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Sympathy for the old school Star Wars fan. Pleased to meet you.

#1 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 03:40 AM

This is really for an audience of one Jariten but I guess anyone else who's interested can have a look.

I probably first saw the Star Wars movies when I was about six or seven and really fell in love with them. We recorded them from the television and I probably watched them well over a thousand times, and that's not an exaggeration.

We bought the Kenner action figures and other toys. I'd practice drawing the ships and writing my own little illustrated stories.

I can still remember how thrilled we all were when our parents gave us those toys. We have photos of all of us playing with them and we were so happy.

And I really remember well just the feeling of sheer joy when our father brought home the prerecorded VHS set. That was amazing.

Talk about bringing joy to little children - you should have seen the looks on our faces back then.





I can definitely remember a few years there when Star Wars was passing out of popularity. A lot of people were saying it was uncool. I was stuck up for it and told those people they didn't know what they were talking about. But I remember that all of us Star Wars fans were around and we all still loved these films as much as ever.

Any time one of the original Star Wars movies came on television, the whole country literally stayed in to watch it. So I knew that a lot more people still loved these movies than they were letting on.



Then sometime in the early nineties, Timothy Zahn wrote his famous Star Wars novels that continued the saga. I fell in love all over again. These novels were fantastic and they really took the story forward to new heights.

After that, I became as fanatic as I was in my childhood, rushing out to buy any books with the Star Wars logo - not for their own merits (and many of them were terrible) but because of the strength of Zahn's novels.



But the biggest thing about the books was the incredible worldwide success of the whole phenonomen - the world was back into Star Wars again. And with such renewed interest, it seemed that now may be the time that Lucas would choose to release the next movies.

And sure enough, we soon got the news. I was so excited. By this stage, I had grown disenfranchised with Return of the Jedi for its slapstick silliness, inconsistent tone, etc and I honestly believed that here was a chance to make a Star Wars movie that would be the equal of The Empire Strikes Back - epic in proportions, powerful and moving, a sweeping cinema classic...

A friend of mine at school said that when the new movie finally came out that we should go to see it together. We both really loved Star Wars and we both were so excited about the new film.

Of course, the hype started far too long before the actual film came out so when I saw The Phantom Menace, I was no longer in contact with my friend.

But I'm glad he wasn't there in the cinema with me. Do you know why? Because it was terrible enough already without seeing the bitter disappointment on his face as well. The disappointment around me was enough already as it was.

I felt as if I'd been kicked in the stomach. What was this? It wasn't Star Wars. It was completely out of line with the original films. It felt all wrong and I felt cheated. I knew what had happened. This was a commercial film made for little kids. You know it, Jariten. And I knew it then too.

Lucas didn't care about people like myself anymore.

I tried to get excited about Episode II though and I gave it every chance but it repeatedly disappointed and irritated me to no end. But no-one could say I didn't give it a chance. I gave it two chances just in case I had somehow imagined the whole thing the first time around. No, it really was that bad.



This really crushed my interest in Star Wars and I'm so lucky that Peter Jackson and his wonderful crew came in time to rescue us all with an alternative. Many of us owe Mr Jackson an enormous debt of gratitude.

Afterwards, I was pretty much not interested in Star Wars at all. I'd been betrayed. Lucas had basically just ditched me and all the other old school fans.

"Sorry guys, I've got a new audience now - little thirteen year old home boys."


One thing that got my attention about Star Wars however was hearing people praise the prequels. This made my blood boil. They were praising the things that had ruined these movies for everyone.

Let me explain something about the mind of an old school Star Wars fan. I know I speak for all of us here. When we hear somebody say "Episode II is even better than The Empire Strikes Back, man." we want to beat the shit out of them. That is just a terrible, terrible, terrible thing to say.

Disturbed by all of this, I sought solitude on the web and came across Chefelf's lists and this little community. And here, in the sanctuary of like-minded old school fans, I rediscovered my love of Star Wars.

That's why we're here, Jariten. We love Star Wars. And this is probably the best web community for old school fans like ourselves.

Now in amongst all of our discussions, there came a little bit of hope. George Lucas was going to release the original Star Wars trilogy on DVD.

On DVD!

We could watch the movies we love on DVD and be happy. It wouldn't matter what Lucas does to the prequels, we'd be fine. We all carry far superior versions of the prequels in our minds anyway. We would have the movies we love and George Lucas couldn't take that away.

But oh, I was wrong - he HAS taken that away. Quite deliberately. He said so himself. He doesn't like the old versions of the films so he won't let any of us watch them either (and don't tell me about that expense stuff - that's bullshit).

And what does he do to these DVDs? Is it just Greedo shooting first? No! Prequel elements! He's taken the things that we hate the most and put them into the movies we love.

This is THE WORST THING that Lucas has ever done to us.

I have the original versions of these films on video cassettes back in Australia. So I can enjoy them. But each time I watch them, that tape is going to stretch a little, the picture will deteroriate ever so slightly, as will the sound, and slowly, I will lose my only copies of these films.

Will I be able to show them to my children? I hope so. Will they be able to watch them a thousand times as I did? Probably not.

Is Lucas the biggest asshole in the history of cinema? A resounding YES.

In future, when you post your little comments about Lucas' rights and the prequels being canon now, try to be a little bit more considerate of us, the old school fans.

- Movie Goer
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#2 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE
In future, when you post your little comments...


bloody hell you can be condesending and infuriating at times!!!!!

i`m vaguely pleased that you created a whole thread for me to read, but i`m curious as to what effect you expected it to have on me. am i not a `real` star wars fan because i enjoyed the prequels? in your eyes, probably not. then it comes down to- how can we define what is a `real` fan and what isnt? heres the answer- a fan of a product is a person who enjoys it. i first saw star wars when i was about 7 (probably ROTJ) and ive loved it ever since. had all the toys, taped the films off TV at christmas, played star wars with my friends. i never got interested in the EU, but i watched and rewatched the films to death all through my teens. i was apprehensive about TPM. even more so when all the negative reviews started to come out. it got me pretty down, but i`ll never forget Star Wars summer `99, when i bought all the magazines with SW on the cover, looked at all the toys (but not the soundtrack CD, after being warned by a friend), but still i was worried. after opening night, here were my two conclusions.

1. is it better than episodes 4, 5 or 6? No.

2. did i enjoy watching it? Yes.

Then I saw it again. the bits i didnt like, well, i still didnt like them, but then the bits i did like got better and better- palpatine、 the battle droids, the neimoidians, darth mauls entrance, Naboo, the senate, Qui gon, watto, lightsabres, anakin and shmi, the podrace etc. etc. etc.

the same goes for AotC (which i prefer over 4 and 6). basically, the fact is that i am just as much a `hardcore`, whatever you want to call it, fan of SW as you, or anyone here. you seem to think that people who have a different opinion to you are wrong, or stupid or misguided. for simply believing in something thats different to you? is it hard for you to imagine that i enjoy watching AotC, just because you dont? honestly JYAMG, from someone as intelligent as you, I find it baffling. still though, i`m sticking around here, so you`ll have to put up with my "little comments" for a bit longer at least.
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE
i`m curious as to what effect you expected it to have on me. am i not a `real` star wars fan because i enjoyed the prequels?


Jariten, I don't think Movie Goer is saying your passion for Star Wars is less valid because you like the preqeuls! Are you a "real" fan? Yes I believe you are. Are we who are so disgusted with what Star Wars has become "real" fans? Yes and no. We are fans of what Star Wars originally was, but not fans of what Lucas has done to these once classic movies.

Movie Goer has stated many times in other threads that he has no problem with people who love the preqeuls. And you have stated that you do indeed have sympathy for those of us who hope beyond hope for the unedited versions to one day become available once again. However you seem to want to try and convince us that because a lot of other people are buying the DVD's and accepting the changes George Lucas has made, that these movies are better.

There is no way you can ever convince me of that, as I am sure there is no way to convince you not to be a fan of the prequels. I don't think you are less of a fan because you enjoy these movies! Go ahead and enjoy them, but don't expect us to do the same.

I actually enjoy your posts, as they do keep things interesting. However I did find it ironic when you criticized Movie Goer for calling you less of a Star Wars fan, only because (and I can only speak for myself here) a lot of your posts seem to say that we who hate the new Star Wars are not "real" fans.

As to this comment:

QUOTE
i`m sticking around here, so you`ll have to put up with my "little comments" for a bit longer at least.

I'm actually very pleased with this. Even though it's great to have a forum with so many people who share the same ideas. It's also a good thing to have someone with a different point of view. tongue.gif
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:53 AM

JYAMG, what you wrote describes my feelings on the subject exactly. My experience is almost identical.

Jariten, perhaps the reason that a lot of us find it utterly inconceivable that someone would enjoy the PT at the same level as the OT is because we judge the films according to completely different standards. I refuse to believe that someone who was touched by the OT the same way as I was can find anything remotely good about the PT. The qualities I fell for are non-existant in the PT. It is soulless, cold and empty. And now I feel even worse about the DVD release. When you're passionate about something in this way, it is very difficult, or rather impossible, to understand PT supporters. What Lucas has done with the PT and SE DVD is so profoundly insulting and infuriating to us, and when someone supports Georges heinous blasphemy we sometimes react in a pretty fierce way. I find our debates here interesting nevertheless, but like Han Solo, I tend to shoot first. smile.gif
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 12:45 PM

The thing was that you missed the entire point of the thread, Jariten. You're a Star Wars fan. I know it. I was just using the term 'old school Star Wars' fan here for people like myself who don't like what Lucas has done to these films in recent years.

I didn't say that you're less of a Star Wars fan than us or that your opinions are invalid. My point was that sometimes you're a little bit inconsiderate of us.

For you, it's high times. You're getting everything you wanted out of Star Wars. But for most of us here, we're watching as Lucas rapes and destroys some of most beloved childhood memories.

The 'little comments' that I was referring to are the ones where you seem to just say "Ah, it's no big deal. Get over it." or when you continually take the side of Lucas when you know full well that what he is doing is a really prickish, nasty thing to do.

The point of this thread was just to say, mate, could you please be a little more considerate.
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#6 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 07:30 PM

Ah, movie-goer.

You know that in fact jariten is more of a "Star Wars" fan than any of us, since he likes the canon and we don't. I for one am happy to say I am no "Star Wars" fan, although there were these two movies I liked and I have good memories of the time I saw them (One of them is called STAR WARS; hence the confusion).

You should also have noticed how time and again jariten has said that he wishes Lucas would relent and release another version of the OT without the changes, so the comment above about how he's jumping up with glee and saying "too bad, so sad" to the rest of us, frankly has no place in the light of the facts.

I have a secret wish too that Lucas will "relent" (read "cash in") in about a year or so, and say how he's doing it "for his fans," so that he can make profit by selling the OT agan to the people who are grudgingly buying it now. After all, he released the OT on laserdisc in 1998, after he'd already made the original SE, and he didn't need to do that. I'm not holding my breath with this one, since he's said some things recently that have more or less painted him into a corner. If he does release it, he'll need to call it something like "STAR WARS Classic" (anyone else remember the year of "New Coke?"), and make a statement about how in his mind it is not canon. It would be super easy to spin, and he could come off looking real good in the end. I don't expect it to happen, but all the same if it does I won't be shocked.

The thing that annoys me most about Lucas is the current claim that it's expensive to release the films on DVD. Bullshit. He says "10 million dollars" like that's what it costs to create a digital master. BULLSHIT! I rented BUBBA HO-TEP a little while back: you telling me, George, that it costs 10 million dollars to master that DVD? How could any distribution house get in on this? How could small films ever some out on DVD if they cost $85000 per minute to master?

It's the lies and the ignorant condescension that I don't like. The stuff you accuse jariten of, MG, where it is not justified; jariten accuses Lucas of it as well.

Keep it up, j. You are completely wrong and you may have very bad taste, but you are sincere and genuine, and you don't condescend to no-one.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 08:56 PM

Ah to be honest, I don't remember what it was that prompted this rant. Something Jariten said just really rubbed me the wrong way.

I agree that he's generally polite and he's not condescending.... but there was something he said recently (I tried to find where it was) that just really bugged me.

Okay, I guess I'm not a true Star Wars fan then either, if that means that I have to like everything George Lucas gives us.

I'm sorry, Jariten. I don't remember what exactly prompted this remark but I get a bit agitated when I hear people talking about these new things in Star Wars as if they are canon - because to me, they will always be travesties.

However, if there's one thing that I'd like you to remember for future discussions, it's this -

You're getting everything you want out from Star Wars. It's high times for you.

But the rest of us are getting repeatedly kicked in the gut by Lucas.


Last note, man, I wish I could get my hands on those laserdisc versions of the original movies.
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#8 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:34 PM

QUOTE
Keep it up, j. You are completely wrong and you may have very bad taste, but you are sincere and genuine, and you don't condescend to no-one.


likewise. tongue.gif

QUOTE
The point of this thread was just to say, mate, could you please be a little more considerate


im not sure what you mean by this, or what you want me to do.

This post has been edited by jariten: 25 September 2004 - 09:34 PM

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:39 PM

I mean, uh, how to do put it....

We know that Lucas can do whatever he wants to these movies and there's nothing we can do about it. But I just mean there's no need to rub it in all the time.

I'm really sorry about having a go at you, mate. We had a tragedy in the family yesterday and I'm not really in my best mood. I've been a bit fiery on all the forums actually, as Heccubus can probably tell you.

How about a change of pace....

In keeping myself out of trouble, I'm working on that next Star Wars outing. Have you got any ideas about what you'd like your character to do in it?
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#10 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:45 PM

i never meant to do that and if it came off as that i apologise. like Civ pointed out for me, i am on your side for the `why wont he release the O-OT` part.

QUOTE
Have you got any ideas about what you'd like your character to do in it?


hmm...im really really pleased to be in it. i think that you and me should have some kind of lightsabre/laser/kung-fu battle in it though, for old times sake laugh.gif
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:54 PM

That would work. I've got an idea for that now. Thank you. smile.gif And thanks for the nice post, Jariten. You're a good guy. Sometimes I'm a bit too hotblooded in these posts. So I'm sorry for that. Cheers, mate.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 25 September 2004 - 09:56 PM

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#12 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:34 PM

the important thing is that if i ever meet lucas.... I WILL shoot first.
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#13 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:36 PM

JYAMG- I thought I detected an odd tone to your first post in this subject. At first it sounded like a fuzzy memory but then it started to sound like Yoda describing why he went to hide in the Dagobah system.

"Destroyed the original trilogy has been. Gathered at chefelf.com forums the last of the Jedi did."

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#14 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 01:04 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ Sep 25 2004, 10:25 AM)
the bits i didnt like, well, i still didnt like them, but then the bits i did like got better and better

What an honest George Lucas might say?








----

I've visited that super-shadow site. I'd hate to report I'm optimistic. 12 minutes focused on the duel sounds interesting. (sigh) I've been burned before, but that was nearly 3 years ago...

like so many here, I've given the prequels more than a fair shot.
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 03:48 AM

QUOTE
"Destroyed the original trilogy has been. Gathered at chefelf.com forums the last of the Jedi did."


I'm just quoting that because it's so damn quotable. smile.gif Nice work, J M.

Maybe you could use J M's line in The Right Site, Despondent?
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