[the_bonic_hiphop_man]

i was a star wars fan from 1977 to the premire of 1983 return of the jedi...i remember in high school when the future terrorist, druggies, wife beaters , of america ect where wearing thier "kiss" , "cheech and chong" shirts ect, i with pride wore my star wars tee-shirt, there was something just kick ass about the tee with han solo and chewbacca with thier weapons drawn ready to fight the evil forces of the empire...i could relate to that...also i thougt the empire was a good movie and although the ending was a bit troubling you knew in the next one that han would be free from the carbonite...well retun of the jedi came and i stopped being a fan that opening night, never did i fell so betrayed as i did that may night of 1983...poor story and although i could swallow a second death star, i could not swallow the ewokes...also it was not me, the people i went with that night felt it too, we went to an all night pan cake house and spoke about this "betrayal" intil dawn...some posters here have hit on it and its this...lucas took some of our best memories from the high school years and just crapped all over them...yes it might be his "story" but 1 he took from so many different sources ( like the samuri movie "hidden fortress" where lucas freely admits to his inspiration for star wars ) and 2 its the fan base that makes or breaks any franchise be it movie, tv, or movie / singing star lucas owed us a better movie...did you noticed the real lack of merchantdising for "clones" sure a thing here and there but nothing like the merchandising of "star wars" "empire" or even "jedi"...now with the coming of the "re-mastered" original series this month i say the franchise has sunk to a new low...i think that the best the true fan base can do is just not buy into any of the product AT ANY LEVEL...THAT ENCLUDES FOOD / DRINK / ECT PRODUCT TIE INS...and try to reason with others that they too need to avoid purchasing any star wars product...the prequells are just very bad extensions of "jedi" and does more harm to limit the franchise growth...although mr lucas thinks he can do as he wants, he can only do that with money and lots of it...if the fans vote with thier dollars and can affect the bottom line of how much money can be made per movie then we might see an improvement in future SW movies...i think that it will be another 25 years before we see a "redeeming" of the series...i personaly believe that in 50 years CGG will be so advance that any actor from charles chaplin to top actor in 2054 can be CGGed...this would have good and bad sides but in the hands of say "fan based conglomerates " or money hungrey studioes who see a gold mine in a "properly" constructed movie more along with the fans as a whole want , then this is where CGG will come into acceptance...until then the true SW fan needs to be very very very tight with any dollar going to a current star wars movie....

[Just your average movie goer]

Welcome to the forum, Bonic Hip Hop Man. It is a very good point you've made. I for one am not planning to give Lucas a single cent for anything related to Star Wars, unless it should be the original versions of the original movies.

And it's good to see another member who understands that the rot first set in when Return of the Jedi was made. A member who understands this is always welcome with me.

[the_bonic_hiphop_man]

thank you...did you see the on cable A and E the shit about lucas..."star wars empire of dreams" 09 12 04... shame what lucas did to the original series...and by the way...did lucas ever come out about his thoughts about 09 11 01...i lost a part of me that day and i wonder what the f(_)ck old george thought about this the biggest lost of life on usa soil since the civil war...no i dont count pearl harbor...that wasnt part of america...sorry i am drunk...i have been "high" since friday 09 10 04...this is a bad time for me...oh PS ...pitty old george "s office wasnt on top of the WTC on 09 11 01...then at least there were have been "one" good thing a silver lineing if you would about 911...peace and rememberance !

[jariten]

i probably wont buy any socks or skateboards related to sw, cos most of it is junk. I expect ill see RotS about 6 times though.

[Commoner]

Then you're buying for the rest of us, because honest to god, I'm not going to go see ROTS. Nothing in it has been encouraging enough to see it. Not even the classic duel I've been building up in my mind for years and years. I just know it won't compare. The rumors have been horrible and unsettling. I agree with with Bionic. I should've gotten the clue when I first heard the rumor of Luke and Leia being brother and sister. THATS when I should've bowed out because that movie though better than the prequels really hurt the SWfranchi$e.

I mean, seriously, movie franchises really need to examine---HARD---these franchises which are failing... Aliens, Star Wars, Star Trek... I'll even put Indiana Jones in there, #4 should NOT be made!

The only---I repeat---the ONLY way Lucas could POSSIBLY win me back now is to put the O-OT on DVD. Even then I'll take and leave SW forever.

This post has been edited by Commoner: 13 September 2004 - 07:54 AM

[Helena]

Same here. I'll probably see RotS at some point, but I'm not going to pay for it.

BTW, is the new Star Trek series really as bad as everyone says? I've never watched it because a) I don't like Star Trek anyway and b) just listening to the title song makes me want to vomit.

[jariten]

i know, i`m planning to see RotS once for every member of Chefelf

edit-

how will you see it without paying for it?! i dont much like ST either, and i only watched a few episodes of the new series, but it was equally as bad as the last ST film, which sadly I did pay to see.

This post has been edited by jariten: 13 September 2004 - 08:00 AM

[Just your average movie goer]

All movies come out on television eventually. I'm not going to pay to see it either.... but I will take a look one day if I get the chance, just for a laugh.

[Lefty]

I agree with the voting-with-the-dollar thing. I haven't seen anything since I was burned by "Phantom Menace".

Also, yes; despite being the first Star Trek to have aliens who are not all humans with a half-ounce of latex applied to some part of their heads, Star Trek Enterprise must be as bad as everyone says. It seems like a shame because the look & trailers seem interesting, but I have not been able to turn it on for more than 40 seconds before someone is stripping down. Sad, really.

[the_bonic_hiphop_man]

I agree with the voting-with-the-dollar thing.  I haven't seen anything since I was burned by "Phantom Menace".

Also, yes; despite being the first Star Trek to have aliens who are not all humans with a half-ounce of latex applied to some part of their heads, Star Trek Enterprise must be as bad as everyone says.  It seems like a shame because the look & trailers seem interesting, but I have not been able to turn it on for more than 40 seconds before someone is stripping down.  Sad, really.

.WELL ONE CAN SAY THIS FOR SURE THE WORST STAR TREK EPISODE ( SPOCKS BRAIN ) IS BETTER THAT JEDI, MENACE, CLONES, AND THE 2005 ENTRY SITH...NOW THATS REALLY SAD @!

[CowboyCurtis]

I never thought Spock's Brain was the worst episode of ST. I always thought it was that one with the hippies and Spock's singing (GAAHH!!). You're right though, Spock's Brain actually maintains character's personalities and the general feel and atmosphere and "logic" of ST whereas SW throws all this out the window in favor of catering to the "younger" generation rather than the one which made it strong and acceptable.

Here's my quick thought on Lucas: I get the feeling that he's not catering to the old fans, that he thinks that we've all "grown beyond" SW, that we're not a bunch of geeky 30 somethings. He could very well be thinking, "Geez, these guys are having kids, etc., how could they POSSIBLY still be interested in SW after all these years. Heck, I've got a new audience, the ones who never saw the first films, they'll never know the difference, and since they don't know the difference, I'll change the old films, too, so if they go back to "check it out" they'll never be the wiser...and since the older fans are all grown up and not interested anymore, I won't worry about them telling the younger ones about the difference. IF they do, the younger one will think the older ones are senile...heh-heh."

Okay, a bit of agism there, I know. I know there are many under 30's who dislike the PT's and SE's as much as the olders... just thinking out loud here.

Good to be back, BTW, my computer "blew up" and I had to find another one, plus I was really lazy and enjoying my time away from the internet with the nice weather and all.

[jariten]

but lucas changing the originals is part of the legacy now, and i doubt that fact will ever be forgetten in any generation. the minor changes to the originals are just for the sake of continuity, which I welcome, although I think of SW as a 6 film saga, whereas I am aware that probably everyone else on this board thinks of them as 3.

[CowboyCurtis]

minor changes to the originals are just for the sake of continuity,

As we've been going over and over again in these forums, some of the changes are not minor. Han shooting first is a big one. Jabba and how he's treated and his dialogue being redundant is another.

As for continuity... that should've been taken care of with the PT, not the other way around. Again, this has been said repeatedly around here.

[jariten]

all the changes related to continuity are minor (with the obvious exception of S Shaw being switched with Hayden- but i cant comment on this until i`ve seen it). Han shooting first was just a stylistic alteration anyway, even if you dont agree with it, it has nothing to do with bridging the gap between the PT and the OT.

Jabba and how he's treated and his dialogue being redundant is another.

well, perhaps you could expound on your second point a little bit, because im not sure what you mean. on the other hand its important to see Jabba in 4, esp. after his appearance in 1. having him in 1, 4 then 6 is Lucas keeping the narrative cohesive and tight. reoccuring characters are essential in an undertaking of the magnitude of SW, to keep things focussed. thats also why i stand by Lucas` decision to have Boba in 2, not only to flesh the character out but to also keep everything together. watched in sequence, i think it will work.

As for continuity... that should've been taken care of with the PT

well but there was a significant gap between 6 and 1 though right? so there was always going to be small things that needed tweaking.

[Just your average movie goer]

Why can't Lucas just release two versions of the original trilogy?

He can release one set for fans like me and Cowboy Curtis, maybe with the episodes retitled as I, II and III so we can call it a complete set and be happy.

And then he can release the screwed over editions for you prequel gushers.

Each respective fan group would happily hand over the money for their DVDs so Lucas would make twice as much money as he would with his present course of action - and everybody would be happy.

Think, Lucas, think.