the nearest place that suited their needs. it happened to be tatooine.

But there are things that don't make sense even in an alternate universe, and one of these is that two ships developed entirely seperately could swap major parts in this way

i know what youre saying, but beleive it or not, without any evidence presented to the contrary, whats not to believe? cars developed in different countries have many of the same basic conponents right? why then, could spaceships also not have a general `standardised` way of being built? behind wattos shop there were hundreds of pieces of bits of ships and parts and what not. who knows how people build ships when they dont have the money and resourses that the republic do? through salvaving bits of damaged/unusable craft and using that to make `modified` ships of their own. hence, a ship might be knocked together with parts from republic ships and non republic ships, some ships might require `nubian` technology and some might not. isnt this what Han did?it makes sense for watto to have stuff like this in stock, dont you think?

[Helena]

thats right. qui gon gives up on watto, then wanders off to think it over. then they meet anakin again. then the sandstorm forces them to anakins place. then qui gon believes anakin to be a jedi, so they come up with a plan to kill two birds with one stone. there was the space of about one scene between leaving wattos shop and meeting anakin, so no, qui did not have a lot of time to think over much else.

But the point I’m trying to make is that no one, at any point, ever makes any other suggestions. When Obi-Wan was proposing selling off the Queen’s wardrobe, someone else could have chimed in saying ‘why don’t we look for another dealer’? or ‘why don’t we try to exchange our money’? But no one appears to think of these two very obvious alternatives, and Qui-Gon just gives up, saying in effect ‘Oh, something will turn up’. Which it does, luckily for him, but you’d think he’d at least have tried the obvious options first.

but what i was saying was that we are given zero info about this. like i keep saying, in movies of this type which are entirly based around fantastic, imaginary concepts, we are given only enough information to keep the story moving. we dont know what type of part can be used where, because we dont need to know. but from the limited evidence we have, it seems like `nubian` is something thats either fairly readily available, is a common type of ship, or something that watto has the brains to figure out how to modify (like all good, shifty scrap merchants and dealers). if its a common type of ship (and why wouldnt it be?) then it would be used by everyone from space bums to the republic.

jariten, it doesn’t matter how ‘common’ Nubian ships are: if this particular manufacturer is located within the Republic (which it clearly is, if Republic planets use it regularly), and Tatooine has almost no contact with the Republic, you’re not going to find any Nubian ships on Tatooine! Although something just occurred to me: if the ship manages to get from Naboo to Tatooine without hyperdrive, it can’t be all that far away. I think your theory just collapsed.

well it sounds serious to me. serious enough so they immediatly discuss plans for landing, repair and refueling. why not Tattoine? for all the evidence Obi Wan gives about why its a good choice, plus it has two (or more) big spaceports where they`d have a decent chance of getting what they want.

They have to repair and refuel so that they can get to Coruscant, but nothing they say suggests that the problem is particularly urgent. No one says ‘we have to land quickly’ or anything like that, just that ‘we don’t have enough power to get to Coruscant’. And there’s still no good reason why no one (especially Captain Panaka) even asks about other alternatives.

ok fair enough. it wasnt in the film, no.

Hmm. I wonder why not?

ok Helena, if that doesnt work for you, then think of it this way. is it too big a leap of imagination/logic to assume that if Tatooine wasnt the closest planet, then it at least is the closest planet that has the potential to stock the stuff they need, and have no Federation presence?? what would it take to make you satisfied? another scene in which its explained that theres no closer planets which might have the stuff, and then another scene where they look through star charts to make sure? they went to the nearest place that suited their needs. it happened to be tatooine.

Why wouldn’t any of the other planets have what they wanted if, as you say, most of Watto’s parts come from those planets? Tatooine may have spaceports but it doesn’t look like it has much of a ship-building industry. And if the planets are as remote as you claim, how could the TF have a presence on any of them? Anyway, as for what it would take to make me satisfied (well, slightly more satisfied), here’s a suggestion:

OBI-WAN: Here, Master. Tatooine... It's small, out of the way, poor...
The Trade Federation has no presence there.

CAPT. PANAKA: How can you be sure?

QUI-GON: It's controlled by the Hutts...

CAPT. PANAKA: The Hutts?? You can't take Her Royal Highness there! Is there no other alternative?

QUI-GON quickly checks the star chart again.

QUI-GON: There are several other planets nearby... but they are all controlled by the Hutts as well. Besides, Tatooine is the closest and we need to land as soon as possible.

CAPT. PANAKA: Oh, all right then.

That would take, what, all of five extra seconds? It certainly wouldn’t need several scenes. And it would make perfect sense, if you’re correct about there being other planets nearby.

i know what youre saying, but beleive it or not, without any evidence presented to the contrary, whats not to believe? cars developed in different countries have many of the same basic conponents right? why then, could spaceships also not have a general `standardised` way of being built? behind wattos shop there were hundreds of pieces of bits of ships and parts and what not. who knows how people build ships when they dont have the money and resourses that the republic do? through salvaving bits of damaged/unusable craft and using that to make `modified` ships of their own. hence, a ship might be knocked together with parts from republic ships and non republic ships, some ships might require `nubian` technology and some might not. isnt this what Han did?it makes sense for watto to have stuff like this in stock, dont you think?

Yes, current makes of car are similar, but only because communications between different parts of the world are so frequent. Imagine if shortly after people started manufacturing cars, America and Britain found themselves totally cut off from each other – do you think our car parts would be interchangeable today? And I’m still not sure you could necessarily take, say, an engine from one make of car and use it in another – anyone who knows about cars care to comment on this? As for the ‘Nubian’ technology, Watto specifically states that the parts he has are indeed ‘Nubian’, not just generic parts that can be used in any ship.

Jesus, I can’t believe I’m getting into such a long debate on this – and come to that, I can’t believe you are either. Like I say, all of these things make perfect sense if you just assume that Tatooine does have fairly frequent contact with the Republic – except, of course, for the fact that there’s no way to change Republic money there. It’s a glaring plot hole, but it doesn’t raise nearly as many questions as your attempt to explain it.

Lucas made a big mistake, that’s all there is to it. He’s a bad writer and he doesn’t bother to check for inconsistencies like this, which is why there are so many of them. I admire the effort you put into defending him, I really do, but I honestly don’t know why you bother when he clearly doesn’t give a stuff about it.