[Xombie]

Anakin's mom and Watto.

(long pause)

You know, it would explain a lot.

"Who's the father?"

"Um, there is no father. I can't explain it."

Leading to a scene that would actually make Revenge of the Sith worth seeing:

WATTO: "Obie Won never told you about your father."

ANAKIN: "He told me enough...He told me...um...I ...um...didn't have a father. I just happened. And I believe him...cause...I do."

WATTO: "No, Annie. I am your father."

ANAKIN: "Nooooooooooooo!"

WATTO: "Yep. Me and your mom. Doing it like horny banthas."

ANAKIN: "It's not true!"

WATTO: "She gave me more head than a pod race sports announcer."

ANAKIN: "Shut up, that's my mom you're talking about!"

WATTO: We'd take turns spanking each other. The R2 droid took pictures. Here. have a look.

ANAKIN: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

(R2 unit projects hologram of Watto dressed in a diaper and bound to a bed and Anakin's mom dressed in a wookie outfit with a paddle and a jar of whipped cream.)

ANAKIN'S MOM: Oh Watto. You've been a bad mosquito.

(Anakin runs away and jumps into a volcano.)

[HK 47]

My point was simply that, perhaps they did lead a better lifestyle than most slaves. However, if that IS true, it should have been made more clear, because I think it would have added a great deal to the drama (If Anakin leaves, does that mean Shmi has to go back to living in the slave quarters?)

Ok, I get your point. But wouldn't that make the Jedis choice of not freeing Shmi a whole lot worse than it already is? "...made more clear" indeed. If Lucas uses the word "slave", he should show us just how bad that is.

[HK 47]

LOL Xombie! That's what I dreaded when reading Ronins first post AHAHAHA!!!!

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah-hah! So this is where the prequels are leading to! Xombie, you have uncovered the tightly guarded plot of Episode III there.

[Helena]

LOL... yes, that would certainly provide a good reason for Anakin to turn to the Dark Side.

[Commoner]

You sick puppies.... but that would funnier than anything....

Now, everyone has complained about an elected queen but let's be honest, no one says that she was elected by the people. She could have been appointed by an elite council or something.

Uh... yes, the governor (Bibble) says, ".. the PEOPLE have decided." Sounds like a majority of the population to me rather than just a handful. Again, Lucas' lack of understanding of ANY governmental system is apparent. He mish-mashes things, and it doesn't work. It was so easy for the first triloy... emperor, despot, he makes the rules... that's it.... simple. If Lucas would just keep things simple, it wouldn't be so bad.

[jariten]

"When Qui Gon and Obi Wan were on Tatooine, there were slaves everywhere, including Anakin of course.... and they didn't give a shit. It didn't bother them in the slightest. There they were, dealing with Watto as if he was just a regular business man. Why were they paying him money for Anakin's release when they could have -
a. hauled him off to prison or
b. slashed him to pieces with a lightsabre?"

"The Republic doesnt exist out here, we must survive on our own"

"Republic credits are no good out here I need something more real"

how could they have hauled him off to prison when slavery was obviously rife on a planet that was totally out of their juristiction??

slashed him to pieces with a lightsabre?? youre joking here right??

"Surely, the jedi should have had a problem with the whole cloning issue."

I think this is a good point, but it depends what you want to see from a Star Wars movie. ethical discussions?? i think theyd be several more complaints about it if Lucas took it down that road, and added further complications to an already rather complicated film. i think, in a fantasy environment like Star Wars, we have to accept the ethics of that particular environment as they are layed down to us. the clones are often reffered to as if they wernt much similar from the battle droids (indeed theyre just like the next step). i think we have to take them as everyone in the SW universe obviously does- fighters, nothing more.

"Why, why, why? Why would the Republic allow private organisations to have their own armies? This is especially stupid when the Republic doesn't even have its own army."

quite clearly what the Federation did in TPM was illegal, and if the Republic knew they wouldve been shut down (at least thats what everyone presumed would happen but they didnt count on Palpatine/Sidious obviously). You say army, but really its rather small, and if you watch TPM youll see that theyre employed for a lot of things other than security. its no different to having security guards at your company, expect the Federation is much much bigger in scale. the republic had the Jedi to protect them, as the opening crawl makes clear.

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah, welcome. It is nice to hear the other side of argument from an intelligent individual.

Yes, I was joking about slashing Watto to pieces with a lightsabre but I do think they should have called for a republic taskforce to come and clean the planet up. I figured that the Old Republic was pretty much all-encompassing.

Now I don't think either that Obi Wan and Qui Gon could have waited around for the republic task force to rescue Anakin. But they could have said "We're calling in a task force, Watto. And if you don't want to go down, then I suggest you release the boy and his mother to me."

The problem with the whole plot device, from my perspective, was that the only reason it was there seemed to be George Lucas could have his pod race...

... which was pretty much a visual gag, taken off Ben Hurr... right down to the details of having the pods pulled by engines that are attached by a harness. I thought that was ridiculous. Why couldn't they all just race in landspeeders or show us a T-16 (Yay! )?


Regarding the issue of the clones, the problems stem from the fact that it was the good guys who were using them in the movie. I always imagined, when Obi Wan referred to the Clone Wars in A New Hope, that this was a war in which the Jedi fought against the clones. In this way, the complexities of ethical discussions would be avoided entirely. It would make a lot more sense too - evil people are making clones and invading planets with them. Cloning is bad.

As for needlessly making the movie more complicated, I thought it was needlessly complicated enough as it was.

When I heard the prequel trilogy was coming out, I expected that it would open in the middle of the Clone Wars, with Senator Palpatine rising to power. It is Star Wars afterall - the very title demands a galaxy at war... not trade disputes or continual hopeless contrived and poorly-planned assassination attempts on a Senator from a rather small and insignificant planet.

You say army, but really its rather small, and if you watch TPM youll see that theyre employed for a lot of things other than security. its no different to having security guards at your company, expect the Federation is much much bigger in scale.

This makes sense. And I agree with you there. But what we saw at the end of Attack of the Clones was ridiculous. We have never seen that many ships in one of these movies. It looked more like Starship Troopers or Mars Attacks. The Imperial Fleet in the original Star Wars movies would have been half the size of that army.

Of course, I was a bit distracted by too many blaster shots all over the screen and a general lack of choreography, which led to confusion and mentally switching myself off shortly thereafter.

However, good point. Again, it is nice to have someone on the forum to debate with. In the past, I had to criticise Return of the Jedi to get good arguments (and boy did I get some serious debates!)... but no-one really argued much about the merits of the prequels.

Disclaimer - Having said that, I never started debates about Return of the Jedi just for a laugh. I really do have a lot of problems with it.

[Xombie]

As for what our two little Jedis in the desert could have done, let's review.

1) Slavery is wrong.
2) Slavery is legal on Tatooine
3) Jedi try and do the right thing
4) Tatooine is outside the rules of the Republic
5) Jedi are pretty much a law onto themselves anyway
6) Any idiot can see that leaving the kid's mom in slavery is only going to cause problems later.

Sooooo...

Watto: The slave is not for sale.
Any Given Jedi: Well, Watto. Here's the deal. We're going to buy her anyway. And we're going to pay more than the going rate so you make a nice profit.
Watto: Republic credits are no good here.
AGJ: sure watto. You have a spaceport on this planet and you have bars that cater to people from all over the universe but you don't have one fucking money changer or bank on this sandrock that can convert currency accepted on some trillion other planets in the galaxy into whatever colored rocks you call money. Tell me, just how does ANYONE from another planet do ANY business on this planet? Wait. Don't answer. It's not my problem. Here's my cash. You're welcome to stop me. But let me point out that even you recognize me as a badass and while, apparently, my mind tricks do not work on Hasidic marshmallow mosquito thingies, my lightsaber most assuredly will.

[Helena]

Hi there jariten, welcome to the forum. Nice to find someone who's prepared to make a case for the Prequels here, however much of a lost cause it may be Anyway, let me address some of your points.

"The Republic doesnt exist out here, we must survive on our own"

"Republic credits are no good out here I need something more real"

Like Xombie said, why on earth aren't there any banks on Tatooine? Think about it: the planet has a huge, galaxy-spanning political and economic entity right on its doorstep. The Republic has a unified currency which is used by every single one of its of citizens - trillions of people, presumably. It is not unlikely that some of these citizens will stop by Tatooine from time to time and want to buy stuff. Is it really plausible that no one would have come up with a way to exchange money?

And you still haven't explained why the Jedi don't go back for Anakin's mother, with something valuable to exchange for her if necessary.

how could they have hauled him off to prison when slavery was obviously rife on a planet that was totally out of their juristiction??

slashed him to pieces with a lightsabre?? youre joking here right??

About slashing him to pieces with a lightsaber, I agree. However, anything else depends on whether the Jedi regard only Republic territory as their 'jurisdiction'. They are not part of the Republic's government; as I said earlier, they could act unilaterally and send in their own task force to deal with the slave trade. It all comes down to whether they're prepared to simply ignore atrocities as long as they're committed outside the Republic's boundaries.

"Surely, the jedi should have had a problem with the whole cloning issue."

I think this is a good point, but it depends what you want to see from a Star Wars movie. ethical discussions?? i think theyd be several more complaints about it if Lucas took it down that road, and added further complications to an already rather complicated film. i think, in a fantasy environment like Star Wars, we have to accept the ethics of that particular environment as they are layed down to us. the clones are often reffered to as if they wernt much similar from the battle droids (indeed theyre just like the next step). i think we have to take them as everyone in the SW universe obviously does- fighters, nothing more.

There didn't have to be any ethical discussions. The entire problem could have been avoided if Lucas had made the clone army a creation of the Sith or other villains, rather than the Jedi - which is what most people assumed it would be in the first place. As it is, as Chefelf pointed out, we get the ridiculous title 'Attack of the Clones' when the clones are actually fighting for the Republic!

quite clearly what the Federation did in TPM was illegal, and if the Republic knew they wouldve been shut down (at least thats what everyone presumed would happen but they didnt count on Palpatine/Sidious obviously). You say army, but really its rather small, and if you watch TPM youll see that theyre employed for a lot of things other than security. its no different to having security guards at your company, expect the Federation is much much bigger in scale. the republic had the Jedi to protect them, as the opening crawl makes clear.

A droid army capable of taking over a planet - not to mention a vast fleet of ships - can hardly be regarded as 'small', let alone the equivalent of security guards. Imagine, say, Microsoft sending a private army to occupy a small third-world country! Security guards are one thing, but a private organisation should not have significant military capabilities - the Republic itself should have its own army/police to protect trade routes. And while we're about it, why the hell does an NGO like the Trade Federation have representatives in the Senate?

As for the Jedi protecting the Republic, they specifically state in AotC that 'we cannot fight a war for you', which makes it clear that they are not the equivalent of an army.

[Just your average movie goer]

Well spoken, Helena... and Xombie, your new dialogues crack me up every time.

while, apparently, my mind tricks do not work on Hasidic marshmallow mosquito thingies, my lightsaber most assuredly will.

I agree that slashing Watto to pieces with a lightsabre is a bit out of character for a Jedi... but I think a good bluff like that one would be more than reasonable in the circumstances.

There didn't have to be any ethical discussions. The entire problem could have been avoided if Lucas had made the clone army a creation of the Sith or other villains, rather than the Jedi - which is what most people assumed it would be in the first place. As it is, as Chefelf pointed out, we get the ridiculous title 'Attack of the Clones' when the clones are actually fighting for the Republic!

Ah, why couldn't I have worded my own post like that. That's exactly what I wanted to say earlier, Helena... except it's much more succinct and its wording is hundreds of times better. Very well put.

[jariten]

Just your average movie goer said-

"But they could have said "We're calling in a task force, Watto. And if you don't want to go down, then I suggest you release the boy and his mother to me.""

1. how could they have called in a task force with the Federation tracking them?? "Its too dangerous to call for help". Assuming you meant lie to Watto, I doubt that words alone would have got him to relinquish the slaves.

2. what could a task force have done?? Tattooine being independant from the Republic

"The Republics anti slavery laws..."

"The Republic doesnt exist out here, we must survive on our own"

"The problem with the whole plot device, from my perspective, was that the only reason it was there seemed to be George Lucas could have his pod race..."

the pod race was there primarily to establish Anakins skills and to solidify the idea in QGJ's mind that Anakin has Jedi traits. He builds a complex vechile at the age of 10, and is "the only human who can do it". on top of all that, he wins against near impossible odds. (building 3P0 is another method Lucas uses to show Anakin is special- not only gifted, but altruistic ie "its a protocol droid to help mom")

"... which was pretty much a visual gag, taken off Ben Hurr... "

thats true, but Lucas has never been afraid to show his influences in any of the SW films. each one is full of them. im not sure what you mean by "visual gag" bit though. elucidation please!

"When I heard the prequel trilogy was coming out, I expected that it would open in the middle of the Clone Wars, with Senator Palpatine rising to power. It is Star Wars afterall - the very title demands a galaxy at war... not trade disputes or continual hopeless contrived and poorly-planned assassination attempts on a Senator from a rather small and insignificant planet."

im with you on the first bit, I always assumed the prequels would be all about the clone wars. after seeing TPM and especially AOTC, the larger story of how a democracy becomes a dictatorship, and how a good person turns bad (at the risk of hopelessly oversimplifying SW) are at the core of the saga. TPM starts both these things in motion, as the first chapter in any story is supposed to do. it only makes logical sense to start things before the war, in order to see how the republic was "before the dark times". its Palpatines slow rise to power/creation of a war that i really love about these new films.

"But what we saw at the end of Attack of the Clones was ridiculous. We have never seen that many ships in one of these movies. "

I just assumed that the Republic would have a lot of ships at its disposal, although considering it doesnt have an army im not sure how that works. were the star destroyer type things built by the Republic or the Kaminions?? thats pretty unclear in the film (i really dislike that whole sequence actually)

xombie said-

"Jedi are pretty much a law onto themselves anyway"

they arnt, only Qui Gon Jinn is. Obi Wan seemed pretty adverse to his plans if you remember.


Helena said-

"Like Xombie said, why on earth aren't there any banks on Tatooine? Think about it: the planet has a huge, galaxy-spanning political and economic entity right on its doorstep. The Republic has a unified currency which is used by every single one of its of citizens - trillions of people, presumably. It is not unlikely that some of these citizens will stop by Tatooine from time to time and want to buy stuff. Is it really plausible that no one would have come up with a way to exchange money?"

this the way i see it. Tattooine being "small out of the way, poor" leaves it, with the exception of a few local backwater systems, totally isolated from the rest of the galaxy. how could they figure out a rate of exchange, in fact what would be the point of figuring out a rate of exchange in an environment where you need cold hard cash thats actually useful for something immediatly, as opposed to wire transfers or a beareu de change. honestly the place is full of pirates and smugglers and general low life. i doubt its civilised or even unified enough to come up with some fair rate of exchange that everyone can agree on. "the few places like this one are havens for those who dont wish to be found". Tattoine seems like a hang out for criminals and rejects, not bankers and buisinessmen. judging from what weve seen of Tattoine so far, it seems likely that youd get shot in the back if some disagreement about money came up. and with visators so few and far between, what would be the point of trying to raise such discussions?? only the hutts, presumably, and they seem to be pretty well off despite the absense of trading with the republic. the key line for me in all this is where watto says "republic credits are no good out here I need something more real".


"And you still haven't explained why the Jedi don't go back for Anakin's mother, with something valuable to exchange for her if necessary."

this is a difficult question, and a good point. it depends on how you think slavery is actually depicted in the SW universe. Watto doesnt seem to be that bad of a guy to me, in fact i think he cares about both Anakin and Shmi, and seems protective of them. they live in a decent house and neither of them look likely to drop dead from exhaustion any time soon. with that in mind, and also remembering that Anakin can have no contact with his mother during his training, if the Jedi came back to free Shmi (assuming that Watto would even let his last slave go, which I doubt) where would they take her? to come alien planet where she knows no one, and would effectivly be useless there anyway?? would she even want to go??

"son, my place is here my future is here"

"They are not part of the Republic's government; as I said earlier, they could act unilaterally and send in their own task force to deal with the slave trade. It all comes down to whether they're prepared to simply ignore atrocities as long as they're committed outside the Republic's boundaries."

another good point. first of all, I thought the Jedi did act under the juristiction of the Republic, and effectivly went on peacekeeping missions on their behalf (hence the whole Vallorum dispatching two Jedi knights bit in the opening crawl). as for the ignoring thing, I think Lucas wanted us to see the faults of the council right away, and I think this was another reason why he created QGJ, who is independant, caring and protective as opposed to the council who seem too regimented, close minded and balntently ignorant of whats happening. i think lucas wanted us to look at QGJ and wonder what might have happened if the council were more like him (and if he had trained Anakin). i think this ignorance, apathy towrds slavery is another facet of this (also, the ivory tower comparison with the jedi council building)


"There didn't have to be any ethical discussions. The entire problem could have been avoided if Lucas had made the clone army a creation of the Sith or other villains, rather than the Jedi - which is what most people assumed it would be in the first place. As it is, as Chefelf pointed out, we get the ridiculous title 'Attack of the Clones, when the clones are actually fighting for the Republic!"

I think the clones are meant to give the audience a sense of unease. even if someone hadnt seen the originals, the imperial march is an ominious theme (its played when the star destroyers are taking off at the end). then theres the origin of the clones (in a villain) then finally theres the title. the word "attack" is typically associated with bad guys, so why are the supposed good guys attacking?? it leaves you with a feeling that not all is right, and foreshadows their evolution into Palpatines own army.

"A droid army capable of taking over a planet - not to mention a vast fleet of ships - can hardly be regarded as 'small', let alone the equivalent of security guards. Imagine, say, Microsoft sending a private army to occupy a small third-world country! "

im not sure that comparison is entirly fair, considering the Republic is a vast network of planets and the Federation were able to do it undetected (which would be impossible on earth obviously). i think the droids are the equivilant of security guards, you just have to imagine the scale the company is working on. plus, like i said before they seem to be employed for all sorts of things. i think, in comparison to the size of the Republic, its fair to regard the Federations army as small. although this is just my take on it.

as for the representatives in the senate, its just another case of the ineffiency of the TPM era republic.

[Vwing]

All very good points jariten, I really can't strongly disagree with many of them. But one thing, it's Tatooine, not Tattoine, that really was bugging me.

[Just your average movie goer]

You raise many good points, Jariten. Too many for me to reply to at the moment. I agree with some, while I strongly disagree with others but I'd like to get back to you in more detail sometime.

But I can clarify this for you without too much time...

"... which was pretty much a visual gag, taken off Ben Hurr... "

thats true, but Lucas has never been afraid to show his influences in any of the SW films. each one is full of them. im not sure what you mean by "visual gag" bit though. elucidation please!

You are right. Just because I thought the whole podrace was a big joke, doesn't mean Lucas did. My mistake. Sometimes, I find it hard to remember that Lucas might be taking his work seriously.

[Helena]

1. how could they have called in a task force with the Federation tracking them?? "Its too dangerous to call for help". Assuming you meant lie to Watto, I doubt that words alone would have got him to relinquish the slaves.

2. what could a task force have done?? Tattooine being independant from the Republic

They could have called in a task force after the crisis was over - organised by the Jedi, not the Republic. And what they could do is find the people who are trading in slaves, announce that they are closing down their operations, and be prepared to fight anyone who tries to stop them. No, it's not a particlularly pleasant thing to have to do, but it's a choice between two evils - freeing the slaves by force (if necessary) or leaving them in slavery. Of course, the other choice would be to offer the slave-owners compensation, presuming they could find some kind of currency that people on Tatooine would accept

the pod race was there primarily to establish Anakins skills and to solidify the idea in QGJ's mind that Anakin has Jedi traits. He builds a complex vechile at the age of 10, and is "the only human who can do it". on top of all that, he wins against near impossible odds. (building 3P0 is another method Lucas uses to show Anakin is special- not only gifted, but altruistic ie "its a protocol droid to help mom")

Again, completely unnecessary. Obi-Wan states in the OT that Anakin was an excellent pilot when he first met him - and no, I simply do not accept that being a pod-racer is the same thing. Again, it comes down to Lucas's incomprehensible determination to show Anakin as a little kid in the prequels. And leaving aside the question of how a nine-year-old slave boy - even a gifted one- can build a fully-functioning artificially intelligent droid, why on earth would his mother need a protocol droid? Wouldn't a droid trained for things like housework and heavy lifting be more appropriate?

im with you on the first bit, I always assumed the prequels would be all about the clone wars. after seeing TPM and especially AOTC, the larger story of how a democracy becomes a dictatorship, and how a good person turns bad (at the risk of hopelessly oversimplifying SW) are at the core of the saga. TPM starts both these things in motion, as the first chapter in any story is supposed to do. it only makes logical sense to start things before the war, in order to see how the republic was "before the dark times". its Palpatines slow rise to power/creation of a war that i really love about these new films.

Most of what happens in TPM is either largely irrelevent to the rest of the trilogy, or unnecessary. The prequels should have started roughly where we were in AotC, with the Seperatist crisis or something similar, and had the Clone Wars break out at the end of the first film. Then the others could have handled the war itself and Anakin's fall to the Dark Side.

this the way i see it. Tattooine being "small out of the way, poor" leaves it, with the exception of a few local backwater systems, totally isolated from the rest of the galaxy. how could they figure out a rate of exchange, in fact what would be the point of figuring out a rate of exchange in an environment where you need cold hard cash thats actually useful for something immediatly, as opposed to wire transfers or a beareu de change. honestly the place is full of pirates and smugglers and general low life. i doubt its civilised or even unified enough to come up with some fair rate of exchange that everyone can agree on. "the few places like this one are havens for those who dont wish to be found". Tattoine seems like a hang out for criminals and rejects, not bankers and buisinessmen. judging from what weve seen of Tattoine so far, it seems likely that youd get shot in the back if some disagreement about money came up. and with visators so few and far between, what would be the point of trying to raise such discussions?? only the hutts, presumably, and they seem to be pretty well off despite the absense of trading with the republic. the key line for me in all this is where watto says "republic credits are no good out here I need something more real".

This is just completely unrealistic, no two ways about it. Try going to any small, poor and backwards third-world country with a handful of US dollars and see if you have any problems changing money - on the black market, if not through legal channels. And Tatooine can't be that isolated and out-of-the-way, since we see a spaceport there in ANH.

this is a difficult question, and a good point. it depends on how you think slavery is actually depicted in the SW universe. Watto doesnt seem to be that bad of a guy to me, in fact i think he cares about both Anakin and Shmi, and seems protective of them. they live in a decent house and neither of them look likely to drop dead from exhaustion any time soon. with that in mind, and also remembering that Anakin can have no contact with his mother during his training, if the Jedi came back to free Shmi (assuming that Watto would even let his last slave go, which I doubt) where would they take her? to come alien planet where she knows no one, and would effectivly be useless there anyway?? would she even want to go??

They could at least have asked her if she wanted to go, don't you think? She doesn't exactly sound happy about being a slave when Qui-Gon asks her about it. And even if Watto treated her well enough that she was willing to remain a slave, how was she to know she wouldn't be sold to a much harsher master later on? As for finding her somewhere to live, either on Tatooine or some other planet, this should have been no problem - the government of Naboo would surely have fronted the cash, given that Anakin had just saved the planet.

another good point. first of all, I thought the Jedi did act under the juristiction of the Republic, and effectivly went on peacekeeping missions on their behalf (hence the whole Vallorum dispatching two Jedi knights bit in the opening crawl).

It's clear that the Jedi are affiliated with the Republic and work on its behalf, but it is equally clear that they aren't actually part of the government ('We cannot fight a war for you', etc.) Presumably they have the capacity to act independently.

as for the ignoring thing, I think Lucas wanted us to see the faults of the council right away, and I think this was another reason why he created QGJ, who is independant, caring and protective as opposed to the council who seem too regimented, close minded and balntently ignorant of whats happening. i think lucas wanted us to look at QGJ and wonder what might have happened if the council were more like him (and if he had trained Anakin). i think this ignorance, apathy towrds slavery is another facet of this (also, the ivory tower comparison with the jedi council building)

Hang on a minute - at what point do we actually see any of this? At no point does Qui-Gon or anyone else suggest trying to free the slaves, and we certainly don't see him arguing with the Council over it - for that matter, on the only issue where we do see them arguing (Anakin's training), the Council turn out to be right! It's kind of you to make up excuses on Lucas's behalf, but he really doesn't deserve it.

I think the clones are meant to give the audience a sense of unease. even if someone hadnt seen the originals, the imperial march is an ominious theme (its played when the star destroyers are taking off at the end). then theres the origin of the clones (in a villain) then finally theres the title. the word "attack" is typically associated with bad guys, so why are the supposed good guys attacking?? it leaves you with a feeling that not all is right, and foreshadows their evolution into Palpatines own army.

And you don't think the clones would have given anyone a 'sense of unease' if we'd seen the villians creating them instead? Again, you're just making excuses for Lucas - it's a stupid idea and a stupid title. Especially since the clones weren't 'attacking' anyone - they were defending the Jedi against Dooku's army.

im not sure that comparison is entirly fair, considering the Republic is a vast network of planets and the Federation were able to do it undetected (which would be impossible on earth obviously). i think the droids are the equivilant of security guards, you just have to imagine the scale the company is working on. plus, like i said before they seem to be employed for all sorts of things. i think, in comparison to the size of the Republic, its fair to regard the Federations army as small. although this is just my take on it.

You're missing my point a little - no private organisation on Earth would be able to take over a country because they simply don't have that kind of military capacity, full stop. Security guards are not the same thing as soldiers, warplanes and heavy artillery. And you're saying on the one hand that the droid army was constructed under the Republic's radar, and on the other that it consisted of the TF's 'security guards' - so which is it?If they are 'security guards', and the Trade Federation have brought their entire contingent over to Naboo, who is protecting their operations in the rest of the galaxy?

as for the representatives in the senate, its just another case of the ineffiency of the TPM era republic.

As I pointed out in another thread, if the Republic follows such patently ridiculous procedures - which are presumably long-standing, and not just a product of the TPM era - then how on earth has it managed to survive for a thousand generations?