[Madam Corvax]

I am so very, very sad. I read Mike’s and JYAMG’s posts last night my time and what can I say which has not been already said by Civilian? Maybe that I just could not believe you did it.

I also thought why you did it. Was it because:

-Mike had had a bad day and wanted to take it out on someone one continent and a Pacific ocean away?
-JYAMG’s children really got onto his nerves and his patience was on tenterhooks, so the provocation was enough for him?
-or it is just in-born in guys that they have to get at each other’s throats, literally or otherwise?

Guys, I gather that you never saw each other and probably never will. A common feeling brought you all to this forum. If you two cannot coexist peacefully, who can?

You don’t have to answer me, these are just my rhetorical questions.

I just say, that I still remember, several months ago, when Mike was telling us all about his daughter, sharing his personal joy, and when JYAMG wrote a post, saying nice things about each member of the forum. I haven’t been a member yet, but I read those posts and I thought, wow, I would love to join this forum, these all people I would like to know.

And Jordan – did I also ignore your posts? I was trying not to. I am sorry you got that impression from my part.

And I hope I’ll manage to post it before Chefelf closes this thread.

This post has been edited by Madam Corvax: 09 September 2004 - 12:40 AM

[Jordan]

Tension flares up every once and awhile. It's healthy, we can't all be happy all the time.

But for what it's worth. I like reading Mike's Posts.

[Just your average movie goer]

Very sorry about the incident but let's not ignore the fact that Mike's decision is largely the result from his own actions. He was the one who read a nice little post about the romance in Raiders and thought "Ho! Somebody's attacking Temple of Doom again... the bastards!"

He then wrote a scathing rebuttal, thinking himself very clever. The argument was pretty weak (ie. Indiana Jones should copy the formula of James Bond) and Civilian and I told him so. Had Civilian not been involved, I would have still told Mike that his argument was not very good.

So then Mike moved onto the defensive, quoting himself making comments about quotes from himself, putting lots of capital letters, exclamation marks and angry faces.

I commented that his six posts in a row were an incoherent mess, which they were. And why shouldn't I tell him? It's for his own good. This guy should learn how to write. He'd do well to also learn about constructing arguments in a logical manner. Anyway, he couldn't take a bit of criticism so he went off again, this time turning himself into some kind of martyr.

I recieved criticism for telling him I was glad to be rid of him - but he had it coming. Save your sympathy, ladies and gentlemen.

And regarding the general consensus around here that I'm turning the forum into a nasty place, I beg to differ. By ridding the forum of our more aggressive users, I think the forum actually becomes a much nicer place all round.

But YOU are aggressive, some might say. No. I am defensive. There's a difference. It is still not a good character trait but I'll be honest about it - I do have it. However, if aggressive users aren't around, then I won't feel the need to get defensive.

The difference between myself and most of you is that I am always honest on this forums. Whereas most of you tend to opt for diplomacy over honesty when the two come into conflict. Mike's last effort on this forum was a terrible mess and he drove himself to leaving. Me, I merely expressed my relief at his decision.

Again, save your sympathies, ladies and gentlemen. And let us return to civilised discussions.


* And Jordan, I often disagree with you on various subjects. But you're fine by me and I don't think anyone means to give you a hard time. And I believe Civilian was only joking about giving you one. Do I have a non-sexual crush on the man? No. I just have a lot of respect for a guy who knows how to construct an intelligent argument and always knows his subject matter before talking about it.

I think MIke felt backed into a corner.

You're probably right, mate. Just remember that he jumped into it first.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 09 September 2004 - 01:10 AM

[Jordan]

Nobody really gives me a hard time. I'm just terrible at explaining myself in writing and people know it. Therefore when shots are taken, and I try to write a comeback, it just falls back in my face since my debating skills suck shit.

I don't think you were out of line. I think Mike just misunderstood you, for reasons I already pointed out.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 09 September 2004 - 02:10 AM

[Madam Corvax]

JYAMG – my post was not about apportioning the blame. I just find it very sad that such an accident happened at all, that’s all. I did not expect Mike to behave like that, remembering all the lovely things he said about his daughter, etc. I found this outburst incomprehensible. He simply did not look to me as THIS type of guy.

As to you, well, I know you are a little hot-blooded sometimes, I’ve witnessed it. It is just how you are. Civilian is a bit sarcastic sometimes, Jordan is, ehem, Jordan sometimes, displaying his best spankable quality (that is a joke, Jordan). Probably I am also somehow annoying to you all, boasting too much, saying too much personal things, getting off topic too much, I don’t know.

But you said something about people in this forum not being honest in their responses. If you read my post in reply to Mike’s rants (the one just above yours) you see that I expressed my opinion rather frankly and honestly and it was quite similar to your opinion. I do not perceive myself as dishonest.

Communication by means of writing only is extremely difficult. I’ve read some popular psychology stuff that 90% of the message is conveyed by non-verbal exp​ressions like your facial exp​ression, body language, gestures, etc. So getting your ideas across just by means of writing is extremely difficult, and sometimes not even smilies help. So perhaps it is not to be wondered that such accidents happen.

Sometimes I have difficulties understanding some posts (I think Barend’s are the most difficult for me to understand), sometimes I have a feeling nobody got what I wrote. I put it all down to me not being native speaker, and the above difficulties in written communication. I think that making allowances for the difficulties in communication is not being dishonest, just practical.

I want to tell you once again, that I really like you all, otherwise I wouldn’t be here. I hope nobody ever tells me to get out of here and wave “good riddance” goodbye to me.

[Just your average movie goer]

You are right, Jordan and Madam Corvax. And yes, now that I remember Mike talking about his little girl and everything, it does seem sad that we had this incident.

If he comes back, I'll try to be nicer to him. As for everyone else here, don't worry. I like all of you, guys. And you're right. I am a bit hot-blooded... it's a bad personality trait of mine. But I'll try to keep in check as much as possible.

Okay, let's hope this is the last of the nastiness that's taken place on the forum recently. Here's to a happier forum for all our users.

[Madam Corvax]

See you all on Monday. I am dog-minding for my parents for the rest of the week.

[Just your average movie goer]

Have fun... and have a nice weekend. See you on Monday.

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah, you're reading again. Come on, Mike. Come back. Sorry about those nasty parting comments - they were uncalled for.

EDIT - Ah, gone again. I know you'll be back, Mike. Take some time off, relax and unwind. We'll see you when you feel it's safe to swim in the water again.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 09 September 2004 - 10:00 AM

[Chefelf]

Hey, let's all be cool. Are we really going to let a topic about onscreen romance get in the way of our friendship? I thought we were made of stronger stuff than that.

If it's going to cause a rift and people to leave the forums then it could at least be about something important like Star Wars.

Seriuosly... let's not get personal here. Discussion can get heated but why lose your temper over something so trivial? Just have fun with the discussion. I'd hate to have to close topics or remove posts because people are resorting to personal attacks. No good ever came of that.

Everything is going to be alright... I promise.

[Vwing]

First of all (and if any discussion comes from me continuing with your argument, let it be civil ), am I the only one who really didn't think Marion (or any of the Indiana Jones girls) were that important? I really like ROTLA, but the romance was not even close to being the centerpiece of the movie for me. I don't understand how the discussion got started in the first place, because I seriously don't think it's worth even having a discussion about. Yeah, sure, it would have been fine if Marion returned in TOD and LC, but so what? It's an Indiana Jones movie. Civ's remarks about Leia or Jamie Lee Curtis are really off the mark, because Star Wars was really centered around Leia, Han, and Luke, and True Lies was centered around Jamie Lee Curtis and Arnold Schwarzenegger. ROTLA (as much as I remember it anyway, haven't watched it in a while) was centered around Indiana Jones, with Marion as a supporting character. I don't necessarily think he should be James Bond, I don't think he needs a new love interest every story, but it really doesn't matter too much to me. If the movie's entertaining with the new love interest, then that's fine and dandy with me. The reason TOD was worse than ROTLA (and I don't think it was horrible, just a sub-par movie) was not because it didn't have Marion. It was because it was a stupid script with a stupid cult of stupid bad people who did stupid things like take someone's heart out his chest and then lower him into a fire (by the way, did you notice that they didn't take out the girl's heart). Also, in all fairness, it was a prequel (ho-ho) and Indy most likely hadn't met Marion yet, a fact I'm surprised no one brought up.

Anyway I'm done. It wasn't entirely coherent, but hopefully it met your standards JYAMG. And Mike, seriously, come back. This isn't worth it. Anyway, if you don't, who's going to defend ROTJ with me?

EDIT: Didn't read your post Mike. I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm glad you're stayin.

This post has been edited by Vwing: 09 September 2004 - 02:45 PM

[civilian_number_two]

Vwing, I think if you watch STAR WARS you'll find Leia has about as much to do in it as Marion had in RAIDERS. You think STAR WARS is about Luke Leia and Han because Leia was in the next two films. I venture that had Marion remained in the series you would see the RAIDERS differently.

So sure, I went over the top with the TRUE LIES comparison. That was the point! But no, I did not in fact go overboard with the Leia comparison. She could have disappeared between STAR WARS and EMPIRE, and there could have been a new damsel in distress, and you would now see Leia differently.

I think the point with Marion (and with Leia, sure) is that she is a character, and that she is part of the story, while the other gals are exactly as meaningful as Pussy Galore or Holly Goodhead. I would rather keep the character around than the dumb single entendre.

Over the years I've polled a lot of women (ha that sounds so funny!!!!), and they all say they'd prefer to have seen more Marion than the other pointless chicks that followed. They all say that Indiana Jones should not have turned into James Bond. And yes, a lot of guys either think the babe-in-every-dig-site works better, or they don't care. So I guess I agree with the women on this one, and with Movie Goer, who has recently revealed that his crush on me is *not* non-sexual.

Eeeeewwwwww.

PS: for anyone who may be keeping score, I never lost my temper.