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Empire of Dreams SW documentary

#1 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 02:13 PM

Anyone else see this last night? It was basically the documentary of the OT that is on the DVDs, but shown on A and E with 56 minutes cut out of it. I thought it was very well done and very interesting. Yeah, there still is some propaganda stuff there about the prequels and concerning Lucas, but there really isn't that much. Most of it is just really interesting commentary from the people who made Star Wars about how it was made and what it meant to them. It included commentaries (and this is off the top of my head, I may leave some people out) by Mark Hamill (who does a great Yoda impression), Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, Billy Dee Williams, Anthony Daniels, James Earl Jones, Peter Mayhew, Kenny Baker (who tells a very funny story about how he danced inside R2 because he was told to "be happy", Warwick Davis, Ben Burrt, Ralph McQuarrie (I think he was interviewed, they may have just shown his drawings), John Dykstra, Frank Oz, Lawrence Kasdan, and, most importantly for you ROTJ haters, Gary Kurtz and Irvin Kershner (who seemed to be on good terms with Lucas, but idk). Many funny and interesting stories told about it. I'm gonna pick out a couple I liked the most, since I realize most of you, unlike myself, will not pick up the DVDs (like I said, I'm a sucker for any merchandising).

Ok first, a story that will add fuel to the fire of people who say Lucas is untalented. During the scene in ESB when Han is put into carbonite, Lucas originally had scripted Leia saying, "I love you," and Han saying "I love you too." Harrison Ford didn't think they were taking advantage of Han's character, he would never give in and say I love you too. Kershner has him do all these different takes saying I love you too, but it never sounds right. So finally, Kershner tells Han, don't say I love you too, just react and say whatever comes to mind, and then immediately calls action. Harrison, of course, says "I know", which became the line. Now I love you too isn't a terrible line, but it does show that Lucas, when left unchecked, will write something like that. If he has a "no" man, I'm sure he can write very well, because he has shown he does write good dialogue even if he hates writing. But with all these yes men like McCallum around them, and with Lucas's ego being inflated all these years since '83, he is left unchecked, and that kind of dialogue compounds into what we see in the prequels.

On another note, there was some great footage of Yoda between takes, where they're trying to get the eyes right and the body moving correctly, and it really showed how amazingly difficult it was to get Yoda a real, living, breathing character. Hamill also "fondly" recalls being the only human on the set for months, along with many snakes, gila monsters, lizards, smoke machines, and other things. One scene shows him getting bitten by a snake that was inside the X-Wing.

They showed Ralph McQuarrie's conceptual drawings of the original Star Wars's scenes, and they were absolutely gorgeous. They were needed actually to convince the studio to make Star Wars, or they would dump it, and I can see why they convinced the board of directors at Fox. They looked almost exactly like the movie, and were just beautiful.

They also said that it was actually because of ESB that Lucas had to quite the director's guild, writer's guild, and MPA because of some ridiculously nitpicky things like putting credits at the end of the movie instead of the beginning (they allowed it for the original Star Wars, but they fined him a crapload of money for ESB). They said the Guild also fined Kershner more than a quarter of a million dollars, which Lucas paid for him (if there's one good thing you can say for Lucas, it is that he has always been extremely generous to and protective of his people, and I can understand why Kershner seemed to be on good terms with him). They said Spielberg was going to direct ROTJ, but because Lucas had to quit the guild, he wasn't able to hire Spielberg, and had to get Marquand (I'm sure Spielberg would have made at least a bit of a difference in ROTJ).

The original screen tests were pretty funny. Some of the people they showed just overacted tremendously, because the lines were so ridiculous (Hamill recalled one line he had to say, which he actually delivered pretty well, that is just so unbelieveably stupid that it has stuck with him all these years). It showed Kurt Russel screen testing for Han (he was actually pretty good) along with Ford's, Hamill's, and Fisher's original tests, which they all did very well.

They also joked about how David Prowse would actually say his lines in his scenes, and since nobody knew yet what Vader really sounded like, they were afraid that Prowse's voice would actually be used, and that this Dark Lord had a soft Scottish accent that was just hilarious and terrifying at the same time. And though I knew this before, I still think it's amazing that James Earl Jones stuttered as a kid.

There are tons more that I forgot, but it was very entertaining and enlightening. And what's funny is, I came out of it with more respect for 2 things. One was George Lucas, who I still contend isn't the evil untalented money-hungry monster we make him out to be, though he certainly is an asshole for fucking with us multiple times. The second, believe it or not, was The Empire Strikes Back. They really played up Empire in the documentary, and I'm almost starting to come around to Civ's and JYAMG's side about it compared to Jedi, and I found myself wishing that Jedi was done a little differently. But, I'm still not there yet, I still think Jedi's a great movie, and probably always will, but I'm really beginning to like ESB much, much more, so because of that, anyone who believes the decline of Star Wars started with ROTJ should be fairly pleased. Warwick Davis was cool talking about the Ewoks though, and Kasdan defends them too (though he did say that he, along with Ford, had a major disagreement with Lucas because they thought someone, preferably Han, should die, and while I see their point, I still do believe that not killing him or anyone else was the proper decision, it would have made it just too real and less of the fantasy/fairy tale it's supposed to be). But it doesn't matter, the point is it is a very good documentary, so see if it's going to be on TV again because you should catch it.
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#2 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:36 PM

im getting the DVDs soon, so ill see it then. it sounds really good though.
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#3 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:37 PM

That's a beautiful review. Genuine, heartfelt, well done. Makes me want to see the thing, if only for Mark Hamill alone.

I think it's a testament to the power of the light side of the force (the CT) that a documentary about it can muster up such feelings in a viewer. Try this with the PT (dark side) in twenty years, and noone here is going to get the least bit misty; not even jariten.

Glad to hear you're turning around on EMPIRE, VWING. I sense there is still some good in you.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 13 September 2004 - 06:37 PM

"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#4 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:50 PM

Well, thank you Civ. Now the only thing I'm worried about is that you'll see it and think it's the worst documentary ever made smile.gif.

Oh and I just really like Hamill, whenever he speaks he just makes me like him. If you're looking for the Yoda impression, though, it's VERY brief, he says only 4 or 5 words like Yoda when they're talking about filming the Yoda scenes on Dagobah, but it's brilliant (which makes sense, considering that he has made a career out of voice acting for cartoons, and I still contend that his Joker in the Batman Animated Series is better than Nicholson's). And he also takes part in a discussion about how one of the major things the studio was worrying about during the original Star Wars was, get this, whether or not Chewie was going to wear pants. He says, they're worrying about just getting this thing done in time, and the studio's worrying about whether Chewie is going to wear pants!
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#5 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 02:25 AM

I'm sure Civilian would enjoy the documentary if he saw it, Vwing. And in saying that, I'd love to see it myself someday (but not by handing over money for those terrible new DVDs). I can wait.

It must have been great to see so many of the people who played a role in creating this special part of our childhoods.

I'm amazed that some of the participants managed to sway your view (even if only slightly) over Return of the Jedi and The Empire Strikes Back. After endless debates on this forum, we couldn't even make you budge. This documentary must have been compelling stuff.

I also would have loved to have heard all the stories that took place while making these films.

You obviously enjoyed it a lot, Vwing. It really comes across in your wonderful, heartfelt review. Thank you for sharing that with us. I will see it myself someday if I should ever get the chance.
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#6 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:05 AM

I recorded the documentary on my ReplayTV. I look foward to watching it when I get a second.

Anyone ever see "From Star Wars to Jedi"? It was boxed with the Star Wars trilogy that was released on VHS in 1990. I liked that documentary quite a bit.
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#7 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 11:34 AM

Yeah, "From Star wars to Jedi" is nice. Nothing fancy, no axe to grind, no product to promote. Just some nice lightheathed reminiscing.

When I bought the THX Laserdiscs (last chance to see the series without the changes!) in 1998, I gave that box set away to a friend, but I kept the documentary.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#8 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:12 PM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Sep 14 2004, 12:34 PM)
When I bought the THX Laserdiscs (last chance to see the series without the changes!) in 1998, I gave that box set away to a friend, but I kept the documentary.

Damn... you're so LUCKY! I wish I had those so I could transfer them to DVD.
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#9 User is offline   Vwing Icon

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:41 PM

It's funny I never actually bought the SEs. A while back, probably before or right about when I was born, the trilogy was on TV, and my sister (also a big fan) taped them on one tape. They're not great quality, the beginning of the Luke/Leia exchange in ROTJ was cut off (it wasn't until the SE that I knew what they actually said to each other in the beginning, if you can believe that), the credits of ESB were cut off (which really sucked), and at one point during the Emperor's arrival on the Death Star, someone probably accidentally changed the channel because for one second it changes to this pop music and text. It's hilarious, because Palps is doing his evil laugh, and this pop music from the 80s comes on for a split second, so short that it's almost subliminal, and then it goes back to him laughing. It's so great. And hey, they are the originals, and they're Star Wars, and I can pop em into my VHS and watch them at any time. That's all that counts.
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Posted 14 September 2004 - 09:10 PM

QUOTE (Vwing @ Sep 14 2004, 08:41 PM)
and at one point during the Emperor's arrival on the Death Star, someone probably accidentally changed the channel because for one second it changes to this pop music and text.  It's hilarious, because Palps is doing his evil laugh, and this pop music from the 80s comes on for a split second, so short that it's almost subliminal, and then it goes back to him laughing.  It's so great.

laugh.gif

that is funny. I've done that too. Kind of like Dr. Nick studying up for open heart surgery on Homer and his how-to tape does the same thing. consider it better than a Lucas enhancement.

The ebay boxset I have has those annoying Leo Malten Lucus suck-up interviews at the beginning of each film, with Q&A about the corresponding flick.
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