[Sagacity]

This probably isn't the first time you've been savaged for speaking the truth, is it?

[Chefelf]

Sagacity,

Nope, that's not the first time that I've seen something like that. Nor will it be the last. I like that they're saying "Good find" about these articles which are over two years old.

My favorite has to be the opening posts where correct things I've said by quoting the movie EXACTLY like Christians quote the bible. That's rather scary.

Also, another great point, is when they say things like:

There were numerous times reading his list when I was just like, "Dude, that's YOUR opinion."

I get that one a lot. No KIDDING that's my opinion. That's why I wrote the list!

For the most part it's cool to see their points of view, but it's very discouraging that a lot of them have to post things like this:

lol okay first off, this guy is an idiot. Most of his reasons are pretty stupid and have little or no base to them. Second off, he needs to get a life! He made a "78 reasons to hate TPM" AND a "64 reasons to hate AOTC". Sheesh, if you dont like the movies then why do you make huge lists whining about their "faults", wheres the point?? Then again I love both movies so what do I care about this loser's opinions?

Like, c'mon. The "You need to get a life" argument is pretty thin. Is that how you defend the movies you love so much? Think up a good rebuttal. It's been done before!

I would love to have an intelligent debate with someone on the subject. Some of the early people that emailed me when the articles first came out had some great things to say. I know that some of the things are nitpicky... that's why I wrote the list: to nitpick!

Too many people just mudsling and say "Well you're an idiot!" or "It's just a movie! Things like that can just happen in a movie!"

I would love to have an intelligent forum debate on the merits, or lack thereof, of the prequels. Whether it be here or on their home turf. Just, someone, have something intelligent to say that doesn't put my sexuality into question or say that I'm an idiot. That's getting pretty old.

[Chefelf]

Just found another great post from that topic:

I am so sick of these people who have nothing better to do than find every miniscule thing that doesn't satisfy them. If you don't like the movie thats fine, not everyone has to like it, but it doesn't mean you have to slam it. I wish that I could meet the cry baby so that I could find 100 things that I hate about him and ost them all over the net. He is being a kill-joy. Plain and simple. He should find something productive to do with his time like create his own version of Star Wars that noone will watch. This kill-joy has some serious time on his hands.

That's AMAZING! I would love it if there was a list like that! Maybe I can send him some information about me and he could make that list!

[Commoner]

It's such a childish ploy... go after the person who is criticizing, impugn and denigrate them. No, don't debate the merits of his criticism at all..mmm, no, don't do that... that's too hard!

Keep the course, Chefelf. I, too, am considering starting a blog bashing the prequels, but you say it better than I ever could. So, I'm glad you're out there and in their faces...

[HK 47]

The talkback that follows is pretty funny. "Obviously someone who is not force sensitive", I love that remark. I'm surprised noone called you a "darksider". It's not an unusual supporter tactic. People who don't like the prequels are "darksiders" because they "hate", whereas the supporters "love". That is scary religious retoric.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a supporter version, "64 Reasons to Love AOTC"...

[Chefelf]

Come to think of it, I've never seen a supporter version, "64 Reasons to Love AOTC"...

That would be a tough list to come up with.

It's just like people who criticize the president here in the US being called "unpatriotic". Yes, because if you criticize any element of the government that means you are unAmerican. You should just blissfully sit back and let the administration do whatever it pleases without speaking up. THAT is what makes America great. THAT is what this country was founded on.

The same is true of Star Wars. I'm not going to give George Lucas carte blanche to throw any crap he wants at us just because he made the prequels and he is George Lucas. Hell no. I will continue to have a font place in my heart for the George Lucas that brought us the OT, but I'm not going to blissfully accept the PT. It's subpar and a lot of people know it. He set a certain standard of quality with the OT and has failed to deliver a comparbly level of quality with the prequels. That is my argument and my opinion on the matter.

[Esco]

I find these people hilarious. They get so bent out of shape whenever anybody attacks their "baby".
I personally began reading Chef's lists mainly for the humor of it. I didnt put much stock into the seriousness of his claims. But after I rewatched the films with a more nuetral and open view, I began to begrudgingly see the enormous plot holes and plot idiocy.
I guess I'm a convert .
I still somewhat enjoy ATOC, but in the same way I enjoy flicks like "They Live" or "Army of Darkness". Not serious fare, but for all the ham you can swallow.

[Just your average movie goer]

Just had a quick look at this topic. Don't lose any sleep over these idiots, people. Let them lose all the sleep. It surprises me that anyone would rush to defend these films.

If they were made with good intentions and Lucas tried to make something worthy of the original trilogy, then I could be a little more forgiving. But that's clearly not the case.

[Madam Corvax]

Sagacity - thanks for the link. It was a first time for me to read things like that, I never go near these forums.

I read it with interest and I found it amusig that some of these people after reading reasons says things "ok, maybe he has a point after all". "Oh, yes, that was perhaps unnecessary", like they are catching glimpses of enlightment after all. But none of the "arguments" against Chefelf's reasons were any good.

It is the "intelligent discussion" factor that is missing. Would any of these people start and carry out a good debate? I very much doubt it.

[Despondent]

What might be fun is to use all the avatars of THOSE FOLKS and make a movie with THAT!

(Oh yeah, they did. They sucked.)


I just clicked back. Someone complained about Anikan's hand being freed from the whatever thing in the factory.

"It's like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets his arms stuck in two vending machines. Just before they have to cut his arms off, one of the firemen says "Homer, you're not just holding on to the can are you?" - "Your point being?". Anakin had the same problem.

-----signature-----
"Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villiany.
(or lack thereof.) Good points, everyone.

[barend]

infamy = fame
start printing T-shirts dude!!!

some points...

Obviously someone who is not force sensitive and judges everything on the surface.

all i can say is DORK!!! I'm a nerd and I felt like giving that guy a wedgie and whipping eggs at him before cramming him into his locker!

I was trying to follow him and to see his point, but that's just beyond my limits.

hmmm....

Reason #2
"I shouldn't have come back."
The movie begins with an assassination attempt on the life of Senator Amidala. When several of her staff lie dead she says: "I shouldn't have come back." Isn't she a senator? How could she possibly avoid coming back? In what way has she been representing her planet for the past ten years that hasn't involved being in the Senate Chamber with all the other senators?

Umm, firstly she wasn't a senator for ten years, most of the time as she said she was queen. Also it is perfectly acceptable for a senator not to show up durring a meeting, they do it in the US Senate.

good defence... she was a queen who avoided her home planet... even better.

Reason #6
Gundarks
They just had to do it. In an elevator ride Anakin pointlessly brings up the time that he saved Obi-Wan after he fell into a "nest of Gundarks". They laugh about it... and it's really dumb. I will eat my hat if Nerf Herders are not mentioned in the next movie.

The point of this is to give the Master-Padawan relationship some more depth, the are bound to have memories from the past ten years they shouldn't be acting like they barely know each other

but they don act like they barley know each other....

Reason #10
Bugs Over Bullets
The assassination attempts on Amidala continue. Putting a bomb in her ship didn't seem to do the trick so these unknown assassins start to get a little more creative. Amidala's bedroom is protected by laser motion detectors all across the floor while these giant windows remain unguarded. The assassins decide to fly a droid over that will spread a part of the window open (how I'm not sure) and release poisonous bugs that can crawl underneath the lasers and bite the Senator. They opt for this method rather than sending the same droid over with a gun to just shoot her with bullets which would also not trip the lasers and would be foolproof. Instead they send living beings to sneak past Jedi who are masters of the Force, a mystical power created by life. Dumbasses.

If you want to see people shooting each other, watch an action movie, not Star Wars

that is the lamest thing i've ever heard....
what an ass.

funnily enough, my remark to this is out lined by onther poster

I remember the first Austin Powers movie, where Dr. Evil had an eliborate plan to kill Austin, and Scott was saying, "Why don't we just kill him? I'll shot him right now." And Dr. Evil tells Scott no. I mean, obviously we can't have Padme die. I guess this guy doesn't like any movie because most movies have that contrivance.

To be honest I see his point, but then this is a movie, where there is supension of belief. Sure, why didn't Zam put a bomb outside the window, so the whole apartment blows up? Obviously no one was monitoring the outside of the apt.s. Then we wouldn't have a movie, duh.

so er... yeah. maybe we would have just had a better movie?
Bad guys that are stupid just aren't really a threat now are they...

-----------------

as for Raz who said

It's like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets his arms stuck in two vending machines. Just before they have to cut his arms off, one of the firemen says "Homer, you're not just holding on to the can are you?" - "Your point being?". Anakin had the same problem.

this dude is my long lost brother... that's what i said!!!

i have to say i am impressed with some of the points outlined... but if you really want to like something you will... and if you really don't want to like something you won't.

however... i really wanted to like both movies, and i didn't. what does that say? that i'm an idiot... hmm maybe. but i can give a better argument aginst it then anyone can for it.

This post has been edited by Chefelf: 18 August 2004 - 10:22 AM

[barend]

have i been banned from quoting or something?

[Despondent]

I hope not. I just figured it out.

But was your long-lost brother an apologist? Maybe he's your good twin.

[SimeSublime]

I personally began reading Chef's lists mainly for the humor of it. I didnt put much stock into the seriousness of his claims. But after I rewatched the films with a more nuetral and open view, I began to begrudgingly see the enormous plot holes and plot idiocy.
I guess I'm a convert .

Same here. I have to say, Chefelf, that you ruined the prequal trilogy for me, but then again, it was so bad that you really just hastened the inevitable

[Chefelf]

have i been banned from quoting or something?

Fixed.

Despondent,

I like the fact that the post you quoted has this as the signature:

"Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."

It's always promising when they're quoting an excuse by the director as to why the movies aren't that great. If he had to make that quote, it was clearly due to some great backlash from fans.

barend,

I have received SO MANY emails from people who take my reasons and then give their reasons why my reasons are no good. SO MANY. Probably in excess of 200-300... seriously. I created my list for my own benefit (though I'm pleased at how many people have responded to it and sent their compliments for "summing up" their feelings as well). However, I can't bear to read one more list of my reasons, annotated by some prequel fan or fellow basher.

Seriously... if I see a list of my reasons with comments under each one I just block it out out of self defense. It's maddening how many people have sent me things of that nature.

--

Well... I hope some of them mosey on over here. I'm always game for some good healthy debate on the subject. I think this Star Wars forum has some of the best, most focused Star Wars discussion on the Internet. The only thing it lacks is input from those people who really enjoyed the Prequels. The only posts we've really gotten on that subject were when we had guest posting enabled and people would occassionally just flame me or others using random strings of four letter words.

Where are all the intelligent Prequel fans? Come on in! Join the discussion! I won't simply allow prequel fans to be flamed here. If a discussion is well thought out and intelligently worded I'd love to hear it even if I totally disagree.